Turn Off the NFL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Perception is reality is a marketing slogan. It's seen as disrespectful because of the talking heads we fill our ears with. When, in any other context, has taking a knee been seen as disrespectful?

I would disagree that offending/startling people is not a good route to change. Anyone who's ever been in sales knows that doubt, uncertainty, and fear are great buying motivators.

---

It's seen as disrespectful because it has always been seen as disrespectful. I promise you if you travel back 10, 20, 30 years and kneel/sit for the national anthem you would receive 99% agreement that it is disrespectful. There are very few things in the United States that you could find so much agreement on. To say that the media is making that up is just false. Again if I want to wave a rebel flag around it doesn't matter if I don't mean any disrespect, many view it as disrespectful and a symbol of hate.

You are correct that the whole point of a protest is to make people uncomfortable and to get people to talk or think about what you are doing. This is a case of the protest overshadowing the cause(s).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cal&Ken

A knee during the national anthem has never been acceptable

---

Had you ever seen someone do it before Kaepernick? I am guessing you haven't...I certainly hadn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detltu

It's seen as disrespectful because it has always been seen as disrespectful.

---

I don't think that's true. I don't think we've seen something like this other than the panther fist...which I don't equate to kneeling. I also don't think sitting should be equated with kneeling.

Further, I think if a conservative protest had taken place during the anthem, Hannity and Rush and WND would be all over themselves praising it. Why? Because they are profit driven hypocrites. That doesn't mean that their "consumers" are hypocritical, but it does mean that they should be aware of those guys' motives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

These protests are being labeled as disrespectful acts perpetrated by people that hate America. Reid, who was one of the first to act, says that's not true.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Had you ever seen someone do it before Kaepernick? I am guessing you haven't...I certainly hadn't.

---

If they are not meant as a sign of disrespect of the flag and troops why do them during a short period of time that honors the flag and troops? Kapernick said flat out why he was doing it. It was never about anything other than disrespect of our great Nation because of their perceived mistreatment of the black man during Obama's term. To date, a solution has not been discussed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Had you ever seen someone do it before Kaepernick? I am guessing you haven't...I certainly hadn't.

---

That's kind of the point. If anyone sat or took a knee they would be told to stand up. I can't say that I've seen people taking a knee, but I've seen people sitting and that's exactly what happened. And it's what happened to Kaepernick as well. It's hard to claim ignorance on this. It really is at the base of this protest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detltu

Again if I want to wave a rebel flag around it doesn't matter if I don't mean any disrespect, many view it as disrespectful and a symbol of hate.

---

It absolutely matters. It matters because you either need to be educated or the people around you need to be educated. You know, the free exchange of ideas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

I don't think that's true. I don't think we've seen something like this other than the panther fist...which I don't equate to kneeling. I also don't think sitting should be equated with kneeling.

Further, I think if a conservative protest had taken place during the anthem, Hannity and Rush and WND would be all over themselves praising it. Why? Because they are profit driven hypocrites. That doesn't mean that their "consumers" are hypocritical, but it does mean that they should be aware of those guys' motives.

---

Quite possibly. I would certainly agree they are giant hypocrites and I would be more apt to say they would go along with it if Trump came out and said he supported it. I will also say that if if you took the politics out of it you would get wide spread agreement that it is disrespectful from both sides of the isle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

If they are not meant as a sign of disrespect of the flag and troops why do them during a short period of time that honors the flag and troops? Kapernick said flat out why he was doing it. It was never about anything other than disrespect of our great Nation because of their perceived mistreatment of the black man during Obama's term. To date, a solution has not been discussed.

---

Perhaps because it is a national issue and that is the only time during the game that we consider national issues. You're right, Kaepernick did say why he was doing it and he DID NOT say that it was to disrespect our nation.

Of course it's meant to draw attention to the issue, but that's not the same as disrespect. You're equating the two because it makes it easy to write off what their saying and refuse to interact with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Had you ever seen someone do it before Kaepernick? I am guessing you haven't...I certainly hadn't.

---

No, no one was choosing to disrespect the flag. We are taught as children to take your hat off, stand at attention with your hand over your heart as a way to respect our flag. Anything the deviates, no matter how much you dislike it, is disrespectful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cal&Ken

Anything the deviates, no matter how much you dislike it, is disrespectful.

---

Yes, you've said that before. What I'm saying is that, it's possible, that it's not.

It has zero to do with what I like or dislike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Yes, you've said that before. What I'm saying is that, it's possible, that it's not.

It has zero to do with what I like or dislike.

---

No possibility- ZERO- it is! Your dislike of Trump has jaded your view on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

It absolutely matters. It matters because you either need to be educated or the people around you need to be educated. You know, the free exchange of ideas.

---

But it doesn't matter. People will be offended regardless. It would be great if we could always know everyone's intentions but we can't. Sometimes even if they explain them. If you make a move about god and mother earth getting together and making a baby (who is supposed to represent Jesus) who is then killed and eaten, no amount of explanation or good intentions is going to stop that from offending some people. Even some people who aren't religious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cal&Ken

Your dislike of Trump has jaded your view on this.

---

Check the record...the two have nothing to do with one another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Perhaps because it is a national issue and that is the only time during the game that we consider national issues. You're right, Kaepernick did say why he was doing it and he DID NOT say that it was to disrespect our nation.

Of course it's meant to draw attention to the issue, but that's not the same as disrespect. You're equating the two because it makes it easy to write off what their saying and refuse to interact with it.

---

"he DID NOT say that it was to disrespect our nation"
You need to read his quote again. It is clear he does not want to show respect to our flag or country.
You can word smith it if you like and argue semantics but that is clear. At best you could say he's not proud of it but not ashamed of it either I guess. Is that what we are going to cling to?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by detltu

But it doesn't matter. People will be offended regardless. It would be great if we could always know everyone's intentions but we can't. Sometimes even if they explain them. If you make a move about god and mother earth getting together and making a baby (who is supposed to represent Jesus) who is then killed and eaten, no amount of explanation or good intentions is going to stop that from offending some people. Even some people who aren't religious.

---

If you measure matter by whether or not it offends someone, then you're right. Someone will ALWAYS be offended. If matter is defined as whether or not thinking people understand each other better afterwards, then it totally matters. Most folks here are highly educated and are incredibly considerate. WE are the people who should rise above the lowest common denominator. WE are the people who need to evaluate arguments instead of evaluating arguers. Our country will be stronger and better when people who are equipped to think more deeply than the tribal tone that our current climate displays choose to do so.