Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
T1
I write this as a truth-seeker and not as a Tech fan or Holtz fan. I did some research based on objective Sagarin Predictor ratings. It only gave me 1 of Crowton's 3 years, but here's how each coach's teams have ranked: (this factors in strength of schedule to take the subjective opinion out of the argument). A win over #52 North Texas should be considered a better win than beating #115 Ole Miss and Sagarin acknowledges that.
Crowton:
1998 - 61
Bicknell:
1999 - 35 (I give Crowton some points here because he passed off a great program to Bicknell).
2000 - 143
2001 - 79
2002 - 109
2003 - 92
2004 - 96
2005 - 94
2006 - 169
Dooley
2007 - 119 (Dooley gets credit for improving what Bick passed to him, but at least he didn't pass the 2006 team to him).
2008 - 100
2009 - 78
Dykes
2010 - 89
2011 - 39
2012 - 52
Holtz
2013 - 167 (I give a lot of blame to Dykes for handing this kind of team to Holtz)
2014 - 33
2015 - 73
2016 - 57
2017 - 93
2018 - 80 (so far)
My ranking of the coaches considering all things: (average ranking of team they inherited and left for the next guy)
1. Crowton - 51 (probably better than this, but Sagarin wasn't around his first 2 years)
2. Dykes -75
3. Holtz - 84
4. Dooley - 87
5. Bicknell - 100
My conclusion: Nobody was really lighting it up. Crowton had a great team in 97. Bicknell had a great team in 99. Dooley never had a great team. Dykes had a great team in 11 and a good team in 12. Holtz had a great team in 14 and a good team in 16. A ton of mediocrity in between those teams. Fair?
You call Holtz's 2014 team "great"? To me, that team will always be remembered for losing at home to FCS NSU. That loss alone should kill any thoughts of the word greatness.
Future LA Tech players should remember that their football teams can be remembered for their embarrassing losses as well as their good wins.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
2013 was the fault of a having a crap coach. Dykes handed off a fine team.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
T1
I agree it could be better, and y'all should want better, but Holtz has given you 4 of the Top 10 teams since 1998 in his first 6 years here (and one team wasn't his fault, imo). I think he's building a tradition, stocking the trophy chest, and recruiting a better athlete because of it. I always wanted a coach who would stick around and try build the program with good men who can play ball. Perspective. Holtz isn't a great coach, but we haven't had a great coach in my lifetime (I wasn't around for Lambright or Aillet). If we did, he would be gone as quickly as Manny Diaz was gone.
So far, in 6 years he has zero (0) trophies.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
You call Holtz's 2014 team "great"? To me, that team will always be remembered for losing at home to FCS NSU. That loss alone should kill any thoughts of the word greatness.
Future LA Tech players should remember that their football teams can be remembered for their embarrassing losses as well as their good wins.
Great is relative to Tech football. None of them were actually great. The 3rd best Tech team was taken to OT by Central Arkansas and blew some games like the 2017 team did (Houston, Miss St, USM). I think they were helped by all the blow out wins: they beat #83 by 28, #104 by 52, #70 by 45, and #78 by 49. It's a computer, who knows if it's right.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PawDawg
This post list the bowl games that would have been under the current system with so many bowl games. Crowton = 3, Bicknell = 5, Dooley = 1, Dykes = 2, Holtz = 4
Bicknell certainly had the most difficult circumstances and schedule of all our recent coaches.
1996 6-5 Crowton Bowl
1997 9-2 Crowton Bowl
1998 6-6 Crowton Bowl
1999 8-3 Bicknell Bowl
2000 3-9 Bicknell
2001 7-5 Bicknell Bowl
2002 4-8 Bicknell Bowl
2003 5-7 Bicknell Possible Bowl
2004 6-6 Bicknell Bowl
2005 7-4 Bicknell Bowl
2006 3-10 Bicknell
2007 5-7 Dooley Possible Bowl
2008 8-5 Dooley Bowl
2009 4-8 Dooley
2010 5-7 Dykes Possible Bowl
2011 8-5 Dykes Bowl
2012 9-3 Dykes Bowl
It's very clear that Sonny Dykes had the best run of any of these 5 coaches, including Skip Holtz. Despite taking over a struggling football program and only being at LA Tech for 3 seasons, Dykes managed to win 22 games ( a .5946 winning percentage), a WAC football championship and he got us into the National Top 25 at least twice. Dykes also took LA Tech to perhaps its' best bowl matchup of all-time against #16 TCU in the 2011 Poinsettia Bowl. No, his Tech team didn't beat TCU that night, but they made a great showing against a very good TCU team only 1-year removed from a Rose Bowl victory.
Only Sonny Dykes and Gary Crowton gave me the confidence to really believe LA Tech could beat anyone, anywhere on just about any day. Dykes delivered P5 wins for Tech at Ole Miss, Virginia, Illinois and quality G5 wins at Houston, Fresno St and Nevada. Now THAT is a win list that LA Tech fans can be proud of. Dykes also had very close --but exciting-- losses against P5's Texas A&M (59-57), Mississippi St (26-20 in OT) and future P5, TCU (31-24).
I know a lot of LA Tech fans are still sore at Dykes for the way he left, and rightfully so. But if we could have kept Sonny for 6 yrs instead of 3, there's no telling what we could have accomplished. I guarantee you we would be settling for 6-6 regular seasons, in a watered down CUSA.
Say what you will, but Sonny Dykes played a very exciting brand of football, which was very good for LA Tech's gate attendance, and his performances enhanced our game day environment tremendously. Dykes made it FUN to go to LA Tech games. Skip Holtz doesn't even belong in this discussion.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JuBru
2013 was the fault of a having a crap coach. Dykes handed off a fine team.
With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.
And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.
And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.
I think it was poetic justice that Dykes inherited a Cal team very similar to the Tech team he left behind (they also lost 30 Seniors and ranked last in nation in returning experience)... and went 1-11 with only a 37-30 win over Portland State. I don't really want to re-hash this... I think if you look at all of Holtz's teams he's ever coached, that 2013 team was by far the worst ... and he coached some FCS teams at UConn. Same with Dykes... he's not THAT bad of a coach.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
It's very clear that Sonny Dykes had the best run of any of these 5 coaches, including Skip Holtz. Despite taking over a struggling football program and only being at LA Tech for 3 seasons, Dykes managed to win 22 games ( a .5946 winning percentage), a WAC football championship and he got us into the National Top 25 at least twice. Dykes also took LA Tech to perhaps its' best bowl matchup of all-time against #16 TCU in the 2011 Poinsettia Bowl. No, his Tech team didn't beat TCU that night, but they made a great showing against a very good TCU team only 1-year removed from a Rose Bowl victory.
Only Sonny Dykes and Gary Crowton gave me the confidence to really believe LA Tech could beat anyone, anywhere on just about any day. Dykes delivered P5 wins for Tech at Ole Miss, Virginia, Illinois and quality G5 wins at Houston, Fresno St and Nevada. Now THAT is a win list that LA Tech fans can be proud of. Dykes also had very close --but exciting-- losses against P5's Texas A&M (59-57), Mississippi St (26-20 in OT) and future P5, TCU (31-24).
I know a lot of LA Tech fans are still sore at Dykes for the way he left, and rightfully so. But if we could have kept Sonny for 6 yrs instead of 3, there's no telling what we could have accomplished. I guarantee you we would be settling for 6-6 regular seasons, in a watered down CUSA.
Say what you will, but Sonny Dykes played a very exciting brand of football, which was very good for LA Tech's gate attendance, and his performances enhanced our game day environment tremendously. Dykes made it FUN to go to LA Tech games. Skip Holtz doesn't even belong in this discussion.
8.5 wins a year and is not worth discussing?.........WOW.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.
And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.
I like Sonny think he's a great offensive coach, his defenses are horrific; the results "bear" this out, but maybe he will "pony" up and change his thinking and start winning again as a head coach.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tylerdawg
I like Sonny think he's a great offensive coach, his defenses are horrific; the results "bear" this out, but maybe he will "pony" up and change his thinking and start winning again as a head coach.
I actually agree with you about Sonny's defenses. They were horrible. But when it came to "big game" coaching, Sonny was just a better big game coach than Skip, IMO. You gotta have some "gambler" in you to be a big game coach against the P5's, and Skip is not a gambler. Sonny was.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
I always felt we could beat anyone when Dykes was here, especially in 2011 and 2012. One thing for sure, we could score on anyone.
I remember Kevin Sumlin after that epic battle at Indy, and he was asked by a reporter, for some SEC online site, "After giving up 57 pts tonite, aren't you concerned about your defense?" Sumlin shrugged it off, "That's Louisiana Tech, they do that to everybody they play."
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
I actually agree with you about Sonny's defenses. They were horrible. But when it came to "big game" coaching, Sonny was just a better big game coach than Skip, IMO. You gotta have some "gambler" in you to be a big game coach against the P5's, and Skip is not a gambler. Sonny was.
What big game did Sonny win? I can only think of at Nevada in 2011 (#48) off the top of my head. His 3 P5 wins were against #133 Illinois, #84 Virginia (barely), and #110 Ole Miss. 0-7 versus teams in the Top 35 (A$M x 2, Boise St, USM, Houston, Miss St, TCU). That dude's been garbage since he left Tech.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dixonfor6
I think Tim could work with price or jack. J’mar is Skip’s guy. He can’t sling it like Tim wants.
J'Mar is Rattay's recruit.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
T1
What big game did Sonny win? I can only think of at Nevada in 2011 (#48) off the top of my head. His 3 P5 wins were against #133 Illinois, #84 Virginia (barely), and #110 Ole Miss. 0-7 versus teams in the Top 35 (A$M x 2, Boise St, USM, Houston, Miss St, TCU). That dude's been garbage since he left Tech.
Oh, just STOP it. If you want me to pay attention to anything you say about Skip in this discussion, bring me a P5 win over ANYBODY. I don't care if the P5 is ranked #160 or #16, just DELIVER for a change.
Skip Holtz has had one (1) P5 win (over 6-6 Illinois) in almost 6 years of coaching LA Tech. Sonny Dykes delivered 3 P5 wins in 3 years. That's one per year. Do the math.
