Let's Get Metaphysical Baby

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Originally Posted by randerizer

You would rather invent a purpose for living? The fact is, you ARE living. But you ARE living by CHOICE.

But you want to know about ethics and morality and virtue? Start by reading the thread below.
http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39197

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I dont have to invent it when I feel the power of it in my life.

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Originally Posted by randerizer

You would rather invent a purpose for living? The fact is, you ARE living. But you ARE living by CHOICE. I do not pretend to invent a construct for the purpose of my life, as defined by others. The purpose of my life is to live.

But you want to know about ethics and morality and virtue? Start by reading the thread below.
http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39197

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So basically, we are to just live. That is all I get from it. I dont have to wonder about how I got here or anything. That is basically all I get from you and Guisslap. You dont worry about how existence got here because it just is. Our purpose is to just live. Once again, I can easily see how we could easily get back to nihilism here because all that you hold as value and purpose seems very empty to me.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I dont have to invent it when I feel the power of it in my life.

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What is your purpose of living then, and what reality or existence is it grounded in? If it's not grounded in reality, it an invented concept.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

So basically, we are to just live. That is all I get from it. I dont have to wonder about how I got here or anything. That is basically all I get from you and Guisslap. You dont worry about how existence got here because it just is. Our purpose is to just live. Once again, I can easily see how we could easily get back to nihilism here because all that you hold as value and purpose seems very empty to me.

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How do you get back to nihilism if you are trying to live? I want to live, so I value all that goes into me living, from my senses to my ability to think to my ability to do work to my ability to enjoy the fruits of my work.

Why would you wonder how you got here? It's a problem without a philosophical base, without a philosophical answer. You DID NOT get here by being conceived by a non-existent consciousness.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I guess what I am missing from you guys/Rand is Purpose. I know that was one of Rand's big three, but I see her view of Reason and Purpose almost working against each other. If all you believe is what you see on this Earth, then what is our purpose here? I dont get a purpose from y'all that is worth living for. Is it just to have "integrity" while on Earth? To say you were more rational than everybody else? Whippie.

Why did Rand despise Kant so much? Was it mostly over his "Critique of Human Reason"? He concluded that we could never really disprove or prove God, while Rand thought it was evident that there was no God. I think Kant was a little more in tune with the fallibility of human reason and nature, whereas I believe Rand has a lot of arrogance of what humans are. I guess if you only thought that the world is what we can sense and nothing else, you probably would think that humans were supreme.

I am still missing our purpose in Rand's world.

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The point is that there is no purpose for being here, but we are here. There is no purpose behind existence. To ask what the purpose is assumes that there was CHOICE to have existence or nonexistence. To ask "what is the purpose of existence?" assumes that there is or must be, in fact, a purpose. Reason doesn't require there to be a purpose for existence since reason would lead one to recognize the axiom of existence.

However, since we exist, each individual faces the decision on whether he want to continue to live or to die.

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Originally Posted by randerizer

What is your purpose of living then, and what reality or existence is it grounded in? If it's not grounded in reality, it an invented concept.

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My purpose is serving God and leading others to him. My evidence is my life and how it has changed since he came into it.

Sure, you will write it off as randomness or me tricking myself into believing he has answered prayers, performed miracles, etc. and that is fine. I chose to believe through my personal experiences that His power is real in my life.

I know one thing, Rand and her followers sure are interested in discrediting every other philosophy, which I find funny since they believe in laissez faire politics, in which one man defines for himself what is good, but only within reason I guess. I guess that is why many thought of her as being tyrannical in her life time over the people she knew. Hmm, it just seems fairly hypocritical. You can only be laissez faire, as long as you live in this box that I define.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I know one thing, Rand and her followers sure are interested in discrediting every other philosophy, which I find funny since they believe in laissez faire politics, in which one man defines for himself what is good, but only within reason I guess. I guess that is why many thought of her as being tyrannical in her life time over the people she knew. Hmm, it just seems fairly hypocritical. You can only be laissez faire, as long as you live in this box that I define.

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I'll let Guisslap answer the rest of this, as I've got a meeting in 2 minutes.

But to answer this, I would have no problem with any other philosophy or religion if it was not used to affect MY life. If you want to create a false sense of something to make you feel you have something more important to do than live, do it. It is certainly your choice, and while you're not making the rational, objective choice, it's still your choice.

My purpose in attacking religion and other philosophies is to destruct their validity for use as political concepts that take my property. If you use your ideas in a way that affects me, I do have a reason to break those ideas down.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I know one thing, Rand and her followers sure are interested in discrediting every other philosophy, which I find funny since they believe in laissez faire politics, in which one man defines for himself what is good, but only within reason I guess. I guess that is why many thought of her as being tyrannical in her life time over the people she knew. Hmm, it just seems fairly hypocritical. You can only be laissez faire, as long as you live in this box that I define.

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Every philosophy that does not embrace relativism must discredit conflicting philosophies. Politics are built on ethics which are built on metaphysics and epistemology. Politics don't dictate metaphysics and epsitemology. You have reversed the order. L-F capitalism is virtuous BECAUSE OF objectivits metaphysics and epistemology.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

My purpose is serving God and leading others to him. My evidence is my life and how it has changed since he came into it.

Sure, you will write it off as randomness or me tricking myself into believing he has answered prayers, performed miracles, etc. and that is fine. I chose to believe through my personal experiences that His power is real in my life.

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A person chooses to believe what they want to believe whether the person chooses to champion REASON, EMOTION, or something else.

I still am not sure of the purpose. I guess purpose definies itself to you guys. It seems like nothing that has happened before even matters to you guys. If you dont care how we got here and all that is is now, then why do you waste time looking up philosophies by people that are dead? Why do we even record history? You guys shouldnt be a fan of that either, seems to me. Guess what? We are all going to be history one day and no one is giong to care so this all seems useless and in vain. From Rand's philosophy, we should only care about the here and now and that is the only thing that matters. When the here and now is gone, we will be gone and no one will care. It all seems rather nihilistic to me in the end.

Why does Rand hate Kant again?

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I still am not sure of the purpose. I guess purpose definies itself to you guys. It seems like nothing that has happened before even matters to you guys. If you dont care how we got here and all that is is now, then why do you waste time looking up philosophies by people that are dead? Why do we even record history? You guys shouldnt be a fan of that either, seems to me. Guess what? We are all going to be history one day and no one is giong to care so this all seems useless and in vain. From Rand's philosophy, we should only care about the here and now and that is the only thing that matters. When the here and now is gone, we will be gone and no one will care. It all seems rather nihilistic to me in the end.

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Now you are being nonsensical. Should I disregard Newton or Galileo? No, but I should not necessarily believe them at face value. I should do the experiment myself.

I have no idea why you are stuck on the idea that what people think in the future impacts your actions NOW. We're going to be history one day regardless... A false hope for something eternal is just a false hope.

Are you telling me that you do not find value in YOURSELF?

I had a funny internal link turn to the nihilism argument you are making, which involves the butterfly effect and the destruction of potential minds in the future, but I'll leave it out as it would only add confusion.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

Why does Rand hate Kant again?

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for a start, a priori knowledge is a false construct
secondly, the categorical imperative is misapplied

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Originally Posted by randerizer

Now you are being nonsensical. Should I disregard Newton or Galileo? No, but I should not necessarily believe them at face value. I should do the experiment myself.

I have no idea why you are stuck on the idea that what people think in the future impacts your actions NOW. We're going to be history one day regardless... A false hope for something eternal is just a false hope.

Are you telling me that you do not find value in YOURSELF?

I had a funny internal link turn to the nihilism argument you are making, which involves the butterfly effect and the destruction of potential minds in the future, but I'll leave it out as it would only add confusion.


for a start, a priori knowledge is a false construct
secondly, the categorical imperative is misapplied

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Rand's philosophy just makes it seem like we are just here to be here, and that just seems boring to me. I would rather believe in an arbitrage, call it crazy, nonsensical, or irrational, I dont care. I understand your points, but through my personal conviction, they just dont stick with me. It has been fun learning about Rand's philosophy, and it does have some good aspects. It just seems like all we do is just live to survive just to end up dying, dont buy it. I believe in a Greater Purpose.

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Originally Posted by dhussdawg

Rand's philosophy just makes it seem like we are just here to be here, and that just seems boring to me. I would rather believe in an arbitrage, call it crazy, nonsensical, or irrational, I dont care. I understand your points, but through my personal conviction, they just dont stick with me. It has been fun learning about Rand's philosophy, and it does have some good aspects. It just seems like all we do is just live to survive just to end up dying, dont buy it. I believe in a Greater Purpose.

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Then why believe in God, when you could instead believe in Harry Potter, Hobbits, Jaba the Hutt, Superman, or any other creations?

Objectivism is not an ivory tower philosophy with no real value in the real world. I think it is very much "a philosophy of living."

If you are still subverting reason with emotional blinders, there is probably no way to make you see clearly. But, not meaning to be harsh, let me say this - if you cannot find value in YOURSELF, how can anyone possibly expect ME to find value in YOU? You choose denegrate yourself below a fanciful God and below the future inhabitants of this earth at your own expense, and I will never see how I'm responsible maintaining a life of no value. Just something to think about as you translate your emotions into any ethics.

Hey huss, I didn't realize that randerizer was taking care of you.

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Originally Posted by randerizer

Then why believe in God, when you could instead believe in Harry Potter, Hobbits, Jaba the Hutt, Superman, or any other creations?

Objectivism is not an ivory tower philosophy with no real value in the real world. I think it is very much "a philosophy of living."

If you are still subverting reason with emotional blinders, there is probably no way to make you see clearly. But, not meaning to be harsh, let me say this - if you cannot find value in YOURSELF, how can anyone possibly expect ME to find value in YOU? You choose denegrate yourself below a fanciful God and below the future inhabitants of this earth at your own expense, and I will never see how I'm responsible maintaining a life of no value. Just something to think about as you translate your emotions into any ethics.

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I'm sure it was addressed on here, but can you point me to where the purpose of existing was addressed in this discussion? I really haven't been following too closely and haven't the time to read through all the pages of this. The reason I'm wondering is because I'm trying to figure out why you feel as though anyone thinks they are worried about YOU finding value in anyone else. I guarantee you that a Christian certainly doesn't care what value YOU place on his existence. Also, how do you come to the conclusion that a person who believes in God doesn't find value in himself?