Fire Holtz

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Their styles may have been similar, but what about effectiveness? What about the culture? I have never believed that Dooley was a great coach, but Dooley came in and changed the culture. He talked to Reneau in ways that no one has ever talked to him. He was the catalyst behind the schedules that Dykes and Holtz inherited. The way you present it, we were just in a natural cycle and we would've had the same success regardless who the coach was. I think that's crazy (so do any number of schools who pay good money for coaches…why pay Skip 500K when we can get a guy like Bicknell or Berry for 200K?).

You mentioned elsewhere that it would be good for our psyche to fire Holtz. Sometimes, just the psyche is a good enough reason. You saw the numbers at our last 2 home games. Soon LTAC will take a hit. As long as we are wise with our hire, we will come out ahead financially.

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What if our wise hire still only wins 4 (or fewer games next year)? What will happen to LTAC and season ticket sales, then?

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Funny thing is that what Cal fans seem to be most disappointed in, other than their 1-11 record, is the lack of noticeable improvement throughout the year.

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Of course, last year Cal was 3-9 and this year they are playing one of the toughest schedules in the country (Phil Steel called it #3). Last year we were 9-3 and play a cheese schedule, but if the comparisons make you feel better, by all means...

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

What if our wise hire still only wins 4 (or fewer games next year)? What will happen to LTAC and season ticket sales, then?

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They probably decrease, but the question is will they decrease more or less than they would if Holtz is at the helm. The right follow-up question to that is will Holtz perform better against next year's schedule than a new coach. I haven't seen anything out of Holtz that indicates that he will have a better record next year than he will have this year (nothing in the recruiting indicates quick improvement either).

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Of course, last year Cal was 3-9 and this year they are playing one of the toughest schedules in the country (Phil Steel called it #3). Last year we were 9-3 and play a cheese schedule, but if the comparisons make you feel better, by all means...

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Comparing fans perceptions. That is all. Did Dykes forget how to improve a team since he left Tech?

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

Comparing fans perceptions. That is all. Did Dykes forget how to improve a team since he left Tech?

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I don't know. I haven't followed Dykes since he left. What sort of offense did his predecessor run? Is he installing a new system? Is he installing a new system while insisting that he's not? If the players aren't improving, then Cal fans have a valid reason for concern.

If Holtz inherited a loser and was openly trying to change the offensive style, I would disagree, but I would be more lenient on him.

I'll tell y'all something that pisses me off about Holtz.

We go out and get whipped and humiliated each week. The other team physically embarrasses us and makes us look ridiculous. It is humiliating as a fan. Then he comes to the press conference each Monday and talks about how well some of the players played. Then he rattles off about 15 names of guys who played well and who he's proud of. There is no way 15 guys are playing well and we are getting beat like we are getting beat. I appreciate his positivity, but come on.... there's no way that many players played a good game... we would have won if they did. I just don't get that.

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

They probably decrease, but the question is will they decrease more or less than they would if Holtz is at the helm. The right follow-up question to that is will Holtz perform better against next year's schedule than a new coach. I haven't seen anything out of Holtz that indicates that he will have a better record next year than he will have this year (nothing in the recruiting indicates quick improvement either).

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The correct question is can we get someone else who will do just as well next year as Holtz will do to justify the costs of turnaround - money, stability, recruiting, bad PR.

I think if we bring in someone else, next year will be the worse for it. If I were making the call, I wouldn't make the change unless I knew that we would be better off at least as early as 2015 and that we could bring in someone that could excite the fans despite sucking next year.

Not sure why everyone attacks T1; his arguments are rational. I agree with him in that Holtz isn't the only problem and firing him now won't make our QB or our blocking any better. (or would it?)

Dykes was not a good coach until Colby became a stud QB. This is the case with most coaches. Check out the Hall of Fame coaches and then check out their QBs. All but one (I think) had a Hall of Fame QB. I don't think our program will make strides with Holtz at the helm, but until we get consistency at QB, it won't matter who is coaching. Hopefully Peterson does wonders with Higgins bc I don't think he will ever be much better than he is now. Hopefully we land a stud QB in recruiting.

Anyway, all that said... FIRE HOLTZ!

Did USM suffer "bad PR" for firing Ellis Johnson?

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

Did USM suffer "bad PR" for firing Ellis Johnson?

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For winning zero games after 17 or so straight bowl games. I doubt it is hard to sell that. But who knows, was Monken the best they could do? If so, then maybe there was some blow back.

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Originally Posted by Guisslapp

If I were making the call, I wouldn't make the change unless I knew that we would be better off at least as early as 2015 and that we could bring in someone that could excite the fans despite sucking next year.

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I would agree with you. I think where we differ is that you have a higher opinion of Holtz. I have seen nothing that makes me think 2014 will be ANY better than 2015. I feel like, if we hire well, your 2015 timeline is totally workable.

As for whether or not a new guy finishes worse than Holtz would in 2014…tough to tell. If I were seeing more improvement and buy-in with the players, I would agree. As it is, I don't think the "right guy" comes in and does any worse.

The USM situation is bad karma coming home to roost for the Bower firing...

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Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

I would agree with you. I think where we differ is that you have a higher opinion of Holtz. I have seen nothing that makes me think 2014 will be ANY better than 2015. I feel like, if we hire well, your 2015 timeline is totally workable.

As for whether or not a new guy finishes worse than Holtz would in 2014...tough to tell. If I were seeing more improvement and buy-in with the players, I would agree. As it is, I don't think the "right guy" comes in and does any worse.

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I agree with his assessments after the games, so I believe he recognizes the issues, which is step no. 1. Whether he can implement a solution is harder to judge given the hand he was dealt, particularly at OLine and QB. I think the OL got better, but QB is still a big issue for us. As Higgins goes, so will we. But that is typical for these types of offenses. If we would have been in better shape on OLine, we could have used our RBs better to take more off of Higgins.

I would personally like to see some coaching staff moves in the offseason. That would be a positive step, but he really needs more money to do much better.

I thought the OL was getting better, but Tulsa flat out kicked their butts again.

Both of our rb's averaged 5 yards a carry. Watts averaged 4.7. I wouldn't call that kicking our butts.