You are missing the point. These determinations are not made based on VAERS data. The VAERS data could be a thousandfold “incorrect” if you are drawing a conclusion that vaccines caused the alleged deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDAWG
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You are missing the point. These determinations are not made based on VAERS data. The VAERS data could be a thousandfold “incorrect” if you are drawing a conclusion that vaccines caused the alleged deaths.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDAWG
Dude! You're shooting down a database from Fauci's CDC website. CDC is gospel now a days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
You can't "have your cake and eat it too". Just cause this CDC database doesn't report the number you like, then you just dismiss it.
The VAERS database is the best data we have, at this time.
btw, why aren't VAERS numbers being studied? aren't being either validated or refuted?
Was just misuse and misapplication of VAERS data, again.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDAWG
It also has a lot of accurate info! Why are there no studies on what is being reported?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Just because a part of a database is incomplete doesn't invalidate the entire data set. By definition, a large part of this has to be accurate because it is NOT ALL inaccurate.
Do studies on this info, investigate it!!!! No? Too afraid to find out what is really happening?
More than that, why would the CDC continue to operate a resource that is so misleading?Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDAWG
You need to go back and research the purpose of VAERS. It has a purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDAWG
Important that you not miss this blatant disclaimer that you and others keep ignoring:
https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.htmlQuote:
VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.
Once you are a little more educated in the subject, come back and retry the discussion.
Sorry FD, not from a Guissy approved website. Da Fuehrer has ruled!Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
For CDC purposes, they don’t rely on the accuracy of the reports. It is like a tipline, like Crimestoppers. Plenty of garbage comes in, but the fact that you do get some useful leads is why they run the reporting system.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
I really don’t understand why you guys struggle so hard with the concept of VAERS.
How many deaths does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
The world will never know, cause people like you ignore the obvious.
The database is there to show when a vaxx has a serious problem. This has worked in the past and vaxx's have been pulled for FAR less VAERS data.
How many deaths has this vaxx caused? Where are the studies? Why is our gov't not looking into the adverse reactions to this vaxx?
We don't struggle with it, we don't understand why this hundreds of thousands of tips are not being followed up on?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Where are the studies, the follow ups, the research?
These tips are being ignored, but hundreds of thousands of Americans are living these "tips".
btw, a huge number of these "tips" are from doctors and nurses. so, there!
None have been pulled merely by the existence of reports on VAERS. They are pulled after studying/analyzing actual cases. If 50 anti-Vaxxers put in false reports of deaths, you expect the FDA would pull the vaccine based on VAERS?Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDAWG
Serious reports are studied.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/con...-vaccines.htmlQuote:
Scientists monitor VAERS reports to identify adverse events that need to be studied further. All serious reports are reviewed by medical professionals on a daily basis. VAERS data provide medical professionals at CDC and FDA with a signal of a potential adverse event. Experience has shown that VAERS is an excellent tool for detecting potential adverse events. Reports of adverse events that are unexpected, appear to happen more often than expected, or have unusual patterns are followed up with specific studies.
You are seriously undereducated on this topic. Seriously, go study and come back once your intellectual deficiencies have been remedied.
How many of these “deaths” were reported by doctors or nurses?Quote:
Originally Posted by DJDAWG
And here is a listing of what is currently being/ has been studied based on reports:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html
More “studies” from Fauci:icon_roll:
Great summary of the fake news about Ivermectin.
Scientist Alleges Deception in NIH's Non-Recommendation of Ivermectin - UnoverDC
Follow the money to see why cheap therapeutics are being bypassed to pump up big pharma's profits. Very strange that some panel members were identified while others were redacted. Follow the money.
And Goosey, Ivermectin prescribed for human use isn't a dewormer. Stop spreading CNN's reporting of FDA/NIH fake news.
And don't bother replying to me, Goosey. I have had you blocked for years.
I have already pointed out the problem with the ivermectin data - the data they have is for very small trials with inconsistent results. The only large scale trial included fraudulent data.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
It’s a good thing regeneron, remdesivir, and all the vaccines have been through all the clinical trials and determined to have no long term negative affects. Oh, you mean those treatments were pushed through without any real significant data collection? Hhhmmm…………
If only bad orange man would endorse ivermectin, we'd know it was a killer.
They have, in fact, been through the robust clinical trials that ivermectin has not yet completed. That is the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Here is Regeneron’s, for example.
https://investor.regeneron.com/news-...mptomatic-sars
Since the control groups were intentionally dropped in the so-called studies, those studies are not scientifically valid. I'm guessing that the harmful side-effects would have been too exposed for big pharma's liking, so those studies had to be sabotaged.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
I have to wait until Goosey's inevitable "debunking" before commenting...Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
The Anti-vaxx army is well mobilized on FB.
Had a message on our machine from a girl asking for our vaccination status. My business, don’t call me.
How many deaths from antibiotic resistant infections in hospitals as a result of a patient being admitted with Covid? Riddle me that oh great intelligent Goosey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Sounds like another reason not to get Covid.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle2180
Lol! Even the vaccinated are still catching Covid. Don’t deflect, answer the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
At a much lower rate, and are being hospitalized at a much lower rate still.Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle2180
Get vaccinated and you avoid nosocomial diseases to boot.
The argument seems to be shifting again. Now the outspoken pro-vaxers trust the vaccine to protect them, but mostly as long as you also get the vaccine to protect them. Seems like trusting your seatbelt to protect your in your car, but only to the extent that everyone else wears their seatbelt in their car to protect your better.
What?
No, you just haven’t been paying attention. The more the virus circulates, the more mutations it makes, and the more likely it is that their will be a mutation that gets around the protection of the vaccines. Also, the more people that go to the hospital, the more burden it places on the system and makes it more likely that responsible people can’t get medical attention if they need it. And also, the more people that don’t get the vaccine the greater the risk to those that can’t get the vaccine and the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Drunk driving is a much more apt analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Maybe, except that a driver can take every precaution and still fall victim to the drunk driver. Someone afraid of Covid can choose to take every precaution. Vaccinate, mask, complete social isolation, and be totally fine. They can make the choice to completely unplug from the world. Ordering groceries, working from home, and zooming with friends, family, and coworkers is entirely possible. Not much of a life though. But it does allow you to live without infringing on the rights of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnylightnin
Of course, the driver can choose to stay home as well. So there is that…..
Except for the fact that no one under 12 can get vaccinated and they don’t have the autonomy you described.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
I just feel there is an element of inherent risk with leaving your house. If everyone abided by all the rules, there would be no murder, no drunk driving, no speeding, and no car crashes. Everyone doesn’t follow all the rules all the time. Some people won’t be able to comply with mandates. For years, there won’t be sufficient data to make me fee comfortable about my kids getting the shots. Pregnant or breastfeeding women may not if their doctor advises against. There will always be risk.
And yet, we still have laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Should the unvaxxed be scared of the vaxxed? I am vaccinated and have a higher resistance. I am much more likely to transmit the virus unknowingly. In spite of that, the unvaxxed aren’t scared of being around me at all. They are content to live and let live.
2 vaxxed people can still transmit the illness one to the other, although less severe cases. So again, the unvaxxed should be the ones hiding in their basement, but for some reason aren’t.
Yes, but you are 5 times less likely to get it if you are vaxxed. If you are unvaxxed you are putting yourself at greater risk and putting society at greater risk. It wasn’t that long ago that being socially responsible was a conservative value.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
So I will put you down as being against drunk driving laws. Live and let live. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
I am not against drunk driving laws. I am against shutting down the country because some people don’t abide by said laws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Well, if everyone would go ahead and get vaccinated, we could get to herd immunity and not have to worry about shutting down the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Like Israel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
I wish we had information on hospitalization with Covid vs because of Covid.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Israel was the first country to get the vaccines out en masse and need to do boosters now.
78% vaccination does not achieve herd immunity for delta variant.
Unfortunately, they mostly used Pfizer which appears to be less durable than Moderna. But even Moderna’s has falloff after 8 months (their latest data shows this).
The fact that there are "breakthrough" cases rules out your "herd immunity" argument. In Israel, 60% of the folks in the hospital a month ago were vaccinated folks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Not only that, but variants can come from anywhere. They can come over the porous southern border and moved in the middle of the night to a town/apartment near you. They can come from a vaccinated person who has come into contact with someone in another country as a "breakthrough" case, then distributed freely to the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.
This is part of what is causing vaccine hesitancy here in America. The vaccines don't prevent Covid infection. They are not going to get us to herd immunity. They supposedly save your life and keep you from getting very sick (heck, I bought that line and got the vaccine myself), but that is about it. I honestly think that if it were presented that way - and only that way - you'd likely reach the target vaccination rate that still would not give you herd immunity.
The cow left the barn when the dems politicized the virus to cheat in the 2020 election. Now we have to live with the unintended consequences of that.
You are 5 times less likely to get Covid if you are vaccinated, and that is with the delta variant. Breakthroughs are more likely the longer it has been since you were vaccinated. The delta variant didn’t exist and we didn’t have durability at the time the vaccines first came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
An important point of herd immunity - it doesn’t mean you don’t get breakthrough infections. It means that the new transmission chains won’t persist or endure (R0 less than 1 relative to the immunity of the population).
A factor of 100 times for underreporting in VAERS may be too high, but a factor of 5-20 times seems reasonable based on the totalitarian tactics of the pro-vax coalition.
EXCLUSIVE: COVID Whistleblower Claims the VAERS Reporting Database Tracking Vaccine Complications is WRONG and Undercounting by a Factor of 100! (thegatewaypundit.com)
Check out that DO’s social media. MAGA to the max. Clearly politically biased.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
5 times less likely is not immunity. Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
And the variants will still be coming in from abroad, just like the delta variant.
Breakthrough infections will increase if we don’t start boosting right now. Old people’s vaccines are getting less protective against infection as antibody levels are dropping from the early vaccines. And, yes, we face the issue of foreign variants as long as Covid is spreading anywhere in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Still, the more people that get vaccinated, the more our risks get reduced because it reduces transmission in our communities. Other people’s vaccination reduces your exposure to Covid. Your vaccination (for as long as it is effective) reduces the risk you will get Covid if exposed (and improves your outcomes). It is the combination effect of reduced transmission in the community and your own reduced likelihood of contracting the virus that yield “herd immunity.”
“Yes Sir, what brings you in today?”
“I’m here for my bi-weekly Covid shot.”
This is gonna be great!
And the quality of your individual immunity (and yes it is considered “immunity”) will depend on various factors including which vaccine you got and how long ago you got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
I may slap the shit out of the first man who asks me if I’ve had my 3rd shot. You know that will be the next bar for these idiots
Speaking of boosters and the totally inadequate clinical trials regarding them...
Are you kidding me, Pfizer, volume 1 gazillion - by Alex Berenson - Unreported Truths (substack.com)
"Pfizer basically hasn’t bothered to test the booster AT ALL in the people actually at risk - it conducted a single “Phase 1” trial that covered 12 people over 65. The main Phase 2/3 booster trial (beware efforts to cover multiple “phases” of drug research at once, you want it bad you get it bad) included no one over 55.
No one.
As in NONE."
Vermont, with the highest vaccination rate in the country — 88% of adults at least partially vaccinated & 79% fully vaccinated — is about to set a new high in COVID cases, just 3.5 months after Fauci said with 50% of adults vaccinated we wouldn’t see significant surges.
Whoops!
https://twitter.com/ianmSC/status/14...973317/photo/1
The alternative would be to wait another 6 months for boosters, which we KNOW carries grave risks for the population at issue. There is a very limited population you could have run the booster trial on.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
You got punked. Vermont had an IT glitch that caused several days of reporting get delayed and then all reported at once. Who punked you?Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
Jenn Psaki, “our role is to provide equitable distribution of life saving measures like monoclonal antibodies to all states.”
So, Louisiana, 4million people, get the same amount as Texas, 2million.
So, who in the Biden admin didn’t ingest copious amounts of lead paint and asbestos as a child?
Texas is still getting more than Louisiana.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
But 70% of the monoclonal antibodies were being ordered by 7 southern states with low vaccination rates.
What’s your point? Companies have said they can crank out treatment as fast as is needed. Let the market work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
I took allergy shots as a kid and still go sinus infections. Do you think doctors would have denied me a Zpack if I hadn’t taken shots? The need for medicine isn’t political and making it so is sickening, twisted, Neanderthal thinking.
There is a supply shortage right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Randomized double blind control trial shows ivermectin not substantial impact for Covid in India:Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34265236/
But it is probably helpful to remove the worms. Doubt having worms helps you if you get Covid.
Again, you give us NIH info. If you trust them, fine. Good luck with that.
This wasn’t done by researchers at NIH. PubMed is a free database repository of articles and scientific literature that is developed and maintained by NIH.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Well this will be a big set back for Biden's mandated vaccine push.. Kinda have to have these guys working considering what they do..
https://i.postimg.cc/ZK0xwYbJ/581-EF...60-ACA0-F5.jpg
Dr. Jessica Rose, a viral immunologist testifies to FDA today...
https://twitter.com/i/status/1438935548664688643
Wonder how Goose will blow this one off.
https://www.businessinsider.com/idah...vaccine-2021-9Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
Exactly! If NIH thinks it’s good, I question it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
They don’t endorse what it posted there. It is just a repository, like a library.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Business insider??? LOLOLOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Leftist tripe.
Far more centrist than the source I was responding to.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Do they post anything from the 10’s of thousands who disagree with the CDC or are they just another arm that carries water for a government entity? Unless they post both sides of an issue, they aren’t a repository, they are a promoter.
You are clueless. They post studies wherever they come from. The CDC is free to draw whatever conclusions they do from any of these studies.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Hah! that's what I said, vaxxed people cause the virus to have to mutate to survive! But Goosey...who knows everything there is to know about everything...said I was mistaken.
I will say this, according to the numbers, provided by the NRMC, 88% of all virus-related issues today, currently, is due to the un-vaxxed. Our hospital has seen an uptick in cases, and some recent deaths, and across the spectrum, 88% of the patients are un-vaxxed. Just lost two acquaintances/friends...one of them a 65 yr old woman, mother of three of my former soccer players. She was relatively healthy and active. Still was playing tennis with friends, walking, and took care of herself. She contracted the China Virus and was lost in less than a month. She was un-vaxxed.
I have posted before that, like most of you, I personally DON'T KNOW the whole truth. I have to lean on the media (from various sources) and articles published here and there, AND! on my personal contacts from various walks of life, including the medical field, and pull all of that together and make a decision as best I can. I have determined, based on the wealth of evidence, that getting vaxxed > unvaxxed.
I won't tell you what you should do.
Most doctors will say take them too although many of us went through the motions for personal reasons and CERTAINLY not because our governments(s) were advising or demanding it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
I still don't understand the downside to getting the shots. If I was an isolated mountain man (which I'm considering with Skip Holtz as our HC) I many have considered not getting the shots, but I interact with people daily who REFUSE to take the shots. Most of those people vote democrat.
That isn’t true. All the most transmissible variants so far have come from unvaxxed areas. Mutations of this virus occur WHEN it replicates inside hosts, and it does that far more readily in the unvaxxed.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
The French doctor that gatewaypundit is covering is a quack. Research Christian Perronne and see for yourself.
Hogdawg and DJdawg are voting Democrat?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Viruses, which aren’t living organisms and consist of nothing more than genetic material encased in protein, require a host to replicate it. Although some viruses have DNA as its genetic material, COVID doesn’t. It is RNA (the single strand), which makes it even easier to mutate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
The mechanism of creating the new Covid variants is easy to understand and neither requires, nor so far as involved, vaccine resistance. If you get infected with the virus and one of your infected cells produces a mutant variant among the non-mutant variants, several things can happen, but will consider two options - 1. The mutant variant might be ineffective as a virus and not be reproduced any further, or 2. The mutant variant might reproduce more easily and as your cells reproduce the mutant and non-mutant variants, the mutant variant might out-compete its parent and become the dominant version of the virus in you, and the one you spread to others (and then the same thing plays out across the population - the new variant has a higher R0 and spreads faster than the non-mutant variant).
At some point there very much could be a new variant that evades the current vaccines, and we will need vaccine for that as well. We face this issue with the flu as well. But letting the virus run free isn’t really the answer to this, because it will still mutate and since it will be relocating more, it will be mutating more.
Yes...BUILD THE WALL! You're finally catching on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Alright, I'll step in and then step out.
Since a year ago, I've shot state championships in football, baseball, Indoor swim meet, college and HS basketball, Lacrosse, 7 on 7, football this season, golf and volleyball. Been masked. Been unmasked. I've been to Wal-Mart and every other big box store.
Got vax in March cuz I'm a type II.
Got congestion and cough Wednesday. This happens about twice a year. I go to the clinic and get a rosephen shot and ZPak.
Got to the clinic Friday at 9:30. Said i had to swab first. At 10:30 I was notified POSITIVE on the quick test.
I was handed my paperwork and told to head straight to Monroe's St. Francis Medical Center 10 minutes away for the fusion. No if, ands or buts.
By noon I arrived at the Infusion center and was out by 2:20 pm and headed home for my 10-day quarantine.
Since Friday I've had mild fever (if any), some congestion, some mild cough. Today add diarrhea to the list. No fatigue. nothing else.
The Delta Variant, however, is the real deal. It likes everyone. All ages.
My official statement: The vaccine helped lessen COVID-19's effects drastically, quickly.
Should everyone consider the vaccine? It's helping me.
That's all.
Glad you aren't feeling worse. Yes, it's the real deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgpix
But there's really no way to tell if the vaccine has had a hand in your feeling better quickly, or if it actually lessened your COVID effects. It could have just been your own immune system doing all that, and there is no real way of knowing at this point. Now statistically, I do agree that getting the shot makes sense, because it appears the data shows lower percentages of those that are vaxxed are getting really sick....especially older folks. This is why I got vaccinated.
I was around my wife when she had COVID before I was vaxxed and went to a number of "super spreader" events (like the Daytona 500, some local concerts and craft shows) without being impacted. I wouldn't say I didn't catch it because I was unvaccinated any more than I would say I haven't gotten it since then because I was vaccinated.
That said, I hope you're right about why it's not hitting you worse. Hope you're back to normal soon.
Thanks.
Yes, my immune system has been strong. Here’s why and it’s a very scientific reason:
I grew up in Hot Springs, not far from Hot Springs Creek, which flowed through the heart of town. Until I was 18, most of downtown sewage was dumped into the creek, which emptied into Lake Hamilton, which is part of the Ouachita River.
The EPA stopped all new construction in HS until the sewerage system was corrected for more than 10 years.
so, there. The Chinese came up with something stronger than all the crap I grew up with!
Shocking report of apparently official figures obtained in England through information requests.
Over 30,000 deaths reported within three weeks of taking the experimental gene therapy over a 6-month period.
BREAKING – 30,305 people died within 21 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in England during the first 6 months of 2021 according to ONS data – The Expose
1. Calling it “gene therapy” makes you look ignorant AF. It isn’t.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
2. Some proper context is needed. There isn’t any casualty established for these deaths. But that is also not a statistically significant number of deaths. Tons of people die everyday in the UK and the vaccine rollout was relatively quick. For example,
“Between 8 December 2020 and 11 June 2021, a total of 5,522 people died within 28 days of receiving a COVID-19 vaccine in Scotland (number of days between vaccine and death is 0-27, where 0 is the day of vaccination, all age groups). A breakdown of these deaths by day and vaccine type is available in the spreadsheet provided along with this report. Using the 5-year average monthly death rate (by age band and gender) from 2015 to 2019 for comparison, 8,718 deaths would have been expected among the vaccinated population within 28 days of receiving their COVID-19 vaccination. This means the observed number of deaths is lower than expected compared with mortality rates for the same time period in previous years (dose 1 observed/expected ratio:0.66, 95%CI= 0.64 to 0.69; dose 2 observed/expected ratio: 0.59, 95%CI=0.57 to 0.62).”
https://beta.publichealthscotland.sc...ion_report.pdf
If you look up the featured nurse (O’Malley) from the Phoenix Indian Medical Center, her social media includes anti-vaccine and conspiracy theory posts. Anti masker too. She is full tilt right wing loon.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
And of course there is nothing in the video that substantiates her claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Norway has declared the China Virus is no different than the flu and is ending all related restrictions.
They must be right! Norway is a Scandinavian country, ya know, "socialist democracy" and as such is never wrong about anything. So, if Norway has declared an end to the pandemic, the world should follow suit. At least one regular here has always sung the praises of the "enlightened" Scandinavians, and I expect to see him posting support for an end of all restrictions.
Question……
Unvaxxed can get and transmit the virus. Vaxxed can get and transmit the virus. Why are companies offering options of vax or weekly test instead of weekly test for all regardless of status?
Because you are far more likely to get and transmit the virus if you are unvaxxed. The current rate of breakthrough infection is estimated to be 1 in every 5000 vaccinated people.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
These are they types of folks that should never have gotten the vaccine in the first place. He is a healthy, sub-40 year old athlete that would benefit WAY more by contracting Covid and having access to the proper (and now rationed by the idiot in the Oval office) therapeutics when he gets mildly sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDawg
This is the stupidity of letting a senile old man and his compromised side kick (Fauchi) dictate a one-size-fits all response to the virus.
Next he will get a "breakthrough" infection where he will be told he needs 5 or 6 additional boosters of the same vaccine to save him going forward. More cowbell isn't going to fix anything.
Edited to add.....if you think you want government in control of health care, look at our geriatric dictator and his rationing of life-saving medicine as what you can expect. Perhaps Trump should not have sent all those ventilators to the Yankee morons in New York that were confined to high-rise apartments where they were more likely to come into contact with others that were infected with Covid. Perhaps he should have kept the hospital ships free in the event the more intelligent parts of the nation needed them later. It's only "fair".
If he reacted this bad to the vaccine, just imagine how much worse he reaction might have been to an actual infection.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow