Global Warming Cont...

Carbon tax better than cap-and-trade.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0213/p09s01-coop.html

As my American Enterprise Institute colleagues Ken Green, Steve Hayward, and Kevin Hassett pointed out two years ago, "sudden changes in economic conditions could lead to significant price volatility in a cap-and-trade program that would be less likely under a carbon-tax regime."
Recent experience bears this out. Europe has in place a cap-and-trade program that today looks a little like the American mortgage-backed securities market – it's a total mess. The price of carbon recently fell – plummeting from over $30 to around $12 per ton – as European firms unloaded their permits on the market in an effort to shore up deteriorating balance sheets during the credit crunch.
It is this shaky experience with cap-and-trade that might explain an unlikely advocate of a carbon tax. Earlier this year, ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson pointed in a speech to the problems with Europe's cap-and-trade program – such as the program's volatility and lack of transparency – as reasons he prefers a carbon tax.

A carbon tax is a bad idea unless all countries agree to it. Otherwise you further empower the new economic powers while the crusty old countries like Europe and the US fall even farther into economic disaster.

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Originally Posted by Ken_Horndawgs

A carbon tax is a bad idea unless all countries agree to it. Otherwise you further empower the new economic powers while the crusty old countries like Europe and the US fall even farther into economic disaster.

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Exactly. We just create an artificial obstacle to competition for US companies.

Yes, a global carbon tax is the way to go.

For example, the US puts a carbon tax on US beef production. Any foreign producer of beef that wants to import beef into the US has to pay a carbon tax to US Customs.

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Originally Posted by saltydawg

For example, the US puts a carbon tax on US beef production. Any foreign producer of beef that wants to import beef into the US has to pay a carbon tax to US Customs.

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As someone who raises Polled Herefords, that would destroy what's left of the small farmer and drive beef prices at the counter ridiculously high. Try again.

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Originally Posted by duckbillplatty

As someone who raises Polled Herefords, that would destroy what's left of the small farmer and drive beef prices at the counter ridiculously high. Try again.

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Yes, beef prices would go up but probably the small farmer could compete, perhaps even more so, since specialty beef prices are already high compared to supermarket prices. Grass fed beef has a low carbon hoof-print.

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Originally Posted by saltydawg

Yes, beef prices would go up but probably the small farmer could compete, perhaps even more so, since specialty beef prices are already high compared to supermarket prices. Grass fed beef has a low carbon hoof-print.

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If there were a break for gress-fed beef, then that would be better, but large farms are so close to the market they are hit much less by price fluctuations.

Leave it to a Californian to do two liberal cliche's at once:

1. Alter your lifestyle by telling you what you can/can't eat
2. Propose a new tax

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Originally Posted by Ken_Horndawgs

Leave it to a Californian to do two liberal cliche's at once:

1. Alter your lifestyle by telling you what you can/can't eat
2. Propose a new tax

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Now, now, Ken, I'm not say tht you can eat beef just like I'm not saying that you cannot smoke cigarettes. What I am saying is that the gov't has a duty to promote the general welfare and that putting a tax on an item tends to alter behavior for the better.

Remember, a conservative is responsible, a liberal plays the victim.

If you have a better idea to reduce CO2 emissions please let me know.

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Originally Posted by saltydawg

Now, now, Ken, I'm not say tht you can eat beef just like I'm not saying that you cannot smoke cigarettes. What I am saying is that the gov't has a duty to promote the general welfare and that putting a tax on an item tends to alter behavior for the better.

Remember, a conservative is responsible, a liberal plays the victim.

If you have a better idea to reduce CO2 emissions please let me know.

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My best idea for improving the CO2 "situation" would be to stop deforestation, especially the rain forests.

Crippling industries and our country through economic punishment based on highly disputed "science" would just be silly.

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Originally Posted by Ken_Horndawgs

My best idea for improving the CO2 "situation" would be to stop deforestation, especially the rain forests.

Crippling industries and our country through economic punishment based on highly disputed "science" would just be silly.

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Doesn't "stopping deforestation" mean economic punishment for loggers in those countries (crippling their industries and countries)?

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Originally Posted by saltydawg

What I am saying is that the gov't has a duty to promote the general welfare and that putting a tax on an item tends to alter behavior for the better.

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Communist.

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Originally Posted by inudesu

Doesn't "stopping deforestation" mean economic punishment for loggers in those countries (crippling their industries and countries)?

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No. Trees are a renewable resource. Replanting for timber isn't deforestation.

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Originally Posted by Ken_Horndawgs

No. Trees are a renewable resource. Replanting for timber isn't deforestation.

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I'm sure much of the large scale rain forrest loss is from companies that could be replanting. But I also think a pretty good bit of it is done by people who aren't really operating on a scale that affords replanting. That doesn't mean I think they should be doing it (the short-sightedness is obvious) but if my choice is cut down an old growth jungle tree or go hungry, I'm getting my ax. You stopping me from doing that is punishing me economically just like tightening pollution is punishing a coal plant.

You're still hurting an economy based on the same science. It's just farther away.