Immigration

It's useful to re-read this thread, but replace every instance of "illegals", "immigrants", or "Mexicans" with "humans".

And to replace every mention of "murderers", "rapists", "criminals", and "drug dealers" with "sinners"

Interesting indeed. I went back and started from the beginning. A lot has changed in 12 years...and, I miss Spinoza.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

A lot has changed in 12 years...and, I miss Spinoza.

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Hmm, dont know if I'd go that far ...

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Originally Posted by Champ967

It's useful to re-read this thread, but replace every instance of "illegals", "immigrants", or "Mexicans" with "humans".

And to replace every mention of "murderers", "rapists", "criminals", and "drug dealers" with "sinners"

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At 188 pages that is a pretty tall order.

Do you have some specific instances where this is particularly enlightening?

It is crazy that this thread started when Spinoza was still on the board. That's been a minute.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Why would you want to sympathize White Nationalism?

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Maybe because it is a "made up" term that has somehow become part of the political narrative. Like so many other terms that have been invented.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Why is it an issue? It's an issue because it gets people to the polls...that's really the only reason ANYBODY is talking about it. I wouldn't call you a propagandist, but calling undocumented immigrants invaders is a strategy employed by propagandists (politicians are propagandists...as are talk show hosts who carry their water).

Further, it's an issue because our system sucks. We took 2/3 of these folks in after vetting them but had no system for keeping up with them or a streamlined process for dealing with them. Blame the immigrants if you want, but ask yourself whether or not you'd do what they've done were you in the same situation.

I'm not a liberal. I have not ever been a liberal. The illegals are here because there is a market for their services. A lot of guys here claim to be free-market guys, but they don't trust the market to take care of this "problem". And, the market doesn't see it as a problem. Many small business owners benefit from the labor of undocumented immigrants and they don't want them deported...and they certainly don't want to pay the taxes they owe on the wages they pay them.

It makes all the sense in the world.

And, I never defended illegal immigration, but I understand it. Like another set of those who broke the law (our founding fathers), I agree that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights and because of that, language that dehumanizes (weren't they compared to weeds earlier?) doesn't sit well with me. If it sits well with you, that's your business.

So let's recap:

1. 2/3 of undocumented aliens came here on temporary visas (meaning they went through a level of vetting to get here).
2. They are less violently criminal than US citizens.
3. A vast majority of them are hard working and willing to do jobs citizens refuse.
4. They are overwhelmingly socially conservative. They have strong family values, oppose abortion, and are some of the most faithful Roman Catholics on the planet.

And yet, somehow, the GOP has isolated this group that should be some of their biggest supporters.

Trumpism is, yet again, sacrificing the long-term viability of TRUE conservatism for cheap and meaningless "wins" for big government, anti-free trade populism.

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You make some good points.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

That is not the crisis. The crisis is the lost capacity due to the new zero-tolerance policy. Btw, 25% of defensive asylum claims were granted in 2017. 41% were denied with the balance were resolved by some other manner. That indicates that it isn’t the rare person showing up with a legitimate asylum claim.

BTW- Withholding economic relief to the Centra American countries - Trump’s latest threat - will certainly not help the situation either.

Similarly diverting resources to a wall in place of resources to immigrant processing is also largely useless and counterproductive.

But you can count on Trump not to solve the actual problem - he collects too much political currency on this wedge issue to actually solve it. He just wants to beat his war drum on the bad hombres in front of his adoring crowds of mouth breathers.

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I think that Trump is fed up with Congress not being able to solve the problem. Many Americans are. Immigration should not be an avenue for criminals or those seeking "freebies" to come to our country. That is the problem.

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Originally Posted by stodgdog

Maybe because it is a "made up" term

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All terms are.

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Originally Posted by Champ967

All terms are.

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True. This term originated with Madison Grant (an American), whose writings very much inspired Hitler and apparently Trump.

Though I am fairly certain Trump never read him, the influence on him is more indirect via his alt-right media connections.

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Originally Posted by Champ967

All terms are.

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That is true. But the term in question is really non descriptive.

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Originally Posted by stodgdog

That is true. But the term in question is really non descriptive.

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It is a reference to a specific ideology, and a well known one at that given Hitler’s ruthless application of it.

White nationalism is all about the idea of a “white national identity” and the belief that white people should maintain their majority in majority-white countries, maintain their political and economic dominance, and that their cultures should be foremost.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

It is a reference to a specific ideology, and a well known one at that given Hitler’s ruthless application of it.

White nationalism is all about the idea of a “white national identity” and the belief that white people should maintain their majority in majority-white countries, maintain their political and economic dominance, and that their cultures should be foremost.

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Simple question...why is the vast majority of immigration away from predominantly "colored people" countries into predominantly "white people" countries?


Oh, to keep the topic simple (so some of you can understand it) I purposely painted with a broad brush, lumping "brown" skin people in with "black" skin people. Even though they represent different races.

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Originally Posted by dawg80

Simple question...why is the vast majority of immigration away from predominantly "colored people" countries into predominantly "white people" countries?

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Are you counting slavery as immigration now? And are you not counting the immigration of “white people” to the country in the first instance? Because you could say that white people taking over North America from the Native Americans is one of the biggest immigration movements of all time.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Are you counting slavery as immigration now? And are you not counting the immigration of “white people” to the country in the first instance? Because you could say that white people taking over North America from the Native Americans is one of the biggest immigration movements of all time.

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Has nothing to do with slavery, or any other forced movement of people. As for The Americas, that is an overall interesting historic "immigration" story. But, is irrelevant to the question of immigration patterns today, and in recent decades. Perhaps I wasn't clear about the question, so let me clarify, the question is meant to address modern immigration patterns. Since that is the gist of the leftists attempt to label someone a "white nationalist."

(not ducking the North American question, will address that in another post)