Let's Get Metaphysical Baby

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randerizer

If you accept that, then you at-least accept that it is arbitrary to believe in God, 100 Gods, a gremlin, a talking tree, etc.

---

If the gremlin revealed himself to you, he would no longer be arbitrary. Christian faith claims that God has revealed himself to mankind, and that is the only reason we recognize him for what he is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Not a bad idea to become a little more well versed on metaphysics before diving in. This thread needs good discussion.

---

Oh, I do beg your pardon...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Oh, I do beg your pardon...

---

he's not trying to discourage you, just wants you to play the game at the appropriate level. :icon_wink:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randerizer

he's not trying to discourage you, just wants you to play the game at the appropriate level. :icon_wink:

---

Which is defined by HIM. This is the weirdest atheistic evangelism I've ever encountered. I'll wait until I'm "worthy" to post further.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Which is defined by HIM. This is the weirdest atheistic evangelism I've ever encountered. I'll wait until I'm "worthy" to post further.

---

I think you're misunderstanding, but it's up to you to post or not post.

I find it funny that value and knowing are put into quotation marks by Guisslap. It is as if those words are subject to each man's interpretation. Him being as logical and objective as any should be able to give us a concrete definition on them without all of the quotation marks. Dont you think?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Oh, I do beg your pardon...

---

Oh the joy of posting on the internet, where no one can appreciate your tone. You said you wanted to research the axioms a little more. I thought that was a good idea (since you represented that you did not know them very well). I was being sincere and not trying to patronize you. I was hoping to get some good discussion on this thread (if you look at its history - it has been pretty much be and Randy tossing softballs back and forth). It is up to you whether you want to post or not. The thread will remain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I find it funny that value and knowing are put into quotation marks by Guisslap. It is as if those words are subject to each man's interpretation. Him being as logical and objective as any should be able to give us a concrete definition on them without all of the quotation marks. Dont you think?

---

Nope - I put them in quotations because we have already defined them elsewhere on this thread, the knowledge thread, and the ethics thread. The quotes were to show that they referenced something more concrete than they might appear. :shocked2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by randerizer

Are you suggesting you were practicing a REASON before accepting God, or are you just suggesting that it is easier to live when you can package all unknown questions into a single answer?

It's also easier on the mind to live in a commune, or to be supported by others, so you don't really have to think for yourself. In many cases, it leads one to deny cause/effect, so you can think blanketedly in fuzzy terms like "helping others" or "social welfare."

---

I just dont see the use. I can use logic and reason in every facet of life and believe that the spiritual realm is above that and that there are many things that I dont understand. I live a good life and end up in heaven.

I can use logic and reason in every facet of my life and believe that the spiritual realm is some arbitrage that people use to make themselves feel better (opiate of the masses, if you will), then what? They throw a parade for me when I die because I might have "known" a few more things or lived a life of "value". In the end, it doesnt reall matter because there is no reward or punishment. I can only see the possible conclusion being nihilism. Hey, that guy knew a lot when he was on Earth, but who cares adn why did it matter?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

If the gremlin revealed himself to you, he would no longer be arbitrary. Christian faith claims that God has revealed himself to mankind, and that is the only reason we recognize him for what he is.

---

Mankind can't recognize - only individual mental faculties can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I can use logic and reason in every facet of my life and believe that the spiritual realm is some arbitrage that people use to make themselves feel better (opiate of the masses, if you will), then what? They throw a parade for me when I die because I might have "known" a few more things or lived a life of "value". In the end, it doesnt reall matter because there is no reward or punishment. I can only see the possible conclusion being nihilism. Hey, that guy knew a lot when he was on Earth, but who cares adn why did it matter?

---

So you still think that your "value" on earth is tied to what you do for others, or what others think of you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Nope - I put them in quotations because we have already defined them elsewhere on this thread, the knowledge thread, and the ethics thread. The quotes were to show that they referenced something more concrete than they might appear. :shocked2:

---

Well, break those definitions down for the lay man and not some long-winded, pompous-sounding novel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dhussdawg

I just dont see the use. I can use logic and reason in every facet of life and believe that the spiritual realm is above that and that there are many things that I dont understand. I live a good life and end up in heaven.

I can use logic and reason in every facet of my life and believe that the spiritual realm is some arbitrage that people use to make themselves feel better (opiate of the masses, if you will), then what? They throw a parade for me when I die because I might have "known" a few more things or lived a life of "value". In the end, it doesnt reall matter because there is no reward or punishment. I can only see the possible conclusion being nihilism. Hey, that guy knew a lot when he was on Earth, but who cares?

---

Because integrity feels good. In the end there is no reward or punishment whether you believe it or not. The best you can do is to sustain your life while you live. BTW, has anyone seen 2057 on the discovery channel. There may be hope that some of us (the younger ones) will be able to live longer than previously imagined.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Mankind can't recognize - only individual mental faculties can.

---

I'd have to see much more than a gremlin to think that consciousness begat existence. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Because integrity feels good. In the end there is no reward or punishment whether you believe it or not. The best you can do is to sustain your life while you live. BTW, has anyone seen 2057 on the discovery channel. There may be hope that some of us (the younger ones) will be able to live longer than previously imagined.

---

I need more "incentive".