Covid - 19 - Louisiana Edition

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Most prescription drugs are not "safe" and that's why they are prescription drugs...which is why the evaluation process is important.

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Do you know how many prescription drugs are taken on a daily basis? This is an idiotic position. I'm sorry. I know you are just dug in and trying to defend a position but be realistic. Even OTC drugs are dangerous under the right conditions (or wrong conditions). We are not talking about handing them out like candy. No one has ever suggested that. To imply otherwise is ridiculous.

You guys are going to have to give me an example of something you consider safe? Any medicines or drugs you think qualify.

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Originally Posted by detltu

Do you know how many prescription drugs are taken on a daily basis? This is an idiotic position. I'm sorry. I know you are just dug in and trying to defend a position but be realistic. Even OTC drugs are dangerous under the right conditions (or wrong conditions). We are not talking about handing them out like candy. No one has ever suggested that. To imply otherwise is ridiculous.

You guys are going to have to give me an example of something you consider safe? Any medicines or drugs you think qualify.

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It feels like you’re responding to something I didn’t say.

Are you saying it’s idiotic to have a rigorous evaluation process from approved drug uses?

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Those that put 10 percent of the people in a “danger zone” for serious cardiac complications wouldn’t be. Is that most prescription drugs?

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It's an opinion not a fact that there is a 10% danger zone. No doctor is going to prescribe this drug to a patient who has the cardiac issues that are described on the warning label.

Inexpensive is available. That bothers many more that the supposed and undocumented dangers of taking it.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

It's an opinion not a fact that there is a 10% danger zone. No doctor is going to prescribe this drug to a patient who has the cardiac issues that are described on the warning label.

Inexpensive is available. That bothers many more that the supposed and undocumented dangers of taking it.

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The medical opinion of a well qualified doctor, which outweighs the opinion of POTUS (where the P doesn’t mean Pharmacologist).

Btw, the drug is now available for COVID, which is a non indicated use, but some patients with lupus and RA are struggling to get the drug that they use for their treatment.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

The medical opinion of a well qualified doctor, which outweighs the opinion of POTUS (where the P doesn’t mean Pharmacologist).

Btw, the drug is now available for COVID, which is a non indicated use, but some patients with lupus and RA are struggling to get the drug that they use for their treatment.

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More lies...Lupus and RA patients may not be able to run down to Walmart or Walgreens and pick it up for $2, but they can get it. It's not running short.

You have one "well qualified Doctor". I have several "well qualified Doctors". Trump did too, well before he made the statement.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

More lies...Lupus and RA patients may not be able to run down to Walmart or Walgreens and pick it up for $2, but they can get it. It's not running short.

You have one "well qualified Doctor". I have several "well qualified Doctors". Trump did too, well before he made the statement.

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...9-pandemic.amp

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

It feels like you’re responding to something I didn’t say.

Are you saying it’s idiotic to have a rigorous evaluation process from approved drug uses?

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Nope I'm responding to exactly what you said. "Most prescription drugs are not safe and that's why they are prescription drugs."

Again no one has been saying these drugs should be handed out like candy. The President has not said everyone with Covid-19 should be on this drug. People have latched on to the word safe as if it is somehow misleading when talking about this drug. There are people taking it for RA for goodness sake. While RA can have complications itself that can lead to life threatening conditions we are talking about a disease that is killing people.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox...9-pandemic.amp

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I guess they should be thankful they aren't having this unsafe drug shoved down their throats. Certainly it's going to be harder to find with more and more people using the drug. That is not unexpected. I suspect they are ramping up production. I'm not sure I believe that it's quite as hard to come by as the story makes it sound though. Hopefully everyone who needs it is able to get it and people aren't over-prescribing it.

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Originally Posted by detltu

I guess they should be thankful they aren't having this unsafe drug shoved down their throats. Certainly it's going to be harder to find with more and more people using the drug. That is not unexpected. I suspect they are ramping up production. I'm not sure I believe that it's quite as hard to come by as the story makes it sound though. Hopefully everyone who needs it is able to get it and people aren't over-prescribing it.

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They take smaller doses and don’t have contraindications, in general.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

They take smaller doses and don’t have contraindications, in general.

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And no one here is recommending a dosage or giving it to people with contraindications.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

They take smaller doses and don’t have contraindications, in general.

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I thought the doses were similar to that for lupus. Maybe twice the first day but then the same dose, though I could be wrong. They also take the medication for a shorter period of time and I would assume the doctor would address any contraindications.

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Originally Posted by detltu

Nope I'm responding to exactly what you said. "Most prescription drugs are not safe and that's why they are prescription drugs."

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You think that’s idiotic?

And I’m the one that’s “dug in”?

Ha!

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Originally Posted by MoonPieBlue

I thought the doses were similar to that for lupus. Maybe twice the first day but then the same dose, though I could be wrong. They also take the medication for a shorter period of time and I would assume the doctor would address any contraindications.

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I haven't seen the doses for Covid. Lupus is on the low end of the spectrum for dosing. RA is about 2x the lupus dose. Malaria is the highest but for a short while (for treating it), it's very low dose as a preventative. I would be surprised if the recommended dose is higher than RA.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

You think that’s idiotic?

And I’m the one that’s “dug in”?

Ha!

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Yes, to imply they are not safe is idiotic and disingenuous. Again, OTC drugs are dangerous if not used as directed. To say a drug that is only available with a prescription is unsafe implies that it is unsafe even when used as directed. Come out of your bunker. You guys find some of the most dumbass hills to die on sometimes.

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Originally Posted by detltu

I haven't seen the doses for Covid. Lupus is on the low end of the spectrum for dosing. RA is about 2x the lupus dose. Malaria is the highest but for a short while (for treating it), it's very low dose as a preventative. I would be surprised if the recommended dose is higher than RA.

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Here's one article that provides some dosing: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

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Originally Posted by detltu

Yes, to imply they are not safe is idiotic and disingenuous. Again, OTC drugs are dangerous if not used as directed. To say a drug that is only available with a prescription is unsafe implies that it is unsafe even when used as directed. Come out of your bunker. You guys find some of the most dumbass hills to die on sometimes.

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Those implications are not things I said. TDSDS?

Looks like it.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Those implications are not things I said. TDSDS?

Looks like it.

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"not safe"

TDS indeed.

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Originally Posted by detltu

"not safe"

TDS indeed.

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They’re not safe. That’s why they have a highly trained medical professional instructing in use.

Why do you think they are by prescription only?

You’re right, many OTC drugs are unsafe if misused (which many are).

That’s why there is a process for approved uses. This isn’t a hill to die on except for Trumpists who just want their guy to be right about SOMETHING surrounding this virus. He may be...once the process plays out, we’ll know.

And something specifically related to the thread. The Advocate goes out on a limb indicating that commuters may have help spread the virus. Can't imagine how they came up with that idea.

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_ro...29213c596.html

Looks like schools will remain closed for the remainder of the school year.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Looks like schools will remain closed for the remainder of the school year.

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Curious about the LEAP test administered to 8th graders, passing of which is a requirement to move on to the 9th, and also graduating seniors from HS have to pass a similar test to be awarded a diploma. Said tests have been given in April in the past. So, I assume no 8th and 12th graders in the state have had the opportunity to take it.

I am no longer involved in K-12 education, so I will have to check on this.

Waved! all required, standarized tests, the ones that for years were the bellweather to determine if a student actually knew something, have conveniently been waved. How nice. Guess they aren't so important after all...

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Originally Posted by dawg80

April 13

21,016 cases 884 deaths testing rate at 19.4%

2,134 hosp 461 on ventilators

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April 14

21,518 cases 1,013 deaths positive testing rate at 18.2%
1,977 in hosp 436 on ventilators

Seeing some positive trends....

I was our worst day in terms of deaths though ... by a lot. I am glad to see the case load is dropping some but I think we are hitting our highs for deaths. I have noticed a Monday bump in cases and deaths each week leading into this week. Hopefully the death count today was anomalously high.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...55&oe=5EBB90B6
Poking around at the parishes, New Orleans is seeing a much better trend. Baton Rouge is trending flatter. Rural parishes around the cities are starting to see rises in cases and deaths. That is just my assessment.

We are at 227 deaths per million in LA
Italy is 348
Spain is 386

If the US eventually ended up at that rate we have in Louisiana now (we are not done) it would be 75,000 dead. I think a lot of rural areas will be spared that rate of infection/death.

FWIW, the trend down in deaths is laboriously slow compared to the ramp up in countries like Italy and Spain. It will be interesting to see what the curve looks like towards the end.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...01&oe=5EBAF46E

The report my wife saw said that state labs were closed over the weekend. The numbers from today are either a 2 or 3 day report.

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Originally Posted by techman05

The report my wife saw said that state labs were closed over the weekend. The numbers from today are either a 2 or 3 day report.

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The commercial labs were not and they are pushing out the vast majority of the tests

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Why do you think they are by prescription only?

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Because that's what makes them safe!

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

You’re right, many OTC drugs are unsafe if misused (which many are).

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Thank you

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

That’s why there is a process for approved uses.

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Thank you. Exactly

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

This isn’t a hill to die on except for Trumpists who just want their guy to be right about SOMETHING surrounding this virus.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

He may be...once the process plays out, we’ll know.

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You have this part exactly backwards. Really ask yourself if you would be arguing so vehemently that a prescription drug taken as directed by a doctor is not safe if Trump hadn't suggested it could help with this pandemic. Your TDS has you so twisted up that you are arguing semantics to desperately prove that Trump was "wrong again". You want to argue he did a bad job responding to this pandemic- fine there is miles of room for debate about that and it will be debated about for years to come. Making

We will certainly find out whether it is effective in treating COVID. I can promise you if Trump ignored it you and Guiss would be complaining about Trump sitting on his hands while France, and China and others are using an existing, established drug and showing promising results.

I am totally okay with the FDA allowing doctors to prescribe this to treat COVID. This is an emergency with no known treatment.

Pimping the treatment from the bully pulpit of the presidency is out of line.

Telling people that it is “safe” is just not true. Nor is saying that no one has died from it - like Pawdawg did.

The jury is out whether it is effective or not, which is to be expected at a time like this. Designing clinical trials is not the highest priority.

The reason why Trump promotes this treatment - it was first pimped by Tucker Carlson.

Which is really just a microcosm with what is wrong with this presidency. So much of his policy and commentary is driven by right wing media rather than the experts.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

I am totally okay with the FDA allowing doctors to prescribe this to treat COVID. This is an emergency with no known treatment.

Pimping the treatment from the bully pulpit of the presidency is out of line.

Telling people that it is “safe” is just not true. Nor is saying that no one has died from it - like Pawdawg did.

The jury is out whether it is effective or not, which is to be expected at a time like this. Designing clinical trials is not the highest priority.

The reason why Trump promotes this treatment - it was first pimped by Tucker Carlson.

Which is really just a microcosm with what is wrong with this presidency. So much of his policy and commentary is driven by right wing media rather than the experts.

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This drug that has everyone so up in arms, is given to EVERY member of the US Military when they are deployed overseas... along with a list of others.. not discretionary, but mandatory.. but I'm sure that the experts on here already knew that..

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Originally Posted by detltu

Really ask yourself if you would be arguing so vehemently that a prescription drug taken as directed by a doctor is not safe if Trump hadn't suggested it could help with this pandemic. Your TDS has you so twisted up that you are arguing semantics to desperately prove that Trump was "wrong again". You want to argue he did a bad job responding to this pandemic- fine there is miles of room for debate about that and it will be debated about for years to come.

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Arguing vehemently? Looks like you and I define SAFE and VEHEMENCE differently. After all, you and I entered into this discussion because of your semantics around the word SAFE.

I have no interest in showing that Trump was wrong. He's been so wrong on so much, that one more thing doesn't move the needle. It's fun to point out here because he's so, nearly universally, worshipped on this board.

I agree with Guiss about the use of the drug. I probably disagree with him about the severity of the issue with Trump talking out of school about it. Anyone who would trust his medical opinion on something is so detached from reality that arguing with them does no good. Sort of like people arguing that Trump has "total authority"...it's just laughable. Not worth an argument...unless I happen to be bored.

Ultimately, I feel like you're projecting. I'll never know for sure, but you called me an idiot for saying that prescription drugs are not "safe"...which is not debatable unless you're playing semantic games in an effort to paint your opponent as deranged.

And to think, I actually entertained investing some of my money....Gawd! and Whew!

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Originally Posted by FriscoDog

This drug that has everyone so up in arms, is given to EVERY member of the US Military when they are deployed overseas... along with a list of others.. not discretionary, but mandatory.. but I'm sure that the experts on here already knew that..

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Is it still give to the military? I thought they changed the anti-malaria drug to something with less side effects?

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Is it still give to the military? I thought they changed the anti-malaria drug to something with less side effects?

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Can't speak of lately, but the side effects we had we claimed were due to the fact that they (Military) shot you full of so many different things at one time, that if you did suffer any side effects, you had no idea which one it came from.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Pimping the treatment from the bully pulpit of the presidency is out of line.

Telling people that it is “safe” is just not true.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Arguing vehemently? Looks like you and I define SAFE and VEHEMENCE differently. After all, you and I entered into this discussion because of your semantics around the word SAFE.

I have no interest in showing that Trump was wrong. He's been so wrong on so much, that one more thing doesn't move the needle. It's fun to point out here because he's so, nearly universally, worshipped on this board.

I agree with Guiss about the use of the drug. I probably disagree with him about the severity of the issue with Trump talking out of school about it. Anyone who would trust his medical opinion on something is so detached from reality that arguing with them does no good. Sort of like people arguing that Trump has "total authority"...it's just laughable. Not worth an argument...unless I happen to be bored.

Ultimately, I feel like you're projecting. I'll never know for sure, but you called me an idiot for saying that prescription drugs are not "safe"...which is not debatable unless you're playing semantic games in an effort to paint your opponent as deranged.

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You contradict yourself in your own statements. You are partially correct that it is not debatable. Prescription drugs when taken as directed by a doctor are safe otherwise they would never be approved for use. It's literally the whole point of the FDA. I will bow out of this discussion so you and Guiss can untie yourselves and go back to your regularly scheduled nonsense.

Four people might have died from it over a 60 year period. Extremely safe

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

Four people might have died from it over a 60 year period. Extremely safe

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4 people died from it in France, alone, being treated for Coronavirus.


But there is a new paper coming out now.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...551v1.full.pdf

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Worryingly, significant risks are identified for combination users of HCQ+AZM even in the short-term as proposed for COVID19 management, with a 15-20% increased risk of angina/chest pain and heart failure, and a two-fold risk of cardiovascular mortality in the first month of treatment.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

4 people died from it in France, alone, being treated for Coronavirus.


But there is a new paper coming out now.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...551v1.full.pdf

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Actress Rita Wilson can confirm that chloroquine doesn't help but does have potential side effects. https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/enter...rus/index.html

"I can only tell you that I don't know if the drug worked or if it was just time for the fever to break," she said. "The fever did break, but the chloroquine had such extreme side effects. I was completely nauseous and I had vertigo and my muscles felt very weak. I think people have to be very considerate about that drug. We don't really know if it is helpful in this case."

Nah it couldn't have been the chloroquine that brought down the fever but it definitely caused the nauseous, vertigo and muscle weakness no chance that had anything to do with coronavirus :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

4 people died from it in France, alone, being treated for Coronavirus.


But there is a new paper coming out now.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...551v1.full.pdf

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No, they didn't die from the drug. They died from SARS II. They had it and as we know if you die, and you have it, you died from the new virus.

Some fellow was crossing a street after dark and got hit and killed by a car. He had tested positive for the new virus, SARS II, and therefore he died from the virus. Oh, and it was all Trump's fault.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

4 people died from it in France, alone, being treated for Coronavirus.


But there is a new paper coming out now.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...551v1.full.pdf

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That paper is merely a compilation of a literature review of other studies and reports. It states:

Our results suggest that long-term use of HCQ leads to an increased risk of cardiovascular mortality, with no observable excess risk of major cardiovascular events or diagnosed bradycardia. Considering the current evidence, this may relate to cumulative effects of HCQ leading to an increased risk of QT lengthening or relate to the moderately increased risk of angina and heart failure seen. However, as the strong association observed with cardiovascular death is not observed with diagnosed arrhythmia or bradycardia in this study, sudden cardiovascular death here is more likely due to QT lengthening and undetected and/or sudden torsade-de-pointes. Although long-term treatment with HCQ is not expected for the management of COVID-19, some research suggests that higher doses as prescribed for COVID-19 can, even in the short-term, lead to equivalent side effects given the long half-life of HCQ.49

The article they cite as saying potential short-term is

49. Chatre C, Roubille F, Vernhet H, Jorgensen C, Pers YM. Cardiac Complications Attributed to Chloroquineand Hydroxychloroquine: A Systematic Review of the Literature. Drug Saf 2018;41:919-31.

It states: "Most patients had been treated for a long time (median 7 years, minimum 3 days; maximum 35 years) and with a high cumulative dose (median 1235 g for hydroxychloroquine and 803 g for chloroquine). "

With conclusions:

CONCLUSIONS:

Clinicians should be warned that chloroquine- or hydroxychloroquine-related cardiac manifestations, even conduction disorders without repercussion, may be initial manifestations of toxicity, and are potentially irreversible. Therefore, treatment withdrawal is required when cardiac manifestations are present.

I don't know if what's presented in the link I found (https://link.springer.com/article/10...264-018-0689-4) is the complete report but if not its only available by subscription.

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Originally Posted by MoonPieBlue

That paper is merely a compilation of a literature review of other studies and reports. It states:

Our results suggest that long-term use of HCQ leads to an increased risk of cardiovascular mortality, with no observable excess risk of major cardiovascular events or diagnosed bradycardia. Considering the current evidence, this may relate to cumulative effects of HCQ leading to an increased risk of QT lengthening or relate to the moderately increased risk of angina and heart failure seen. However, as the strong association observed with cardiovascular death is not observed with diagnosed arrhythmia or bradycardia in this study, sudden cardiovascular death here is more likely due to QT lengthening and undetected and/or sudden torsade-de-pointes. Although long-term treatment with HCQ is not expected for the management of COVID-19, some research suggests that higher doses as prescribed for COVID-19 can, even in the short-term, lead to equivalent side effects given the long half-life of HCQ.49

The article they cite as saying potential short-term is

49. Chatre C, Roubille F, Vernhet H, Jorgensen C, Pers YM. Cardiac Complications Attributed to Chloroquineand Hydroxychloroquine: A Systematic Review of the Literature. Drug Saf 2018;41:919-31.

It states: "Most patients had been treated for a long time (median 7 years, minimum 3 days; maximum 35 years) and with a high cumulative dose (median 1235 g for hydroxychloroquine and 803 g for chloroquine). "

With conclusions:

CONCLUSIONS:

Clinicians should be warned that chloroquine- or hydroxychloroquine-related cardiac manifestations, even conduction disorders without repercussion, may be initial manifestations of toxicity, and are potentially irreversible. Therefore, treatment withdrawal is required when cardiac manifestations are present.

I don't know if what's presented in the link I found (https://link.springer.com/article/10...264-018-0689-4) is the complete report but if not its only available by subscription.

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It is an international compilation. It is the comments on the combined therapy of HCQ + ZPac, which is the widely used therapy that is being tried, is more problematic because they BOTH contribute to QT lengthening, making the promoted therapy more risky than either drug alone.

And as pointed out in your quote -

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Although long-term treatment with HCQ is not expected for the management of COVID-19, some research suggests that higher doses as prescribed for COVID-19 can, even in the short-term, lead to equivalent side effects given the long half-life of HCQ.

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Thus higher doses of HCQ, even without Zpac, can cause heart issues. Patients should be monitored on EKG and should be taken off the HCQ if QT lengthening is seen.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

It is an international compilation. It is the comments on the combined therapy of HCQ + ZPac, which is the widely used therapy that is being tried, is more problematic because they BOTH contribute to QT lengthening, making the promoted therapy more risky than either drug alone.

And as pointed out in your quote -



Thus higher doses of HCQ, even without Zpac, can cause heart issues. Patients should be monitored on EKG and should be taken off the HCQ if QT lengthening is seen.

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Yes, but the paper they cite makes no mention of it, at least what I've seen. I'm not arguing that there is the potential for someone to be effected by HCQ or HCQ + ZPAC, just as there is the potential for any drug (OTC or prescribed). That's what the doctor's for to judge the potential harm versus the benefit. In fact, I didn't make any statement but merely pulled what I thought were relevant parts of the report. Needless to say I didn't read the whole article verbatim. I also didn't read their methods extensively to see the criteria used for including or excluding a report/study, the most important part of such a review. Even they say "some research suggests". 'Suggests' is the important term, it's not INDICATES it suggests.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/he...a-c4a5ffad3ffb

39 Nursing home residents successfully complete hydroxchloroquine treatment for Covid-19..


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Residents completed a five-day treatment of hydroxychloroquine and their doctor said none have experienced side effects.

What happened at a Galveston County nursing home over the last week was one of the first big tests of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients in Texas.

“I thought the risk of seeing 15% of that nursing home die was just not an acceptable,” said Dr. Robin Armstrong, MD, medical director at The Resort at Texas City.

Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills.

“Most of the patients have done well. And, you know, and I think that that is suggestive that the medication is helpful,” Armstrong told WFAA.

But notice that Armstrong qualified his answer by saying “most of the patients.”

“Well, I would say I would say all the patients have done well,” Armstrong added.

On Sunday, those 39 patients finished five days of treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Armstrong said no one experienced any side effects.

“We've got one patient now that kind of goes back and forth,” said Dr. Armstrong, “He's an older gentleman, but we're kind of nursing him through the process, but he's getting better.

Two patients receiving hydroxychloroquine have had to go to hospital for unrelated conditions, Armstrong disclosed; a woman had a fall and a man got dehydrated in his room because he was not eating and drinking.

But for the first time since this treatment began, many of those who have recovered from the virus have been able to go outside and get some fresh air over the last 48 hours, Armstrong said.

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Originally Posted by FriscoDog

https://www.khou.com/article/news/he...a-c4a5ffad3ffb

39 Nursing home residents successfully complete hydroxchloroquine treatment for Covid-19..


quote:

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Residents completed a five-day treatment of hydroxychloroquine and their doctor said none have experienced side effects.

What happened at a Galveston County nursing home over the last week was one of the first big tests of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 patients in Texas.

“I thought the risk of seeing 15% of that nursing home die was just not an acceptable,” said Dr. Robin Armstrong, MD, medical director at The Resort at Texas City.

Fifty-six residents at this senior facility in Galveston County contracted the novel coronavirus. Dr. Robin Armstrong said 39 of them gave him permission to treat them with hydroxychloroquine pills.

“Most of the patients have done well. And, you know, and I think that that is suggestive that the medication is helpful,” Armstrong told WFAA.

But notice that Armstrong qualified his answer by saying “most of the patients.”

“Well, I would say I would say all the patients have done well,” Armstrong added.

On Sunday, those 39 patients finished five days of treatment with hydroxychloroquine. Dr. Armstrong said no one experienced any side effects.

“We've got one patient now that kind of goes back and forth,” said Dr. Armstrong, “He's an older gentleman, but we're kind of nursing him through the process, but he's getting better.

Two patients receiving hydroxychloroquine have had to go to hospital for unrelated conditions, Armstrong disclosed; a woman had a fall and a man got dehydrated in his room because he was not eating and drinking.

But for the first time since this treatment began, many of those who have recovered from the virus have been able to go outside and get some fresh air over the last 48 hours, Armstrong said.

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Ah, but, within 20+ years or so most of these folks will pass away and Goosey will be here blaming the drug and by extension, TRUMP! for it! Mark it down somewhere.

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Originally Posted by dawg80

April 14

21,518 cases 1,013 deaths positive testing rate at 18.2%
1,977 in hosp 436 on ventilators

Seeing some positive trends....

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April 15

21,951 cases 1,103 deaths positive testing rate at 18.0%

1,943 in hosp 425 on ventilators

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Originally Posted by dawg80

April 15

21,951 cases 1,103 deaths positive testing rate at 18.0%

1,943 in hosp 425 on ventilators

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April 16

22,532 cases 1,156 deaths positive testing rate at 17.8% (over 126,000 tested)

1,914 in hosp 396 on ventilators

I'd like to see the numbers on how many have beaten it. For instance in Natchitoches for the first time in 4 days, our count went up. It was sitting at 42 cases, and today is 45. Yet, I hear from medical professionals that 20 people have had it, beat it, and are now free of it. I guess as "free" as medical science can determine. But those 20 are still counted in the "Number of cases" count. It should be 25 today. Or at least, have a separate metric showing how many have beaten it.

BTW Natch's positive testing rate is 7.6%. About 1/3 of the overall state's rate.

I wonder how this is affecting diagnosis In hospitals with money problems and plenty of space and equipment ? Right now Medicare is determining that if you have a Covid-19 admission to the hospital you get $13,000. If that Covid-19 patient goes on a ventilator you get $39,000, three times as much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tech70

I wonder how this is affecting diagnosis In hospitals with money problems and plenty of space and equipment ? Right now Medicare is determining that if you have a Covid-19 admission to the hospital you get $13,000. If that Covid-19 patient goes on a ventilator you get $39,000, three times as much.

---

$13K is the minimum...it can be as high as $100K.

$39K is the minimum...it can be as high as $300K.

It depends on the state and the city...it is MediCare/MediCaid driven.

Yes , saw in Nebraska it’s 300K .we are going to be so deep in debt taxes will skyrocket.

So, we got a C grade for our quarantine grade this far. They don’t know that most of the people who drive across town and into my neighborhood are doing just that, driving around. They never stop, they never speak to anyone. I waive at the same people on a weekly basis. Older folks who just want to go somewhere that brothers and sisters are playing in the yard. I know more than a few of the couples who come thru. No contact whatsoever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 16

22,532 cases 1,156 deaths positive testing rate at 17.8% (over 126,000 tested)

1,914 in hosp 396 on ventilators

---

April 17

23,118 cases 1,213 deaths testing rate at 17.5%

1,868 in hosp 363 on ventilators

Additional information:

Every death has some "underlying condition(s)." The leading condition is hypertension at 60% followed by diabetes 38%, kidney disease 23%, obesity 22%, cardiac disease 21% and some others...that adds past 100% so obviously they are not assigning one condition to each C-19 death. But, there are no cases where a death has a 0% other condition. So I guess that means every C-19 death is attributable to some other cause plus the virus. No 100% perfectly healthy person has contracted the virus and then died.

Lincoln Parish Health Dept is reporting 47 cases of cov-19 with 2 deaths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 17

23,118 cases 1,213 deaths testing rate at 17.5%

1,868 in hosp 363 on ventilators

.

---

April 18

23,580 cases 1,267 deaths test rate at 17.1%

1,761 in hosp 347 on ventilators

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BullPupN'46

Lincoln Parish Health Dept is reporting 47 cases of cov-19 with 2 deaths.

---

I've read that the 2 deaths had been reported before 4/17 but for some reason they were never appearing on the site. So these aren't new deaths. Don't know anything else about them though.

Probably nursing home deaths as they are being obscured.

I suppose wer'e gonna soon learn if social distancing has really had the effect some say. There are so many violations of it, and getting worse by the day. If there's an explosion in cases, well...

Right now the neighborhood party animals are all hugging on each other, drunk off their butts. You can always tell where they are gathered with all the golf carts parked at a house. I'm guessing at least 15-20 "adults" (use that term loosely) and another 6-8 kids all jammed under a carport, eating, drinking, sharing food from the same source, you know, a big bowl of potato chips, get spit on your hand, jam it back into the bowl...next!

Today down on the riverbank there were two gatherings, picnics, each with at least 12-15 folks.

At Stine's in their garden section, it was packed! No 6 foot distancing being observed at all. People bumping into each other while looking over the pretty flowers.

So, we shall see.

I only hope they keep it to themselves and their families, maybe then it will sink in or if not thin the herd. Cold but you can’t save those who don’t want to be saved.
I hate this for the healthcare workers and their families. I don’t have an answer for this that would be socially acceptable .
Just say a prayer for our healthcare workers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tech70

I only hope they keep it to themselves and their families, maybe then it will sink in or if not thin the herd. Cold but you can’t save those who don’t want to be saved.
I hate this for the healthcare workers and their families. I don’t have an answer for this that would be socially acceptable .
Just say a prayer for our healthcare workers.

---

And they were at it past midnight too. So much for the 10PM curfew.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 18

23,580 cases 1,267 deaths test rate at 17.1%

1,761 in hosp 347 on ventilators

---

April 19

23,928 cases 1,296 deaths testing rate at 16.9%

1,748 in hosp 349 on ventilators

Slight uptick of "on ventilators." And we're nowhere even close to being able to enter Phase 1 or reopening. We need 14 straight days of declining new cases, we're still climbing. But...actually, we don't know...someone might know, but we don't...what the true total is of "active" cases. Well, I guess when we get stuck on one number, like the current one of 23,928 cases, and it doesn't increase for 14 straight days, we'll be good to go.

It’s not going to decrease from the pictures I have seen posted. It’s like this never happened to a large group of people and for some they never followed the guide lines. Just look at the cluster areas of infection.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tech70

It’s not going to decrease from the pictures I have seen posted. It’s like this never happened to a large group of people and for some they never followed the guide lines. Just look at the cluster areas of infection.

---

Congressman Mike Johnson was interviewed and he says he is hoping to push for a localized phasing in of reopening for business. His congressional district includes Caddo, DeSoto, and Bossier, all pretty hard hit. I do think there can be some kind of regionalizing of the phase in, else the whole state will suffer with some metro areas who are particularly hard hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BullPupN'46

Lincoln Parish Health Dept is reporting 47 cases of cov-19 with 2 deaths.

---

This stat got me to look up my zip code in Dallas County. Population in my zip code is 40,500 with 17 confirmed cases or 1 case per 2,300 residents. Lincoln Parish has 46,000 folks with 47 cases or 1 case for every 1,000 residents.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 19

23,928 cases 1,296 deaths testing rate at 16.9%

1,748 in hosp 349 on ventilators

Slight uptick of "on ventilators." And we're nowhere even close to being able to enter Phase 1 or reopening. We need 14 straight days of declining new cases, we're still climbing. But...actually, we don't know...someone might know, but we don't...what the true total is of "active" cases. Well, I guess when we get stuck on one number, like the current one of 23,928 cases, and it doesn't increase for 14 straight days, we'll be good to go.

---

Since last Monday 4/13 our numbers hospitalized has dropped from 2134 to 1748 (a drop of 386). On the same date those on ventilators were 461 and as of today its 349 (a drop of 112). I know some is due to deaths but at least we're not replacing them.

Regarding new cases on 4/6 we added 1857 during that week we ranged between 746 and 1857 new cases per day. Since 4/13 we've ranged from 348 (today) to 586 (4/17). I don't know exactly how there going to look at decreasing, are sample results for the same day received back the same day, what if you have 600 cases, it drops to 570 and then the next day 571.

Overall I do think we're seeing declining numbers.

People on the vents are the ones who are dying. Those who survive and have been of vents have lung damage.

Many deaths were prevented by mitigation.

Many deaths could have prevented by focusing on those who are at risk. Instead we destroyed an economy.

Hopefully the needed and easy testing will be "rolled out" to satisfy the alarmists and some sanity will prevail in a future focus on those who are actually at risk instead of the millions who are not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

Many deaths were prevented by mitigation.

Many deaths could have prevented by focusing on those who are at risk. Instead we destroyed an economy.

---

Very true!

As PawDawg said, the key seems to be keeping people off the ventilators. Have to keep them from getting that bad if possible. We are learning more and more about this disease as time goes on. Hopefully we continue to get better at treatment.

It appears the ventilator is a condemnation to a death sentance. President Trump said as much a week+ ago when he said: the truth is people placed on ventilators are dying at a very high rate. That's when he was advocating for alternatives, like the malaria drug, over the use of ventilators. One drug not mentioned much is Diamox, used to treat altitude sickness. Now I see a doctor has posted a video, which is making the rounds being shared on FB and other Net outlets, where he warns against the use of ventilators too. Says breathing exercises, holding your arms over your head and taking deep breaths works better.

I believe medical science will eventually get it right. It's a shame many had to die to get us there.

It would be interesting to know the number who died from China Flu and already had DNRs in place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 19

23,928 cases 1,296 deaths testing rate at 16.9%

1,748 in hosp 349 on ventilators

.

---

April 20

24,538 cases 1,328 deaths testing rate at 17.3%

1,794 in hosp 332 on ventilators

A few swings in the wrong direction.

If you saw pictures on social media more cases are coming. Imho

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 20

24,538 cases 1,328 deaths testing rate at 17.3%

1,794 in hosp 332 on ventilators

---

April 21

24,854 cases 1,405 deaths testing rate at 17.5%

1,798 in hosp 297 on ventilators

Well the good news in all of this is that there is a definite downward trend on the number of people on vents..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 21

24,854 cases 1,405 deaths testing rate at 17.5%

1,798 in hosp 297 on ventilators

---

April 22


25,258 cases 1,473 deaths ** Testing rate 17.8%

1,747 in hosp 287 on ventilators

** the website has a notation on the deaths that reads "59 probable deaths". Don't see an explanation of this notation. Does this mean of the 1,473 deaths reported, only 59 are probably caused by C-19?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 22


25,258 cases 1,473 deaths ** Testing rate 17.8%

1,747 in hosp 287 on ventilators

** the website has a notation on the deaths that reads "59 probable deaths". Don't see an explanation of this notation. Does this mean of the 1,473 deaths reported, only 59 are probably caused by C-19?

---

It's on another page:

**Probable COVID deaths are deaths identified by coroners and/or physicians as COVID-19 deaths or as probable/suspected/possible COVID-19 deaths without a lab positive result. This number could change if pending test results turn out positive or negative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 22


25,258 cases 1,473 deaths ** Testing rate 17.8%

1,747 in hosp 287 on ventilators

** the website has a notation on the deaths that reads "59 probable deaths". Don't see an explanation of this notation. Does this mean of the 1,473 deaths reported, only 59 are probably caused by C-19?

---

April 23

25,739 cases 1,540 deaths test rate at 18.1%

1,727 in hosp 274 on ventilators

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 23

25,739 cases 1,540 deaths test rate at 18.1%

1,727 in hosp 274 on ventilators

---

More info being provided now...

April 24

26,140 cases with: 14,927 recovered 1,601 deaths testing rate at 18.4%

1,697 in hosp 286 on ventilators

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

More info being provided now...

April 24

26,140 cases with: 14,927 recovered 1,601 deaths testing rate at 18.4%

1,697 in hosp 286 on ventilators

---

April 25

26,512 cases with: 14,997 recovered. 1,644 deaths testing rate is up to 19.1%

1,700 in hosp 268 on vents

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 25

26,512 cases with: 14,997 recovered. 1,644 deaths testing rate is up to 19.1%

1,700 in hosp 268 on vents

---

April 26

26,773 cases 1,670 deaths testing rate at 18.7%

1,701 in hosp 265 on vents

Updating the numbers tends to lag over weekends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawg80

April 26

26,773 cases 1,670 deaths testing rate at 18.7%

1,701 in hosp 265 on vents

Updating the numbers tends to lag over weekends.

---

April 27

27,068 cases with 17,303 recovered 1,697 deaths testing rate at 18.4%

1,683 in hosp 262 on vents

So cases are spiking in Monroe. Wonder why....

https://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...15/3035403001/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

So cases are spiking in Monroe. Wonder why....

https://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...15/3035403001/

---

They aren’t. False reporting of data

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

They aren’t. False reporting of data

---

Maybe Monroe is just getting blame for region 8 parishes.

Had to have a reason to keep north of I-10 shut down. I called this one before last week. It’s easier to say stay home than to plan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Maybe Monroe is just getting blame for region 8 parishes.

---

Sorry if the format sucks. Couldn't get it to do good as a table. Here are the numbers I could find for Ouachita Parish. The pattern I see is no pattern.


12-Apr 367 -
13-Apr 384 17
14-Apr - #VALUE!
15-Apr - #VALUE!
16-Apr 429 45
17-Apr 470 41
18-Apr 483 13
19-Apr 511 28
20-Apr 518 7
21-Apr 532 14
22-Apr 552 20
23-Apr 579 27
24-Apr 598 19
25-Apr 609 11
26-Apr 622 13
27-Apr 645 23

Part of the reason is that everyone in the closed down areas ( probably the largest group of infected individuals) would just drive north and further spread the virus. No way he puts up road blocks and stops this.
On another note do you have facts that the case number reported are wrong or falsified?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonPieBlue

Sorry if the format sucks. Couldn't get it to do good as a table. Here are the numbers I could find for Ouachita Parish. The pattern I see is no pattern.


12-Apr 367 -
13-Apr 384 17
14-Apr - #VALUE!
15-Apr - #VALUE!
16-Apr 429 45
17-Apr 470 41
18-Apr 483 13
19-Apr 511 28
20-Apr 518 7
21-Apr 532 14
22-Apr 552 20
23-Apr 579 27
24-Apr 598 19
25-Apr 609 11
26-Apr 622 13
27-Apr 645 23

---

7 day moving averages is what they normally look at due to reporting timing discrepancies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

7 day moving averages is what they normally look at due to reporting timing discrepancies.

---

Note on 4/14 and 4/15 I don't know what number was reported. on 4/16 there were 45 new cases so I spread those out over the three days. Looks like no trend. You're talking about such small numbers and no idea when the tests were done (e.g., are test reported on same day taken). Let me know if you see anything wrong with my calculations; otherwise, what else you got?

12-Apr		367		-
13-Apr		384		17
14-Apr		399		15
15-Apr		414		15
16-Apr		429		15
17-Apr		470		41
18-Apr		483		13
19-Apr		511		28	20.57143
20-Apr		518		7	19.14286
21-Apr		532		14	19
22-Apr		552		20	19.71429
23-Apr		579		27	21.42857
24-Apr		598		19	18.28571
25-Apr		609		11	18
26-Apr		622		13	15.85714
27-Apr		645		23	18.14286

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonPieBlue

Note on 4/14 and 4/15 I don't know what number was reported. on 4/16 there were 45 new cases so I spread those out over the three days. Looks like no trend. You're talking about such small numbers and no idea when the tests were done (e.g., are test reported on same day taken). Let me know if you see anything wrong with my calculations; otherwise, what else you got?

12-Apr		367		-
13-Apr		384		17
14-Apr		399		15
15-Apr		414		15
16-Apr		429		15
17-Apr		470		41
18-Apr		483		13
19-Apr		511		28	20.57143
20-Apr		518		7	19.14286
21-Apr		532		14	19
22-Apr		552		20	19.71429
23-Apr		579		27	21.42857
24-Apr		598		19	18.28571
25-Apr		609		11	18
26-Apr		622		13	15.85714
27-Apr		645		23	18.14286

---

Doesn’t really look like a 14 day decreasing trend.

Not that Texas waited for that.

The numbers are BS. We have idiots reporting positive results on people who haven’t been tested.

We have no idea what is happening in the nursing homes but if somebody dies, guess the cause of death.

Louisiana should make Texas drivers quarantine for 14 days.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

We have no idea what is happening in the nursing homes but if somebody dies, guess the cause of death.

---

Who is we? You?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Doesn’t really look like a 14 day decreasing trend.

Not that Texas waited for that.

---

With such small numbers you're unlikely to see a decreasing trend over 14 days until we have no cases. So basically we're saying we can't determine what kind of trend we have so therefore we're not going to reopen. Spin. Spin. Spin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Who is we? You?

---

Do you? If not, then it would be a we. I don't so that's at least two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonPieBlue

With such small numbers you're unlikely to see a decreasing trend over 14 days until we have no cases. So basically we're saying we can't determine what kind of trend we have so therefore we're not going to reopen. Spin. Spin. Spin.

---

I really think they are looking at all region 8 parishes as a unit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonPieBlue

Do you? If not, then it would be a we. I don't so that's at least two.

---

What I know is not encouraging.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

What I know is not encouraging.

---

I “know” as much or more than you about what’s actually happening here. We are being fed a line of BS. Weak minded people believe the BS. You believe it and you are 300 miles away in a much more densely populated region that has adapted to the BS epidemic

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

I really think they are looking at all region 8 parishes as a unit.

---

I know, but they don't show that data. Thought either you or the report stated Monroe was the problem which is not the case. I haven't been tracking daily for other parishes but Lincoln probably had an up-tick, still only 79 cases but that's probably up 20+ in the past few days. Franklin and Union have probably increased over the past few days. Don't know about Franklin but heard they moved some Covid patients into Union at one point maybe a couple of weeks ago.

I still think (but can't show since they don't list the data) that its either flat or bouncing in the numbers for the entire region. I couldn't see the Powerpoint that they were using at meeting and haven't found it on-line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

I “know” as much or more than you about what’s actually happening here. We are being fed a line of BS. Weak minded people believe the BS. You believe it and you are 300 miles away in a much more densely populated region that has adapted to the BS epidemic

---

You know more than me about what is going on in Monroe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonPieBlue

I know, but they don't show that data. Thought either you or the report stated Monroe was the problem which is not the case. I haven't been tracking daily for other parishes but Lincoln probably had an up-tick, still only 79 cases but that's probably up 20+ in the past few days. Franklin and Union have probably increased over the past few days. Don't know about Franklin but heard they moved some Covid patients into Union at one point maybe a couple of weeks ago.

I still think (but can't show since they don't list the data) that its either flat or bouncing in the numbers for the entire region. I couldn't see the Powerpoint that they were using at meeting and haven't found it on-line.

---

Yeah, NYC is pretty much the only place that is reporting the data in a way that is actionable. They go back and correct older dates with numbers that correspond to the date.

Local health officials are probably reporting to the state in a manner that is more updated with the out of sync reported data.

This statement kills me "Hopefully, Louisiana will meet the White House criteria and move to Phase 1 on May 15, provided symptoms, new case counts and hospitalizations decrease and the state continues to surge testing and contact tracing capacity. "

So if we surge testing (I'm assuming test more people), won't you expect to find more cases, either a-sym or mild. So we have more cases therefore we're not going to open until again we can ramp up testing and see decreases in the number of cases. Seems like a vicious circle.