President Trump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhythmDawg

We can't. That's exactly my point. Thus the reason why people should not draw politically motivated conclusions. There are plenty of decisions that presidents have made that looked awful...but years later when details and context were provided, people's opinions changed.

Furthermore, every single president makes mistakes in their actions and speech, every single one lies to the people intentionally or unintentionally, every president keeps information from the people. Every president's transition into their first term is disorganized. Trump's is no different, for better or worse...it is simply being politicized and publicized more than in the past.

---

How do you propose we should evaluate politicians since so much is unknown for years and years after they're out of public life?

Trump's chaos is not in the range of normal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Trump's chaos is not in the range of normal.

---

What chaos? The only difference I see is that he is tweeting they type of stuff that previous presidents have said behind closed doors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

How do you propose we should evaluate politicians since so much is unknown for years and years after they're out of public life?

---

Great question. I haven't figured it out yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhythmDawg

What chaos? The only difference I see is that he is tweeting they type of stuff that previous presidents have said behind closed doors.

---

Do you watch foxnews? Honest question.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Self destructive behavior is a hallmark trait of NPD. Our POTUS checks all the boxes.

---

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...nterpret-trump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Do you watch foxnews? Honest question.

---

some. Why? Do you watch CNN and MSNBC?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

A feeble-minded soccer watcher

---

"Feeble-minded soccer watcher" is a redundancy.:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhythmDawg

some. Why? Do you watch CNN and MSNBC?

---

Never MSNBC, occasionally some Anderson Cooper on CNN.

I was honestly trying to understand your question - specifically what reality you could live in where that question makes sense.

Let's see, 100ish days in we have

1. Questions around the vetting, hiring, and firing of Flynn.

2. The poor rollout of a first Muslim ban and the ensuing fallout that led a POTUS to criticize the court and fire the AG.

3. Putting Bannon on the security counsel, and then taking him off.

4. Trotting out his communication team to defend his ridiculous claims of inauguration crowd size.

5. Trump claiming to know nothing about the Flynn controversy on Air Force One well after he did.

6. Statements made about the second Muslim ban being essentially the same as the first causing the second ban to get unnecessarily tied up in the courts. The guy doesn't learn.

7. The lack of leadership, strategy and execution on the first attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare.

8. Lack of coherent foreign policy, which is partly caused by ridiculous positions he took against the humanitarian crisis in Syria and pursuing China as a currency manipulator during the campaign (strategies that helped him get elected).

9. The timing of the firing of Comey while his team is being investigated and the questionable circumstances (all brought upon by himself) leading to the conflicts with Comey and the intelligence community at large.

10. The timing and circumstances of a meeting with Russia, getting snookered so that only Russia media is there, and the unplanned disclosure of classified information provided by an intelligence ally.

This is just a top 10. But in each case, the actual mistake was needlesssly amplified and made worse by clumsy twitter fingers and poor internal communication and leadership that has cost so many people their credibility. He has made complete fools of Spicer and Conway - turned them into charicatures like Baghdad Bob. Sending them out to say one thing that he contradicts before the 24 hour news cycle even finishes processing the initial statement.

On point 10 - now Putin is claiming to have a transcript of the meeting which they will release if he White House deems appropriate. Snookered. Russia's interference is paying off - this is the chaos they wanted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Never MSNBC, occasionally some Anderson Cooper on CNN.

I was honestly trying to understand your question - specifically what reality you could live in where that question makes sense.

Let's see, 100ish days in we have

1. Questions around the vetting, hiring, and firing of Flynn.

2. The poor rollout of a first Muslim ban and the ensuing fallout that led a POTUS to criticize the court and fire the AG.

3. Putting Bannon on the security counsel, and then taking him off.

4. Trotting out his communication team to defend his ridiculous claims of inauguration crowd size.

5. Trump claiming to know nothing about the Flynn controversy on Air Force One well after he did.

6. Statements made about the second Muslim ban being essentially the same as the first causing the second ban to get unnecessarily tied up in the courts. The guy doesn't learn.

7. The lack of leadership, strategy and execution on the first attempt to repeal and replace Obamacare.

8. Lack of coherent foreign policy, which is partly caused by ridiculous positions he took against the humanitarian crisis in Syria and pursuing China as a currency manipulator during the campaign (strategies that helped him get elected).

9. The timing of the firing of Comey while his team is being investigated and the questionable circumstances (all brought upon by himself) leading to the conflicts with Comey and the intelligence community at large.

10. The timing and circumstances of a meeting with Russia, getting snookered so that only Russia media is there, and the unplanned disclosure of classified information provided by an intelligence ally.

This is just a top 10. But in each case, the actual mistake was needlesssly amplified and made worse by clumsy twitter fingers and poor internal communication and leadership that has cost so many people their credibility. He has made complete fools of Spicer and Conway - turned them into charicatures like Baghdad Bob. Sending them out to say one thing that he contradicts before the 24 hour news cycle even finishes processing the initial statement.

---

You want me to make a list that looks just like that for Obama, W, Clinton, and Bush Sr.? Granted, it wouldn't all be from their first 100 days, but being so early in Trump's administration and not quite having figured it out yet I would actually give him somewhat of a pass.

Again, everything on that list is being dramaticized and politicized, and not one item on that list is any different from things that went on under every other president. That doesn't mean I don't agree with you about the list! But don't act like we've never seen this type stuff before. The difference is that the left and the media are going out of their way to hammer him...almost like they are trying to punish him because he is a political outsider and for the things he said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RhythmDawg

You want me to make a list that looks just like that for Obama, W, Clinton, and Bush Sr.? Granted, it wouldn't all be from their first 100 days, but being so early in Trump's administration and not quite having figured it out yet I would actually give him somewhat of a pass.

Again, everything on that list is being dramaticized and politicized, and not one item on that list is any different from things that went on under every other president. That doesn't mean I don't agree with you about the list! But don't act like we've never seen this type stuff before. The difference is that the left and the media are going out of their way to hammer him...almost like they are trying to punish him because he is a political outsider and for the things he said.

---

You are ignoring the multiplier kicker in my last paragraph that truly distinguishes this administration and has completely undermined its credibility.

He has created the chaos and instigated the criticism by lying and then criticizing those that try to hold him accountable to the lies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

You are ignoring the multiplier kicker in my last paragraph that truly distinguishes this administration and has completely undermined its credibility.

---

I'm not arguing with your last paragraph at all, but it is the same thing that every other president has done, including Obama. Trump has not gotten a pass on anything like the rest of our presidents have, for reasons I listed. But he certainly has done more than his fair share thus far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

He has created the chaos and instigated the criticism by lying and then criticizing those that try to hold him accountable to the lies.

---

Obama did exactly the same thing...he was just a master at talking his way around it and out of it...to his credit...nor did he have the media after him. Obama was a better salesman than Trump, or perhaps I should say he was a much better politician than Trump. And in no way do I intend for that last sentence to be a criticism or insult to Obama, but rather quite the opposite. Unfortunately for conservatives, Obama was very skilled in those areas.