Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
Oh, just STOP it. If you want me to pay attention to anything you say about Skip in this discussion, bring me a P5 win over ANYBODY. I don't care if the P5 is ranked #160 or #16, just DELIVER for a change.
Skip Holtz has had one (1) P5 win (over 6-6 Illinois) in almost 6 years of coaching LA Tech. Sonny Dykes delivered 3 P5 wins in 3 years. That's one per year. Do the math.
He's beat plenty of teams better than those 3.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
T1
I write this as a truth-seeker and not as a Tech fan or Holtz fan. I did some research based on objective Sagarin Predictor ratings. It only gave me 1 of Crowton's 3 years, but here's how each coach's teams have ranked: (this factors in strength of schedule to take the subjective opinion out of the argument). A win over #52 North Texas should be considered a better win than beating #115 Ole Miss and Sagarin acknowledges that.
Crowton:
1998 - 61
Bicknell:
1999 - 35 (I give Crowton some points here because he passed off a great program to Bicknell).
2000 - 143
2001 - 79
2002 - 109
2003 - 92
2004 - 96
2005 - 94
2006 - 169
Dooley
2007 - 119 (Dooley gets credit for improving what Bick passed to him, but at least he didn't pass the 2006 team to him).
2008 - 100
2009 - 78
Dykes
2010 - 89
2011 - 39
2012 - 52
Holtz
2013 - 167 (I give a lot of blame to Dykes for handing this kind of team to Holtz)
2014 - 33
2015 - 73
2016 - 57
2017 - 93
2018 - 80 (so far)
My ranking of the coaches considering all things: (average ranking of team they inherited and left for the next guy)
1. Crowton - 51 (probably better than this, but Sagarin wasn't around his first 2 years)
2. Dykes -75
3. Holtz - 84
4. Dooley - 87
5. Bicknell - 100
My conclusion: Nobody was really lighting it up. Crowton had a great team in 97. Bicknell had a great team in 99. Dooley never had a great team. Dykes had a great team in 11 and a good team in 12. Holtz had a great team in 14 and a good team in 16. A ton of mediocrity in between those teams. Fair?
I agree Crowton was our best coach in this era. Bicknell probably had the worst results, but coached against a much harder schedule. I do not think he was the worst coach among this group. That honor goes to Dooley, although he seems to be enjoying a little success at Missouri, guess having an very good QB helps. Makes those Tennessee and Dallas years fade from his memory I'm sure. The issue of scheduling seems to be a problem that more than just yourself doesn't understand.
Calling the 2014 team great, they lost to Northwestern (FCS) at home and ODU (in transition from FCS), is mindblowing. Of course we did lay 76 points on Rice. And, your boy Skippy did beat a Power 5 team, of course, they also finished with a losing record. Too bad Skip laid an egg against Marshall in the championship game it would have made all of these threads irrelevant. You know that Skip seems incapable of delivering a championship or winning a truly big game.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
Oh, just STOP it. If you want me to pay attention to anything you say about Skip in this discussion, bring me a P5 win over ANYBODY. I don't care if the P5 is ranked #160 or #16, just DELIVER for a change.
Skip Holtz has had one (1) P5 win (over 6-6 Illinois) in almost 6 years of coaching LA Tech. Sonny Dykes delivered 3 P5 wins in 3 years. That's one per year. Do the math.
Pretty sure Holtz hasn’t played a P5 team as bad as those three teams while here.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Ill add- Outside his first year with Kansas and NC State.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
glm47
So looking at 1996-2012 Tech would’ve gone to bowls 10 of 17 years, based on today’s bowl environment, including 4 straight from 1996-1999. Mediocre, yes, just like what we have now. Fair?
And do you not consider the schedules played by those other coaches? Surely you don’t think this CUSA is comparable to the WAC or to some of the schedules played by those other coaches.
No he doesn't consider schedules. His argument is based on a "really, really, really, really smart computer programmer's program". This really smart guy downloaded years of stats into a computer, wrote a program and whamo it's like magic I'm telling you. He could probably take the ULM football team and kick Saban's Alabama team in the ass with this kind of information. I'm telling you this is great stuff. Heck you don't even have to watch the games anymore, just type a few keystrokes and you know the score before the teams even play. :icon_roll:
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tech52
Pretty sure Holtz hasn’t played a P5 team as bad as those three teams while here.
These were all very winnable P5 games for LA Tech.
Kansas & NC State in 2013
Kansas St & Miss St in 2015
Arkansas in 2016
South Carolina in 2017
I truly believe Sonny Dykes and his powerful offense would have won at least half of these games. Skip lost 'em all.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Ok T1, this is for you. Why couldn’t Holtz deliver with a 2015 team stacked with talent? What else does he need to compete in CUSA?
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HogDawg
With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.
And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.
May I have your permission to have the bolded words displayed in a frame on my office wall for all to see? Giving you full credit of course. :D
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Dykes and Crowton are the only “masterminds” on the list. Everyone else are managers/administrators. Skips issue is that he runs things like he’s an OC. He needs to let somebody else call the plays AND coach the special teams. I think those two things alone could right our current ship.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Someone should mail Skip a copy of Tony Franklin’s “system” dvds
I remember some here would bash him for not being clean shaven on gamedays. Lol!
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dixonfor6
Someone should mail Skip a copy of Tony Franklin’s “system” dvds
I remember some here would bash him for not being clean shaven on gamedays. Lol!
And no socks!��
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dixonfor6
Someone should mail Skip a copy of Tony Franklin’s “system” dvds
I remember some here would bash him for not being clean shaven on gamedays. Lol!
Come on man! You know Skip lives in 1988, it would have to be a VHS tape. :laugh:
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SicemDawgz
Ok T1, this is for you. Why couldn’t Holtz deliver with a 2015 team stacked with talent? What else does he need to compete in CUSA?
My intention wasn't to argue, but to present the objective facts because a lot of subjective disinformation was being spread and that drives me nuts. Tech fans act like we were Alabama before Holtz got here and now we're ULM because of Holtz (at least that's how I read it).
My opinion, not wanting to argue with you... is that 2015 was a good year for Tech. It was better than 1 of Crowton's teams, 8 of Bicknell's teams, all of 3 of Dooley's teams, and 1 of Dykes' teams. It was better than 3 of Holtz's teams. We did not win CUSA because we were beat twice in conference play... both the teams that beat us played in the Championship game. We lost by 3 on the road to the eventual champion in Game 2 of the season and USM blew us out at home (tough loss, but it happens all the time to every team). I'm not sure what he needs... maybe the 2014 team or the 2016 team would have won it in 2015 because they were both a little better than the 2015 team.... not knocking the 2015 team, they were damn strong too... just not strong enough.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
T1
My intention wasn't to argue, but to present the objective facts because a lot of subjective disinformation was being spread and that drives me nuts. Tech fans act like we were Alabama before Holtz got here and now we're ULM because of Holtz (at least that's how I read it).
My opinion, not wanting to argue with you... is that 2015 was a good year for Tech. It was better than 1 of Crowton's teams, 8 of Bicknell's teams, all of 3 of Dooley's teams, and 1 of Dykes' teams. It was better than 3 of Holtz's teams. We did not win CUSA because we were beat twice in conference play... both the teams that beat us played in the Championship game. We lost by 3 on the road to the eventual champion in Game 2 of the season and USM blew us out at home (tough loss, but it happens all the time to every team). I'm not sure what he needs... maybe the 2014 team or the 2016 team would have won it in 2015 because they were both a little better than the 2015 team.... not knocking the 2015 team, they were damn strong too... just not strong enough.
Dude, I ain't mad at ya :laugh: I'm honestly just trying to figure out how it is that we can have as much or more talent than anybody in CUSA and at best hope to get second place. Seems like the law of averages would take over and EVENTUALLY we would end up on top. I think a lot of the stuff you say is reasoned and well thought out, which is why I asked you. I don't agree with everything you say, but I do respect your opinion.
It seems to me like the amount of talent we are getting in Ruston is better, but the results are stagnant.
Re: Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SicemDawgz
Dude, I ain't mad at ya :laugh: I'm honestly just trying to figure out how it is that we can have as much or more talent than anybody in CUSA and at best hope to get second place. Seems like the law of averages would take over and EVENTUALLY we would end up on top. I think a lot of the stuff you say is reasoned and well thought out, which is why I asked you. I don't agree with everything you say, but I do respect your opinion.
It seems to me like the amount of talent we are getting in Ruston is better, but the results are stagnant.
Maybe other teams have talent too? You know we weren't favored to win either of those Championship Games right? And if we would have made it in 2015, we would not have been favored to beat WKU (and they had already beaten us earlier in the year). Holtz won 2 CUSA championships at ECU. He was favored over Houston in 2009 and won, and he was the underdog at Tulsa in 2008 and won. So he has shown he can win a championship as the underdog once. I think both championship games were pretty well played... our defense was not good enough in 2016... we scored 44 points and lost by 2 TDs.... we were very similar to the 2012 team that year... awesome offense, poor defense, no conference championship.
