Spoon

I haven't really weighed in on this discussion until now, but I wanted to clear up the misconceptions some have on intolerance and Christians. If someone professes to be a Christian and preaches hate and intolerance, they are not a Christian. I am tolerant of everyone that has different beliefs, but if asked, I will proudly share what I believe to be true. This doesn't mean I think I am better than anyone, just that I have discovered the truth and want to share it with everyone to decide for themselves if they want to follow.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Hearsay within hearsay. If given the opportunity to question him, maybe he could convince me.

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That is why I said to research the subject. The life of Simon Peter has been studied by many historians on both sides.

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Originally Posted by deadawg

That is why I said to research the subject. The life of Simon Peter has been studied by many historians on both sides.

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But none of that lends sufficient weight to really evaluate the veracity of his statements. And when you make a highly improbable claim, lots is needed to back that up. It would be a lengthy deposition.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

But none of that lends sufficient weight to really evaluate the veracity of his statements. And when you make a highly improbable claim, lots is needed to back that up. It would be a lengthy deposition.

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I agree with that. I feel like there is enough evidence to support the it.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

There has always been religion. Christianity wouldn't have had a shot without Judaism, as well as Greek/roman/Egyptian religions.

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Sure, but existence doesn't mean equality. Judaism was the foundation of Christianity. They were one in the same until the Jews rejected the Messiah. The Old Testament prophecies are one of the most powerful evidences of the validity of Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

But none of that lends sufficient weight to really evaluate the veracity of his statements. And when you make a highly improbable claim, lots is needed to back that up. It would be a lengthy deposition.

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Originally Posted by deadawg

I agree with that. I feel like there is enough evidence to support the it.

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It's a confluence of evidence thing for me…the most powerful evidence being my personal testimony. I understand the lack of understanding by those who haven't had an encounter with Christ. That changes everything…just ask Paul. It then becomes evidence that bolsters and confirms personal experience. It is my fervent prayer that CG and CH will experience it at the right time (as Paul would say).

Johnny- as you know, I was saved (at your house) and then chose to be baptized at age 13 (also baptized at birth). I definitely had an experience that led me to that decision, but I have a hard time differentiating between spiritual and emotional.
The older I have gotten, the more this subject has intrigued me. I have read countless books from both points of view, including most of the Bible, and I find that I have a hard time believing the Bible word for word, story for story. I am not out to disprove the Bible as I believe it holds some truth, but Guisslapp's post sums up my view pretty accurately:

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Actually, it sounds exactly like what prehistoric man, without having the benefit of centuries of scientific and philosophical learning, would have thought a god would be - petty and jealous. But it does not sound like the behavior of an omnipotent and all-knowing god. It just had a very unsophisticated feel to it. This gets back to my point about how the more times I have read the bible, or parts thereof, the less easy it is to believe that these are actually divine revelations. They read far more like a collection of related stories of unenlightened man trying to understand the universe, define a value system, and provide for an instrument to effect societal change.

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This is also intriguing:

http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-c...re-date-jesus/

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

I prefer to read about science from scientists instead of journalists.

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He interviewed many scientist and merely recorded what they said. Also, you are debating on this board with many people that aren't scientist. Why not take on all the people that Lee Strobel interviewed and see what you think?

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Originally Posted by sharky

He interviewed many scientist and merely recorded what they said. Also, you are debating on this board with many people that aren't scientist. Why not take on all the people that Lee Strobel interviewed and see what you think?

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Actual respected scientists or selected sort-of scientists and former science graduates turned theologians that would help him construct straw man arguments?

Anyone who denies evolution is just a quack. Once one goes down that road, it is hard if not impossible to take anything else one says seriously.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Actual respected scientists or selected sort-of scientists and former science graduates turned theologians that would help him construct straw man arguments?

Anyone who denies evolution is just a quack. Once one goes down that road, it is hard if not impossible to take anything else one says seriously.

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Find the unprovable statements of faith in the post above.

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Originally Posted by Champ967

Find the unprovable statements of faith in the post above.

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Do you believe in evolution?

I wonder who will replace Spoon. I also wonder where Spoon will go.

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Originally Posted by Chris29

Do you believe in evolution?

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Microevolution and adaptation, yes. One need only to look at champion110's freakish cats to believe that.

But Macroevolution and specieization from less to more complex forms, no. This militates against demonstrable laws of thermodynamics and entropy.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Actual respected scientists or selected sort-of scientists and former science graduates turned theologians that would help him construct straw man arguments?

Anyone who denies evolution is just a quack. Once one goes down that road, it is hard if not impossible to take anything else one says seriously.

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So what I think you're saying is that there is no evidence or testimony that will convince you otherwise. Because the testimony of anyone who believes in God is negated by their belief in God.

Is that right?

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Originally Posted by Champ967

This militates against demonstrable laws of thermodynamics and entropy.

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No it doesn't. Just your understanding of the second law.