And, Dawg80, that is why Shep left FoxNews. He was sick of all the lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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And, Dawg80, that is why Shep left FoxNews. He was sick of all the lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
So, all the audio directly from Psaki, Biden, and his advisors is wrong or doctored? Cause that’s what I listened to, not the opinions of any propaganda anchor on any network.
Biden did say that they were prepared for any contingency... guess not..Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
That's only part of the equation, and I agree BTW.. the other part is turning loose tens of thousands of covid positive people into the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
How come when you quoted Biden’s remarks you misquote it as reported from right wing sources then?Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Sorry, I didn’t print the quote verbatim from the presser where BIDEN was speaking!
Also, the agreement was dependent on the Taliban reaching out to the Afghan government to reach a peace agreement. I would argue that an attack on the Afghans was a violation. But that’s just common sense.
No it wasn’t. Read the agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Also, Biden admitted again that his handlers gave him a list of who he was allowed to call on. No matter what, your defense of a man who can’t govern because he has full blown Dementia is absolutely astounding.
He also went off the list at the end. So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Nebraska law review…….
US-Taliban Peace Agreement
In contrast to Obama’s blunt strategy to use the stick of increased military might to force the Taliban to negotiate peace, the Trump strategy was a mixture of firm resolve, persuasion, and that ever-unpredictable element of good timing. Whatever the mixture of said ingredients, Trump was able to get the Taliban and the Afghan government to sign a “condition based” peace deal on February 28, 2020.[43] For the United States and its coalition partners, the peace plan was directly tied to a “phased withdrawal” of American forces to be completed, if all went well, within a mere 14 months—May 2021. For their part, the Taliban would cease armed attacks, pledge to shun terror groups, and coexist with the current government in Afghanistan.
The peace deal contains classified and unclassified portions and the central themes of the agreement are: (1) the prevention of future threats against the United States and its allies from terror groups operating from Afghanistan soil; (2) the withdrawal of all American and coalition forces from Afghanistan; and (3) a commitment from the Taliban towards an intra-Afghan negotiation that would include a permanent ceasefire.[46] The preface of the peace agreement is as follows:
A comprehensive peace agreement is made of four parts:
1. Guarantees and enforcement mechanisms that will prevent the use of the soil of Afghanistan by any group or individual against the security of the United States and its allies.
2. Guarantees, enforcement mechanisms, and announcement of a timeline for the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan.
3. After the announcement of guarantees for a complete withdrawal of foreign forces and timeline in the presence of international witnesses, and guarantees and the announcement in the presence of international witnesses that Afghan soil will not be used against the security of the United States and its allies, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban[47] will start intra-Afghan negotiations with Afghan sides on March 10, 2020, which corresponds to Rajab 15, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Hoot 20, 1398 on the Hijri Solar calendar.
4. A permanent and comprehensive ceasefire will be an item on the agenda of the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations. The participants of intra-Afghan negotiations will discuss the date and modalities of a permanent and comprehensive ceasefire, including joint implementation mechanisms, which will be announced along with the completion and agreement over the future political roadmap of Afghanistan.
Seems to me the Taliban never even considered doing what was required for the US to do part 1 of 4 above.
Read the agreement. It isn’t that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
There are 13 reasons why that agreement is void.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
He said it was unlikely they would gain control, and not a sure thing they ever would.
You seem to be the confused one.
They didn’t agree to a ceasefire.
No he didn’t. He said the opposite. He said it was unlikely that the Afghans would run the country to the exclusion of the Taliban.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Send a link to the agreement. No matter how I search it, I can’t find it.
Biden:Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
The Afghan government and leadership has to come together. They clearly have the capacity to sustain the government in place. The question is: Will they generate the kind of cohesion to do it? It’s not a question of whether they have the capacity. They have the capacity. They have the forces. They have the equipment. The question is: Will they do it?
And I want to make clear what I made clear to Ghani: that we are not going just sus- — walk away and not sustain their ability to maintain that force. We are. We’re going to also work to make sure we help them in terms of everything from food necessities and other things in — in the region. But — but, there’s not a conclusion that, in fact, they cannot defeat the Taliban.
I believe the only way there’s going to be — this is now Joe Biden, not the intelligence community — the only way there’s ultimately going to be peace and security in Afghanistan is that they work out a modus vivendi with the Taliban and they make a judgment as to how they can make peace.
And the likelihood there’s going to be one unified government in Afghanistan controlling the whole country is highly unlikely.
So, as I read the agreement, I noticed several enumerated points in parts 2 and 3 which were not and would not be met by the Taliban. Agreement void.
The agreement is a straw man. Nothing excuses the way Biden conducted this withdrawal, and our stuff is still our stuff and we can destroy it if we please.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Which ones and how specifically?Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
The agreement is why we had to choose between deploying new troops into the region and prolong the war and withdraw when we did.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Part 2 numbers 1-3 are obvious. They attacked Afghan forces we were working with. They did not discourage any tribe from attacking anyone, unless you have communications that price otherwise. And it was reported that the Taliban has been growing stronger and recruiting in spite of the directive not not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
It didn’t say they couldn’t attack Afghan forces. In fact, it implied that was explicitly not part of the deal by saying that the talk of a ceasefire would be part of a future agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Try again.
And it didn’t say the Taliban couldn’t grow stronger or recruit. It says the Taliban will prevent other groups from doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
So, they were not US allies or friendlies? Wow.
Feeling less satisfied with Trump’s deal after reading it?
When...maybe. How.. Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
There was supposed to be a roadmap coming from the Afghan negotiations. Maybe you can post that.
But if you think Biden has handled this properly, I guess you have that right.
Technically Afghanistan is not an ally and it wouldn’t make sense to interpret them as one under this agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile..../idUSKBN22R2TS
Quote:
U.S. Special Representative Zalmay Khalilzad, architect of the deal here advocated by Republican President Donald Trump, acknowledged it did not bar attacks on Afghans and said it would be best if both sides began talks and efforts to combat such attacks while U.S. forces are still there.
"The agreement does not specifically (call) for them not to attack Afghan forces," Khalilzad told reporters on Friday. However, he said the Taliban committed to reducing violence and that a ceasefire would be among the first topics in intra-Afghan negotiations.
I don’t think he had good options. Less bad? Maybe. We won’t know the counterfactual.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Shep says Biden is a walking cluster f - - k.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Just when you think NO WAY can the Bidenites eff it up worse....they do! [heavy sigh]
Praque, Czech Republic, newspaper editorial nailed it. Said the US can survive a fool like Biden, but may not survive the multitude of fools who made him president.
Yep, the world knows!
Wow very damning report by the Washington Post of all places...
Taliban Offered Biden Control of Kabul, but He Declined
Washington Post reports...
The chaos in Afghanistan could have reportedly been avoided altogether if President Joe Biden had accepted the Taliban’s initial offer for the U.S. to have full control of Kabul and the airport.
According to a report from the Washington Post, as the Taliban began taking control of Afghanistan, senior U.S. military leaders met with Taliban political leader Abdul Ghani Baradar in Doha, Qatar, where an offer was made for the United States to have control of Kabul until all U.S. troops had withdrawn; the offer was declined.
This is not incompetence, but intentional.
LINK /
How many more troops would we have had to deploy back to Afghanistan to secure Kabul? And at what risk?
None of they had been left there until all the civilians were out. You know, the common sense way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
The State department has cautioned folks about going to Afghanistan for years and has been urging Americans to leave Afghanistan since March.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Wow!
Richard Engle, NBC's chief foreign correspondent, has blasted Biden for his stupid policy/handling in Afghanistan. Biden's already very small circle of supporters is shrinking. Pretty soon Biden will have just one delusional supporter left...yes, our very own Goosey.
You know it's bad for a Dem when even the lamestream media decide to actually report the truth for a change.
Really undercuts the right wing narrative about the mainstream media, right? They have never been as biased as you guys claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Such exceptions prove the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Where was your "unbiased" lamestream media during Trump's term and during the 2020 election? I'll tell you where, right where they usually are, smack dab in the middle of lying.
Are you sure they were lying? I remember that Trump was the one lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Biden, Milley, Circle Back Jen, lie daily.. This whole Afghan thing has been such a cluster that even the Biased (yes they are still biased) MSM can't cover for this admin any more.. Only people like you who refuse to believe what is going on and are in complete denial continue to support this completely incompetent administration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
I understand what is going on and how we got here. Sounds like you guys never knew or somehow forgot.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDog
We can play Monday morning QB about how things could have been done differently, but different-looking chaos is still chaos. There were no good options. Was their a less bad one?
Yes, getting our resources and people out BEFORE the troops is military strategy 101.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
He already shot down my comment to the same. Apparently, people who go there on mission work and to provide humanitarian aid, even during a dangerous time, are not worth Biden’s time and energy to wait and save.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
The people were asked to leave in March. The resources were given/sold to the Afghan army. Not ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Try again.
Just as I said...Biden is down to one delusional supporter: Goosey.
This is too easy.
Lies. Try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Facts that you won’t accept. That is your problem, not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
You don't just get to lie about the facts. We all know how screwed up you are and that it is driven by your hate for Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
You haven’t refuted any of the facts I stated. I assume that means you couldn’t even find a right wing source willing to say otherwise?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Common sense is lost on you people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Had they been WARNED to leave back in March they would have.
The did not sell or give away our billions in military resources.
YOU are the one that needs to prove these lies. Hearing it on CNN is not proof.
What you are ignoring is that the whole thing was a state department (presidential) decision and totally against what his military advisors were telling him to do.
I haven’t seen any of CNN’s coverage. I would bet they are critical.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...nistan/619925/
Blinken:
“Particularly given the security situation in Afghanistan, for many years we have urged Americans not to travel there. We’ve repeatedly asked Americans who are in Afghanistan to enroll. And since March of this year, we’ve sent 19 separate messages to Americans enrolled with the embassy in Kabul, encouraging and then urging them to leave the country. We’ve amplified those direct messages on the State Department website and on social media. We even made clear that we would help pay for their repatriation, and we’ve provided multiple communication channels for Americans to contact us if they’re in Afghanistan and want help in leaving.“
Again, facts.
As usual, Guisslapp comes here to spout the dem talking points, while claiming to be high-taxes, mandate loving libertarian (?????).Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
I bet in his HS yearbook, he was voted "mot likely to be influenced by nonsensical propaganda".
Most libertarians would agree with the withdrawal from Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Enrolling would have gotten their name and location given to the Taliban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Heck, they were charging two grand for the trip AFTER they botched the whole withdrawal, until the outcry caused them to rethink that stupidity.
Facts.
I agree with leaving. I disagree with the way the senile piece of sh&% has engineered it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Ya know, like agree with Americans having children, but I am against raping women to do it.
That is actually not a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
The longer we stay, the more terrorist attacks our troops face. Biden explained from the beginning that was the basis for the expedited nature of this operation.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Wow!Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
We'd be speaking Japanese or German had you and Biden been running things back in the 40s.
After 20 years it is beyond clear that the Afghans can’t maintain their own security without us being there,Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
No one, I repeat, no one is disputing that. However, the way it was done makes as much sense as traveling from Ruston to Shreveport by driving to Atlanta and flying back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
If all roads were closed to west bound traffic, it might be your best plan as bad as it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Yet we were willing to just abandon everything at the drop of a hat and expect them to maintain OUR security as we left. Your statement is further proof of the complete incompetence of senile Joe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Bet someone is shredding documents as this unfolds. Kinda like "fast and furious" that got border patrol officers murdered.
And you will buy whatever they're selling.
Yes, we HAD to screw up the entire withdrawal because that was our ONLY plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
That's the second withdrawal Biden has blown....the first gave us Hunter.
BINGO!!! Give Goosey a cookie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
This is exactly the reason I, and Trump, as it turned out, advocated being proactive, bringing in, temporarily, additional troops and stepping up air combat patrols and drone coverage and engaging in seek and destroy missions. Throw up a ring around Kabul and that airbase some military folks begged Biden to secure, and engage in an orderly withdrawal.
Instead...[drum roll please]...the Bidenites first trusted that this statement would not be true, WRONG!, and compounded the mistake by then agreeing to turn airport security over to our sworn enemy.
There ya go, Goosey, it was an accident, but you just stumbled into the TRUTH everyone else in the world has been screaming about. Now, Biden may have lost the last person on the planet who actually believed he was doing a good job. It's unanimous now.
19 messages is, at best, an exaggeration. At no point did State ever tell anybody to leave. Asking or any other version of that action was the wrong action.
Stepping up troops is the opposite of deal Trump negotiated, so don’t think he would have done that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
You can’t force people to leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
It wasn’t the drop of a hat. So your arguing against an alternate reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
You are hung up on this leftist lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Trump scrapped his own deal almost immediately when the rag heads broke the agreement immediately. He didn't beg them not to do it again he bombed their ass.
So stop with the "Trump's deal" crap.
I mean Trump negotiated Biden’s drawn down and an even faster exit. He also negotiated to release thousands of Taliban fighters. What exactly did he do the last 4 years to prepare to a “better” handover of power? You guys are lost as the day is long.
What part of the deal did they break? We have already been through this. You guys never understood the deal he negotiated.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
He scrapped the deal you keep referring to. He bombed them after that. Stop ignoring the true facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
When was that? So you support more war?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
So, just had an alert pop up that the last flight just left Kabul. Reportedly, no Americans were on the flight. Now, Biden says we will get the rest of our people back through diplomatic means. Could any author possibly write a more outlandish fictitious story than this reality?
On Sunday, about 250 Americans remained in Afghanistan and were seeking to leave the country, according to a State Department spokesperson, who said that assistance was being coordinated “around the clock for this group.” The official said that those Americans might already be at the airport in Kabul or “in the process of being guided there, and all have information on how to reach us.”Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
The State Department was also in touch Sunday with about 280 additional people who identified themselves as Americans but were either undecided about leaving Afghanistan or said that they did not intend to leave.
February 29,2020Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Days later, the rag heads hit Afghan security forces with dozens of attacks.
Trump's responds with air strikes... yeah that deal was scrapped almost immediately.
I support protecting our citizens not leaving them for dead.
Ripped it up? Hardly. Why then did Trump keep to his drawdown targets and the release of Taliban prisoners?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
That happened March 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/ti...m-afghanistan/
So...now every US soldier, and I assume our allies (Brits and French) too, have left Afghanistan. And, a day early too. I hope and pray this works out, by some miracle. When it comes to such matters I do not care about who might score political points, I only care about America and Americans (and our loyal allies too).
The die has been cast and we'll see in the next 24-48 hours or so, and the weeks ahead, if Biden will get credit or blame. I truly hope it is credit. The alternative is unacceptable.
I agree with the withdrawal from Afghanistan.. I would dare say others here do too.. It was how the withdrawal was executed is the issue. It was a cluster.. Very embarrassing for the largest, most sophisticated, and most technical, and trained military in the world.. wouldn't you say?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Circle back Jen said today that they are not planning any resignations from generals or staff related to this debacle.. In other words.. no one will be held accountable for this...Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
So this admin after 8 months in office, couldn't renegotiate "Trumps deal" or plan and execute a better withdrawal than what took place? Bush Jr. in 4 months started and completed the move of all of the US military (tanks, planes, troops, support, etc.) required for the invasion of Kuwait and Iraq. Biden admin couldn't plan and execute an evacuation in double that time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Trump had 4 years to get us out. Biden got it done in 8 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDog
And no, we weren’t exactly in a strong position to renegotiate unless we were willing to deploy more troops and extend the war. Trump left 2500 troops in the area, release more than that in Taliban fighters, and left the Taliban in the strongest position in over a decade.
Obama had 8 years, nearly doubled our deployment to Afghanistan, and ordered a complete withdrawal in 2016. The withdrawal, of course, never happened. I know he, allegedly, wasn’t your guy, but why so tough on Trump when Obama had twice as long and all he did was bolster our forces in Afghanistan to almost 100,000?
It’s obvious there is more to it than, “we’re just going to leave.” Something obviously wasn’t right or we, hopefully, would have been able to leave some time between 2002 and 2020. It’s overly simplistic, but there is a reason abuses women don’t leave, smokers can’t quit, and drunks can’t put down the bottle. Sometimes there is more to it. Biden seems to have said, “screw the details and backlash, we’re out.” It feels like the only way the leader of the free world and the greatest military power on the planet could goof this is because it was intentional. Do I believe that? Not really, but deliberate screwing up is about equal to the incompetence on display as far as the stupid scale is concerned.
Obama deserves the criticism too. I never voted for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Trump left Biden two choices - bring in more troops or get the hell out as fast as you can. Staying longer with the 2500 troops we had we the worst option and just risked our troops becoming targets in an increasingly insecure area. There really weren’t any good options, particularly if you believe that our effort to prop up our preferred government would ultimately fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
The reason that no one left is that it is BAD to leave a battlefield you haven’t conquered. Sometimes pursuing the futile seems like a better option that accepting the bad outcome, but that is exactly what led to this war lasting 20 years. Like we forgot the lesson of Vietnam.
You started a defense thread for him and seemed to love being an Obama lover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
A “defense thread” for him? You have it backwards. I am the one that started the thread calling him the worst POTUS ever. But, of course, that seems pretty silly since we had Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
…we all knew what you were doing. You were the biggest ever Obama fan. Read your own postsQuote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
How ‘bout that watch check by the adult idiot?
You are the one that clearly needs to read them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showt...President-Ever
What sort of long game do you think I was playing in 2009?
He is half black. You loved him for that. It must have helped ease your white guilt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
What decade does Sleepy's think he is in? If ANY high-profile conservative committed a gaffe this bad, they would be canceled within 10 minutes.
Joe Biden Refers to Black Senior Adviser Cedric Richmond as 'Boy' | Conservative Brief
I can't disclose my sources, even though they don't read this forum and would probably never find out; still I won't do it. Anyway, I have it on good authority that what Trump put out as his plan was not his plan. That was published to fool our enemies into thinking we would do one thing, essentially what Biden did, but do something else, namely temporarily insert an overwhelming force to properly extricate ourselves, and REAL allies, from that place.
YES! this same source said Trump was waiting to his second term in case it didn't totally work out as planned and that was a political decision. My source asked, "Can you blame him?" The lamestream media and the goofy pelosi-led congress was ready to attack him for anything and everything. If treated fairly Trump would have implemented a withdrawal from Afghanistan his first year in office. Now, anyone can criticize that for his acting based on political concerns, but that is the reality he, and thus we, have to deal with. You will note that Trump maneuvered us into a position where not a single US soldier was harmed for the last 18 months of his tenure. That was not by accident, but part of the plan to keep our people out of harm's way until we (he) was ready to implement his withdrawal plan, which, YES! would have come with some risks.
Saw a poll that says 84% of Americans agree with us getting out of Afghanistan and a like % think Biden bungled it. Not sure who the 16% are wanting us to remain....maybe employees of defense contractors. So, there is a definite consensus on us getting out of there. Could have/should have been managed better.
And now! here we go again, the Bidenites have muffed the evacuation of Afghans. Of the 2,000 released in Wisconsin, none could speak English, yet we were told they were translators who worked with us! Not often that professional translators need a translator. Another cluster f - - k by the Biden admin.
I saw a few articles about the refugees coming to Wisconsin. No reference to what languages they speak. However, it is not unreasonable to think at least a couple of them would speak English because they supposedly worked so closely with US military.
This seems like the simplest vetting process ever. “Okay, Ameed, you say that Colonel Johnson was the leader you worked with in Afghanistan. Colonel, do you recognize this man as your interpreter?”
Biden called Cedric Richmond (black senior advisor) "my boy." Frankly, I don't care...but we all know what would be happening right now if a Repub had made this gaffe.
Biden has been a racist for 45 years. He can’t change his stripes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
I don't understand why "boy" is 'racist' -- In casual conversation I use the word "boy" all the time..."OH BOY" or "BOY-HOWDY" or "That's my BOY!" -- i certainly mean no disrespect by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by glm47
Guess I'm not very woke.