QB Controversy

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

Make no mistake....those SEC refs WANTED badly to call intentional grounding on that play. :laugh: In fact, they DID call it at first. They were so excited to call "IG" (because Smith was still inside the tackle box), that they never even noticed Trent Taylor standing right under the thrown pass.

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And the announcers never told us that the flag was picked up. Could tell only because it was 2nd and 10 instead of 3rd and long.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

Make no mistake....those SEC refs WANTED badly to call intentional grounding on that play. :laugh: In fact, they DID call it at first. They were so excited to call "IG" (because Smith was still inside the tackle box), that they never even noticed Trent Taylor standing right under the thrown pass.

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Yep. But he was OUTSIDE the tackle box, the ball went past the line of scrimmage, and the ball went over Trent Taylor's head. The flag should have never been thrown. Then when the d*****s official picked up his erroneous flag the Arkansas fans booed long and loud in response.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

Make no mistake....those SEC refs WANTED badly to call intentional grounding on that play. :laugh: In fact, they DID call it at first. They were so excited to call "IG" (because Smith was still inside the tackle box), that they never even noticed Trent Taylor standing right under the thrown pass.

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I know they did. Kudos to Skip for standing up to them and getting the flag picked up, but he wouldn't have been able to make that case had J'Mar not made a great play there.

The blatant holding no-call on the 4th and goal score all but confirmed how much the refs wanted to make sure Arkansas won. Don't forget the block in the back penalty they called when Trent Taylor got brought down by the facemask on a punt return. That alone caused a 25 yard swing in field position, assuming they didn't call the block in the back penalty but called the facemask penalty. I don't recall them showing a replay of that block in the back, so who knows if it actually happened. :icon_roll:

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Originally Posted by Dowty

I completely agree. The one play by Smith that impressed me the most was when we evaded 2 guys chasing him behind the line and still had the presence of mind to not only throw the ball away, but to put it in the vicinity of a receiver to keep from getting the intentional grounding call. There are many starting QBs in both college and the NFL that won't do that, let alone a redshirt freshman making his first career start on the road against an SEC team. I can confidently say we won't see a play like that from Higgins this year. He'll either fold and take the sack or fling the ball into coverage and risk a pick.

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Looks at all the recievers, quick release, accurate...kind of reminded me of Rattay.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

Looks at all the recievers, quick release, accurate...kind of reminded me of Rattay.

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I really did like his quick release. And his arm is strong too.

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

Higgins will start next week and "JMar will be a superstar"
Coach talking with Dave

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Honestly, the only reason I think Higgins should start is if J'Mar has a concussion or his eye is still hurting. (sorry haven't read the other 8 pages...)

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

I think you do too. But if J'Mar Smith can't connect on that deep ball going forward, I'd go to Ryan Higgins in a heartbeat.

I'm really tired of seeing LA Tech QB's continuously OVERTHROW the deep ball when our receivers are 3-4 yards behind the opposing DB's. That's just a missed opportunity. Driskel overthrew his receivers on the deep ball all year last year, and J'Mar did it yesterday.

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The overthrow to Henderson would have been a touchdown!!

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Originally Posted by OLDBLUE

I don't make the decision, but what I'd like to see Higgins start and Smith get a lot of PT the second half to continue his development (throwing long routes, checking down, ie.)

He needs to be ready, but he's got a while. Where's Coach Mickey?

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I agree!

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Originally Posted by dawg80

Okay, I'm ready to see Higgins do his stuff. Enough talk, enough "gonna do this, gonna do that." Just do it!

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Git er done!!!

Well, with another week of non-practice evidence, it's clear to me that J'Mar gives us the best chance to win.

Ryan Higgins
Career YDS 2331, TD 11, INT 18
2016 Adj. QB Rating 52.3

J'Mar Smith
Career YDS 263, TD 1, INT 1
2016 Adj. QB Rating 62.3

I agree with Coach, J'Mar will be a superstar. I just don't understand the waiting. Maybe I need to learn patience.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Well, with another week of non-practice evidence, it's clear to me that J'Mar gives us the best chance to win.

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I simply cannot believe it is still at issue.

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Originally Posted by Soonerdawg

I simply cannot believe it is still at issue.

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I can't believe some of you think it is as simple as that.

J'Mar ran a very small part of our offense compared to what a 5th year senior is expected to run. Not saying Higgins is the most talented athlete, but he knows the offense and what the coaches are asking for. I don't expect HCSH to go "guns up" at TX Tech, but he will have options J'Mar would not give him.

I think you mean options that J'Mar wouldn't give him.

I can go with the thought that Holtz will have more options with Higgins due to his knowledge of the plays. It's the execution I'm worried about. Something I feel J'Mar could grasp by adding a few plays each week. If J'Mar was the starter, he could have had 3 weeks of work adding to "his" playbook.

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Originally Posted by techman05

I can go with the thought that Holtz will have more options with Higgins due to his knowledge of the plays. It's the execution I'm worried about. Something I feel J'Mar could grasp by adding a few plays each week. If J'Mar was the starter, he could have had 3 weeks of work adding to "his" playbook.

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I agree, but with HCSH (I believe) it's as much about his own ego as what's best for the team. He has declared Higgins the best option. He made excuses for his bad play last night or at least over looked it.

My concern is how bad will it have to get to put J'Mar in.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

I agree, but with HCSH (I believe) it's as much about his own ego as what's best for the team. He has declared Higgins the best option. He made excuses for his bad play last night or at least over looked it.

My concern is how bad will it have to get to put J'Mar in.

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I hear ya. Man, I hope this isn't about his ego. I know he sees what we see in terms of poise and upside in Smith. I think it relates to the point that if he was to name Smith starter, there is no looking back.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

I agree, but with HCSH (I believe) it's as much about his own ego as what's best for the team. He has declared Higgins the best option. He made excuses for his bad play last night or at least over looked it.

My concern is how bad will it have to get to put J'Mar in.

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When Texas Tech goes up by 4 TDs.

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Originally Posted by revf

Ryan Higgins
Career YDS 2331, TD 11, INT 18
2016 Adj. QB Rating 52.3

J'Mar Smith
Career YDS 263, TD 1, INT 1
2016 Adj. QB Rating 62.3

I agree with Coach, J'Mar will be a superstar. I just don't understand the waiting. Maybe I need to learn patience.

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. Bradshaw - 42 INTs. 39 tds. Imagine if BBB was around the outcry to dump Bradshaw , especially after throwing 6 picks against USM on thanksgiving day in Shreveport. Fortunately we have head coach- OC and Tim who spend combined 150-200 hours a week making decision.

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

we have head coach- OC and Tim who spend combined 150-200 hours a week making decision.

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HCSH working 50 to 65 hours per week...no wonder over slept two days last week for his usual radio interview.;)

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Originally Posted by DONW

When Texas Tech goes up by 4 TDs.

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.......which could be half way thru the 1st Qtr........

Yes, I believe we can beat Texas Tech. But we CANNOT turn the ball over 4 times in the 1st half like we did last night against SC St. I don't care who's QBing, if the Dawgs turn it over 4 times in one half, we'll be toast.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

I can't believe some of you think it is as simple as that.

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I can't believe anybody buys that 20% of the playbook mess.

The best offense we've had in the past decade had 23 plays.

It's very simple. We have one guy who has "it" in practice and another that has "it" during the games. For some reason our HC and those he trusts to get his case out are valuing practice more than games.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

.......which could be half way thru the 1st Qtr........

Yes, I believe we can beat Texas Tech. But we CANNOT turn the ball over 4 times in the 1st half like we did last night against SC St. I don't care who's QBing, if the Dawgs turn it over 4 times in one half, we'll be toast.

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Our special teams are good for at least one turnover. Probably more like 3 considering the number of kickoffs we'll be receiving. Hederson did it all year last year and has done it twice this year. DO NOT take the ball out of the end zone when you are not SURE you can get it out past the 25. He is a horrible at judging what a kick returner is supposed to be good at.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

For some reason our HC and those he trusts to get his case out are valuing practice more than games.

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Or is it because he said that's the way it was going to be and now he won't admit he was wrong? IDK, I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but last night against a HORRIBLE football team our "best option" made multiple mistakes.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

I can't believe some of you think it is as simple as that.

J'Mar ran a very small part of our offense compared to what a 5th year senior is expected to run. Not saying Higgins is the most talented athlete, but he knows the offense and what the coaches are asking for. I don't expect HCSH to go "guns up" at TX Tech, but he will have options J'Mar would not give him.

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You will get your quarterback again this week. The simplicity of the decision will manifest itself.

What if the game is like a Tasmanian devil in an old folk's home? (hyperbole, okay?)

I'm more concerned about defense against the RRaiders than our QB selection. We don't have a QB controversy, we are blessed with an almost ideal situation.

Appreciate and enjoy it. Have some confidence our coaches know how to get the best out of it, and pray for our defense.

We wouldn't have a controversy if we had never seen Smith against Arkansas. We would all assume Higgins was the guy b/c he's the one on the field. In that sense, this controversy is entirely of Higgins' creation.

I don't dislike Higgins, I just don't think he's superior to Smith to such an extent that it makes sense to play him instead of playing Smith who could use the experiences of this year to be an even better QB his junior and senior years.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

We wouldn't have a controversy if we had never seen Smith against Arkansas. We would all assume Higgins was the guy b/c he's the one on the field. In that sense, this controversy is entirely of Higgins' creation.

I don't dislike Higgins, I just don't think he's superior to Smith to such an extent that it makes sense to play him instead of playing Smith who could use the experiences of this year to be an even better QB his junior and senior years.

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But the coaches.....?

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Originally Posted by OLDBLUE

But the coaches.....?

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Well that's why we're discussing this! I've never been one to think someone is right just because of their position. I think sports message boards were built around that premise...coaches make mistakes and the fans (consumers) get to whine about it.

It's as American as apple pie!

Do we know all of the coaches agree?

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Originally Posted by Soonerdawg

Do we know all of the coaches agree?

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No we don't ;)

I would be interested to know which guy Rattay likes better.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Well, with another week of non-practice evidence, it's clear to me that J'Mar gives us the best chance to win.

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How so? From all reports Smith is not comfortable with the whole playbook. No question he is a good player.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

We wouldn't have a controversy if we had never seen Smith against Arkansas. We would all assume Higgins was the guy b/c he's the one on the field. In that sense, this controversy is entirely of Higgins' creation.

I don't dislike Higgins, I just don't think he's superior to Smith to such an extent that it makes sense to play him instead of playing Smith who could use the experiences of this year to be an even better QB his junior and senior years.

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Tech needs to win this year. Smith will have time to develop. Right now, the coaches believe Higgins is our best option. If that changes, they will know it and make the necessary change. I really believe the coaches will do what is best for the team.

I would love to see the stats of both of our QBs thru two weeks but of course the SID or whoever cant even get the stats up on latechsports.com. Irks me in a big way.

As far as J'Mar or Ryan, I feel they are about even, therefore go with the young guy and let him develop. Any time he is in trouble, tell him to throw it to Trent Taylor cause he'll be open. J'Mar is so calm and cool in the pocket. Higgins wants to get outside the pocket and throw into some small windows that Aaron Rodgers wont even throw into. Making mental mistakes is not acceptable for a 5th year senior. Ryan is talented, but he always has 2-3 plays a game where he totally forgets that he needs to protect the ball. If I'm coaching, I cant live with that.

We can only hope that the first half of the SCSU game was like knocking barnacles off the Titanic. Also hope Higgins doesn't burn all his good reps in practice the way I burn all my good shots at the driving range.

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Originally Posted by techman05

We can only hope that the first half of the SCSU game was like knocking barnacles off the Titanic. Also hope Higgins doesn't burn all his good reps in practice the way I burn all my good shots at the driving range.

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My game has gotten so bad I would be happy with good shots at the range

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

We wouldn't have a controversy if we had never seen Smith against Arkansas. We would all assume Higgins was the guy b/c he's the one on the field. In that sense, this controversy is entirely of Higgins' creation.

I don't dislike Higgins, I just don't think he's superior to Smith to such an extent that it makes sense to play him instead of playing Smith who could use the experiences of this year to be an even better QB his junior and senior years.

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His SOPH, JR, & SR years!

The real question, to which the answer could have worldwide impact and effectively end this thread, is...who would Coach Mick start this week?

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Originally Posted by RhythmDawg

The real question, to which the answer could have worldwide impact and effectively end this thread, is...who would Coach Mick start this week?

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True, but you won't get him to offer up anything but support for whoever is out there.

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Originally Posted by techman05

True, but you won't get him to offer up anything but support for whoever is out there.

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Which is what everyone should do. I don't believe any of the Smith supporters want Higgins to fail.

We're all just killing time until TX Tech.

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Originally Posted by Houston Techsan

Which is what everyone should do. I don't believe any of the Smith supporters want Higgins to fail.

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"Want" isn't the right word at all.

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Originally Posted by stodgdog

How so? From all reports Smith is not comfortable with the whole playbook. No question he is a good player.

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What I see with my eyes in the games tells me that those reports may be accurate in practice, but they don't mean much in the games.

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Originally Posted by stodgdog

Tech needs to win this year. Smith will have time to develop. Right now, the coaches believe Higgins is our best option. If that changes, they will know it and make the necessary change. I really believe the coaches will do what is best for the team.

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That seems short sighted to me...particularly if there's no discernible difference in their on the field production (and I think a good argument could be made that Smith is ahead of Higgins when the lights go on).

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

We're all just killing time until TX Tech.

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Perfect!! I have been thinking same thing

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Originally Posted by RhythmDawg

The real question, to which the answer could have worldwide impact and effectively end this thread, is...who would Coach Mick start this week?

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based on fact that Terry threw 6 picks on Thanksgiving day vs S Miss and career 42 picks and 39 Tds --my guess is Coach Mickey would work with senior-- based on talent being comparable, who is comfortable with entire playbook.... Coach and Higgins talked about "trying to do too much" issue and settle down in second half. Coach Holtz has talked about Ryans command of playbook. I still believe that Tim- Todd and Skip know more about this than me --they spend at least 100 hours a week deciding what gives them best chance at scoring/winning.

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Originally Posted by TrueBulldog1962

I would love to see the stats of both of our QBs thru two weeks but of course the SID or whoever cant even get the stats up on latechsports.com. Irks me in a big way.

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We've never kept a running total of stats that I know of. As you know there is a box score each week that contains the stats...

Week 1 - J'Mar was 19-31 for 212yds 1int. 0 TDs
Week 2 - J'Mar was 4-4 for 51 yds 0int. 1 TD

Week 2 - Higgins was 34-52 for 409yds 2int 4 TDs

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

based on fact that Terry threw 6 picks on Thanksgiving day vs S Miss and career 42 picks and 39 Tds --my guess is Coach Mickey would work with senior-- based on talent being comparable, who is comfortable with entire playbook.... Coach and Higgins talked about "trying to do too much" issue and settle down in second half. Coach Holtz has talked about Ryans command of playbook. I still believe that Tim- Todd and Skip know more about this than me --they spend at least 100 hours a week deciding what gives them best chance at scoring/winning.

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Some times 3 hours on Saturday is a better medium for judgement than those 100 hours during the week.

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

--they spend at least 100 hours a week deciding what gives them best chance at scoring

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labg

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

We've never kept a running total of stats that I know of. As you know there is a box score each week that contains the stats...

Week 1 - J'Mar was 19-31 for 212yds 1int. 0 TDs
Week 2 - J'Mar was 4-4 for 51 yds 0int. 1 TD

Week 2 - Higgins was 34-52 for 409yds 2int 4 TDs

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Nah, we've always had a running total of stats, but not this year. Non competence in the athletic department is a given at this point.

*EDIT: Stats are finally up online after they read BBB.

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

based on fact that Terry threw 6 picks on Thanksgiving day vs S Miss and career 42 picks and 39 Tds --my guess is Coach Mickey would work with senior-- based on talent being comparable, who is comfortable with entire playbook.... Coach and Higgins talked about "trying to do too much" issue and settle down in second half. Coach Holtz has talked about Ryans command of playbook. I still believe that Tim- Todd and Skip know more about this than me --they spend at least 100 hours a week deciding what gives them best chance at scoring/winning.

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Agreed. Holtz has earned my trust and I certainly trust Rattay as well. I have my doubts, lucky for all Tech fans the coaches don't come to me for advice. I wouldn't mind hearing some wisdom from Coach Mick though.

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Originally Posted by detltu

Agreed. Holtz has earned my trust and I certainly trust Rattay as well. I have my doubts, lucky for all Tech fans the coaches don't come to me for advice. I wouldn't mind hearing some wisdom from Coach Mick though.

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an inference can be drawn from his comments on this thread

ONLY thing I know is that I feel much better about the QB situation than I did after Spring -- nice that most of us feel we have an issue of " who's best" vs what are we going to do for qb, I have lived through a few yrs we had no confidence with anyone....

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Originally Posted by Champ967

labg

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Latin-American Business Group ?

http://lbggroup.net/

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

ONLY thing I know is that I feel much better about the QB situation than I did after Spring -- nice that most of us feel we have an issue of " who's best" vs what are we going to do for qb, I have lived through a few yrs we had no confidence with anyone....

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True. Could be like LSU...

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Originally Posted by boxerdog

an inference can be drawn from his comments on this thread

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I guess he needs to draw a picture.

inference I got was we have our quarterback of the FUTURE -- that does not mean he is ready yet. Saw coach Todd has been QB coach since 2003 as well as OC -- I assume that RH knows the offense completely now and been throwing to TT since he came to Tech-- hopefully RH will correct the turnover issue and this thread will die

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

inference I got was we have our quarterback of the FUTURE -- that does not mean he is ready yet. Saw coach Todd has been QB coach since 2003 as well as OC -- I assume that RH knows the offense completely now and been throwing to TT since he came to Tech-- hopefully RH will correct the turnover issue and this thread will die

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It sounds like you would infer that he thought Higgins should start were he to have said, "J'Mar is the only quarterback that can lead this team." ;)

If Holtz really believes Higgins is the best QB, he would have played in the second half against Arkansas. Did anybody see him on the field?

No, that was his punishment.

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Originally Posted by DONW

If Holtz really believes Higgins is the best QB, he would have played in the second half against Arkansas. Did anybody see him on the field?

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Do you just refuse to read and comprehend what Skip Holtz says in his interviews? He has said MULTIPLE TIMES that he didn't pull J'Mar after his INT in the Arkansas game because he doesn't want his QB's to have a short leash. He didn't pull Higgins last Sat for the same reason. He has also said MULTIPLE TIMES that they had to trim down the offensive playbook by about 80% for J'Mar and he doesn't have to do that with Ryan.
Coach Holtz has said MULTIPLE TIMES that Ryan is our STARTING QB and there is no "QB controversy" until he decides otherwise, which he has not done so.

I like it

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

ONLY thing I know is that I feel much better about the QB situation than I did after Spring -- nice that most of us feel we have an issue of " who's best" vs what are we going to do for qb, I have lived through a few yrs we had no confidence with anyone....

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At the risk of sounding condescending, re-read his comment and the comment he quoted (and corrected). Try to determine why he made a correction to the quoted comment. Then, draw an inference.

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Originally Posted by DogsWin

Coach Holtz has said MULTIPLE TIMES that Ryan is our STARTING QB and there is no "QB controversy" until he decides otherwise, which he has not done so.

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Coach says who starts, but he doesn't get to decide whether or not there is a controversy. Despite their efforts to minimize it, there's a controversy. Post counts and BBB and BTB prove it.

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Originally Posted by DogsWin

Do you just refuse to read and comprehend what Skip Holtz says in his interviews? He has said MULTIPLE TIMES that he didn't pull J'Mar after his INT in the Arkansas game because he doesn't want his QB's to have a short leash. He didn't pull Higgins last Sat for the same reason. He has also said MULTIPLE TIMES that they had to trim down the offensive playbook by about 80% for J'Mar and he doesn't have to do that with Ryan.
Coach Holtz has said MULTIPLE TIMES that Ryan is our STARTING QB and there is no "QB controversy" until he decides otherwise, which he has not done so.

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I have trouble separating the truth from BS when Skip talks. All I know is that Arkansas returned 9 starters on defense that shutdown some pretty good sec teams last year and our RS freshman Qb took us within 2 points of a win. I'm with the razorback fan that called in after the game last week on the radio and said "I think La Tech just found a new starter at QB."

There has to be more behind the scenes activity than we know about......because what we have seen on the field......well, we all know who should start...

He did well for his first time back, halftime adjustment was good. Really refocused, realized what he was doing wrong, and didnt do it again. If he carries what he learned over into the weeks to come, and plays like he did in the 3rd quarter, we will be fine. We know J'Mar's got the talent, I hope we can see him this week at some point, just not for the wrong reasons!

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Coach says who starts, but he doesn't get to decide whether or not there is a controversy. Despite their efforts to minimize it, there's a controversy. Post counts and BBB and BTB prove it.

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What he said.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

We've never kept a running total of stats that I know of. As you know there is a box score each week that contains the stats...

Week 1 - J'Mar was 19-31 for 212yds 1int. 0 TDs
Week 2 - J'Mar was 4-4 for 51 yds 0int. 1 TD

Week 2 - Higgins was 34-52 for 409yds 2int 4 TDs

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So, they've completed almost exactly the same percentage of their pass attempts (65.7% <Smith> v. 65.3% <Higgins>). Smith's had 2.85% of his attempts intercepted, while Higgins has had 3.85% of his attempts intercepted. And 2.85% of Smith's attempts resulted in TDs; 7.69% of Higgins' attempts resulted in TDs. Granted, those are just passing stats, but the difference is negligible, except for TDs, which I assume matter to most of us. :D

And Coach Slaughter thinks experience this year could help Smith's FUTURE Sophomore, Junior, and Senior years. And Coach Holtz can't say enough that Higgins is our starter. With the last sentence as the most important, I'd say Higgins is our starter.

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Originally Posted by maverick

So, they've completed almost exactly the same percentage of their pass attempts (65.7% <Smith> v. 65.3% <Higgins>). Smith's had 2.85% of his attempts intercepted, while Higgins has had 3.85% of his attempts intercepted. And 2.85% of Smith's attempts resulted in TDs; 7.69% of Higgins' attempts resulted in TDs. Granted, those are just passing stats, but the difference is negligible, except for TDs, which I assume matter to most of us. :D

And Coach Slaughter thinks experience this year could help Smith's FUTURE Sophomore, Junior, and Senior years. And Coach Holtz can't say enough that Higgins is our starter. With the last sentence as the most important, I'd say Higgins is our starter.

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Higgins, intercepted twice versus MEAC (almost 3 times, but it was dropped). J'Mar intercepted once versus SEC. Advantage, J'Mar.

Higgins will get a chance to show what he's got this week. Granted, Texas Tech's defense is well...if you ask someone in Lubbock what is "defense" they will answer: da fence is something around the yard to keep the dog in.

BUT! as bad as they are on defense, Texas Tech is not a MEAC football team. So, it will be a much tougher test for Higgins and our offense. But, not as tough as what Arkansas offered. I expect us to score 40 (or so) and for our QB to have 350+ yards and 3 TDs, at least. We will see better defenses in conference play then we will see this weekend.

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Originally Posted by Bearpaw

Higgins, intercepted twice versus MEAC (almost 3 times, but it was dropped). J'Mar intercepted once versus SEC. Advantage, J'Mar.

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I think there's room for BOTH QB's on this 2016 team.

IMO, this team can benefit tremendously from Higgins' senior experience and leadership, as well as Smith's youth, athleticism and enthusiasm. Higgins has been in our "system" for 5 years now, longer than any Tech QB I can remember in recent history. His knowledge of our playbook is unmatched. For the last 3 years Higgins has also been under the tutelage of former NFL QB Tim Rattay, and I promise you he has learned a lot since 2013.

On the other hand, I agree that Smith shows enormous promise and upside. Against Arkansas, Smith made good decisions, protected the football and moved the offense. He wasn't perfect....e.g., he overthrew his deep receivers and had a pic of his own...but for the most part, he did EXACTLY what we asked of him. That's outstanding for a redshirt freshman.

I'm grateful that LA Tech has TWO (2) good QB's in 2016. Many of our peers can't even find one. Yet, we're blessed with two. I think there will be times this season when Smith's on-field athleticism excites us all, and gives us something to look forward to. But I also believe there will be certain times this season when this entire team will turn to Higgins for the senior leadership and guidance that it needs.

To me, the thing that isn't getting mentioned is that Smith can RUN! Higgins is mobile and moves well but Smith is a bonafide dual threat.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

I think there's room for BOTH QB's on this 2016 team.
I'm grateful that LA Tech has TWO (2) good QB's in 2016.

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Gene Johnson/Sam Hughes. The most success either had with the team was when both were playing. Can this staff work that magic?

Higgins started second half. 5 straight drives-- 5 straight scores-- 27 points

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

Higgins started second half. 5 straight drives-- 5 straight scores-- 27 points

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Against a MEAC school that probably couldn't beat Parkway or Neville. We'll see this weekend if Higgins has really improved.

My take, as of 9/16/16 on the eve of the Texas Tech game is this: UNPROVEN

First, Higgins...he has NOT performed at the level we need from our QB vs. good competition.

Higgins had starts, and saw action vs. good competition back in 2013 and failed miserably. He also had some snaps in other games since then, and showed nothing. At this point we still don't know if he has turned the corner and has become a "good" QB. We will know a lot more after tomorrow's game.

Next, Smith....he did "okay" as a freshman vs. an SEC team.

In the 2nd half Arkansas adjusted its defense and we managed just 2 FGs. His overall stats for the game were okay, but not so much in the 2nd half. While his performance was acceptable, it does not mean it will translate into the type of production we need over a full 12-game season, especially in conference play when opposing DCs will have a lot of video to dissect and game-plan against him. Smith = a big unknown.

If you are honest, you recognize this is where we are as of today, prior to game 3 of the 2016 season.

I think dawg80 hit the real point here. J'Mar played a vanilla offense against a good SEC team. Higgins played a varied offense against a MEAC team. We really have no idea at this point.

We have options though if something bad were to happen as far as results or injury. That's not a bad place to be. I'm going to trust the coaching staff on this one for now. It's just too early to tell the difference.

I'm thinkin' Colby Cameron. HMMMMMMM

Some of you BTB guys have probably see the mention, but on the show Tuesday Ford said he asked HCSH how much of the playbook J'Mar had run compared to Higgins. He said 20%. That leaves a lot of our offense not being run.

How much better would we have done at Arkansas with just 50% of the playbook?

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

Some of you BTB guys have probably see the mention, but on the show Tuesday Ford said he asked HCSH how much of the playbook J'Mar had run compared to Higgins. He said 20%. That leaves a lot of our offense not being run.

How much better would we have done at Arkansas with just 50% of the playbook?

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Attachment 13692

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

Some of you BTB guys have probably see the mention, but on the show Tuesday Ford said he asked HCSH how much of the playbook J'Mar had run compared to Higgins. He said 20%. That leaves a lot of our offense not being run.

How much better would we have done at Arkansas with just 50% of the playbook?

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You buy that? That sounds like a coaching failure. The guy has been here for a year!

Sounds like QB controversy squelching propaganda. Give it up Skip, the controversy lives.

And to answer your question, apparently, we had 100% of the play-book on the bench. If your insinuation that more of the play-book would've won the game, it's baffling that we didn't employ it. Higgins' stated punishment was satisfied by the 2nd quarter.

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Originally Posted by OLDBLUE

I'm thinkin' Colby Cameron. HMMMMMMM

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As in "for who?" For Higgins? Well, Cameron went something like 450 straight passes without an INT., an NCAA record, I think. If not, mighty damn good! Higgins has already thrown 2, should have been 3, vs. a MEAC team!

If Higgins gets within 75% of Cameron's production we'll win 8 or 9 games this year (maybe 10). But, I just don't see that happening. Hope it does though!

After watching both games in person. Higgins is a better overall QB than Smith (at this time). Smith is a better athlete than Higgins and may well develop into a better QB thru patience and knowledge of system. I support HCSH and his experience over all the controversy theorists on this board. Agreeing with Ford and his guest, I was disappointed in our student section for their classless chanting for Smith during last weeks game. Way too early for that kind of crap. Go Dawgs !!!!

People keep mentioning a short leash. How many interceptions do you get on a short leash? 2, 3, 4? 2 in the fist half? If Higgins gives up 2 in the first half what happens? What should happen?

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Originally Posted by Wade_Antley

People keep mentioning a short leash. How many interceptions do you get on a short leash? 2, 3, 4? 2 in the fist half? If Higgins gives up 2 in the first half what happens? What should happen?

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It would depend on the situation. If he makes the right read, but the defender makes a great play, it's okay. If the ball hits a receiver in the hands and bounces out and is picked, it's okay. But if he's forcing balls, mis-reading the defense, and just generally being careless with ball consistently, it's very concerning. This is the part Higgins has struggled with and supposedly outgrown. But we saw a couple of those plays last week. The leash shortens. The length of the leash depends on the confidence the staff has in the backup. Can Higgins learn every week, or do we go with someone else?

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Originally Posted by ETxBullDawg

After watching both games in person. Higgins is a better overall QB than Smith (at this time). Smith is a better athlete than Higgins and may well develop into a better QB thru patience and knowledge of system. I support HCSH and his experience over all the controversy theorists on this board. Agreeing with Ford and his guest, I was disappointed in our student section for their classless chanting for Smith during last weeks game. Way too early for that kind of crap. Go Dawgs !!!!

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Thanks for your input. I can't believe how so many on BBB seem to be saying that Skip is lying about Ryan. Come on guys, Skip has brought this program back. His recruiting is great. The team loves him. Why are so many second guessing Skip? Sit back and cool off until we see what happens in Lubbock! We shall see what happens.

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Originally Posted by Docman5

Why are so many second guessing Skip?

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Cause they jock sniffers

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

I think there's room for BOTH QB's on this 2016 team.

IMO, this team can benefit tremendously from Higgins' senior experience and leadership, as well as Smith's youth, athleticism and enthusiasm. Higgins has been in our "system" for 5 years now, longer than any Tech QB I can remember in recent history. His knowledge of our playbook is unmatched. For the last 3 years Higgins has also been under the tutelage of former NFL QB Tim Rattay, and I promise you he has learned a lot since 2013.

On the other hand, I agree that Smith shows enormous promise and upside. Against Arkansas, Smith made good decisions, protected the football and moved the offense. He wasn't perfect....e.g., he overthrew his deep receivers and had a pic of his own...but for the most part, he did EXACTLY what we asked of him. That's outstanding for a redshirt freshman.

I'm grateful that LA Tech has TWO (2) good QB's in 2016. Many of our peers can't even find one. Yet, we're blessed with two. I think there will be times this season when Smith's on-field athleticism excites us all, and gives us something to look forward to. But I also believe there will be certain times this season when this entire team will turn to Higgins for the senior leadership and guidance that it needs.

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Someone tell HD his account has been hacked :laugh:

Love the quotes from Coach Holtz and Higgins about the "fringe element" trying to create QB controversy. On what planet does a fan base second guessing the Head coach-- qb coach and OC help team morale?? basically ill-informed second guessers is how and coach handles it-- " do NOT listen to the Naysayers -- its just outside noise-we are a team and Higgins is our guy shut out the wannabe second guessers" That is how every coach handles "outside noise".

5 straight drive in second half we scored ( 27 points) and qb needs to be benched?? it would be funny if it was not so sad/ridiculous.... when /if coach decides to change I go with coach. my only input would be seeing next generation qb developing in blowout games....

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Originally Posted by Wade_Antley

People keep mentioning a short leash. How many interceptions do you get on a short leash? 2, 3, 4? 2 in the fist half? If Higgins gives up 2 in the first half what happens? What should happen?

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See if he corrects it. Arkansas's Austin Allen had 2 against us in the first half. They kept him in. Why? He was still their best overall choice. Higgins had 2 this past weekend in the first half. We kept him in, he adjusted and had a good 3rd quarter.

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Originally Posted by Docman5

Thanks for your input. I can't believe how so many on BBB seem to be saying that Skip is lying about Ryan. Come on guys, Skip has brought this program back. His recruiting is great. The team loves him. Why are so many second guessing Skip? Sit back and cool off until we see what happens in Lubbock! We shall see what happens.

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BBB is known to run people out of town ;)

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

Someone tell HD his account has been hacked :laugh:

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HD has been a very sensible guy this season.

for me a thread like this is totally disrespectfull to Coach Holtz-- Tim Rattay-- Coach Todd. these guys put 100 plus hrs a week combined and have earned our confidence and respect. Coach and Tim have spent years with Ryan and now the backups -- understand, during game I get frustrated and second guess like any true fan but I have never felt I was better qualified to make decisions than the coaches... Coach does not owe me explaination on anything.

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

for me a thread like this is totally disrespectfull to Coach Holtz-- Tim Rattay-- Coach Todd. these guys put 100 plus hrs a week combined and have earned our confidence and respect. Coach and Tim have spent years with Ryan and now the backups -- understand, during game I get frustrated and second guess like any true fan but I have never felt I was better qualified to make decisions than the coaches... Coach does not owe me explaination on anything.

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It's not disrespectful, it's called Monday Morning Quarterbacking: "a person who criticizes or suggests alternative courses of action from a position of hindsight after the event in question." EVERY fan of EVERY sport in EVERY country could do it better than their coach. It's why message boards were invented!

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

Love the quotes from Coach Holtz and Higgins about the "fringe element" trying to create QB controversy. ....

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Agreed, the first interception was on 3rd and 20 from midfield area and the ball was tipped, HCSH gave him a pass on that one. The interception in the end zone was a terrible decision, one even Drew Brees has made, and he should be graded down severely but the student body starting catcalls was piss poor. The momentum changing interception Smith threw against Arkansas was a game changer but "controversialists" don't seem to want to bring up how poor that read and decision were. Higgins lost us points but Smith gave up points via turnover.

With the way Texas Tech plays, it's likely that most if not all our turnovers will become points. Hopefully their defense is worse than SC St.

Although I have not called for J'Mar to become the starter, I am as proud to be a part of the "fringe element" as I am to be a "deplorable".:D

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

Although I have not called for J'Mar to become the starter, I am as proud to be a part of the "fringe element" as I am to be a "deplorable".:D

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Sounds like the same basket to me! :laugh: Maybe HCSH is a flaming liberal.

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Originally Posted by Dogsince65

for me a thread like this is totally disrespectfull to Coach Holtz-- Tim Rattay-- Coach Todd. these guys put 100 plus hrs a week combined and have earned our confidence and respect. Coach and Tim have spent years with Ryan and now the backups -- understand, during game I get frustrated and second guess like any true fan but I have never felt I was better qualified to make decisions than the coaches... Coach does not owe me explaination on anything.

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You and the coaches need to get over it. Controversy means that PEOPLE CARE!!! If people don't care, then you have a reason to worry. See ULM!