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I nominate that for best first post ever. Timely, passionate, & insightful.

Welcome, LTA.

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Originally Posted by loyalTechAlum

It's very disappointing to see comments like this from Tech alums. First of all, Tech students are not ALLOWED to use internet sources for research purposes. If they are, usually only 1 source. The Library has to purchase VERY expensive electronic databases which contain scholarly articles in specialized fields such as engineering and science, business, education, etc. You CANNOT find scholarly research articles and books on the internet. Online journals and databases cost the Library hundreds of thousands of dollars in an effort to provide the necessary materials for student and faculty researchers. Many of these specific resources are required for accreditation. The cost of the databases is based on FTE at Tech and they can only be accessed by enrolled students and current faculty. Many more journals, databases and other resources are needed for a Tier 1 University. These databases, online journals, e-books, and the online catalog are loaded onto the Library home page and are maintained by the Library. While most students are internet savvy, many have great difficulty using the databases as they are all provided by different publishing companies who use a wide variety of interfaces. That's ONE of the functions of the Library: to help those who are having trouble accessing and using electronic materials. The Library faculty and staff have tried very hard to provide necessary materials and services, all the while being handicapped by a lack of funds. For example: there are 3 scanners in the Library and all 3 were DONATED by Library staff. By the way, some books are not useful in digital format such as art and architecture which rely on large color plates, photographs, floor plans, etc. The art and architecture faculty will agree. Although the Library has over 80,000 e-books, many, many print books are still checked out and students often ask if there's a print copy instead of electronic. Yes, we need a nice, new shiny Library, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this is a University at which research is conducted and the best research universities have the best libraries, both the buildings and the resources within the building.

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Good job. Great post.

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Originally Posted by Houston Techsan

Total BS. You are painting with much too broad a brush. You certainly can find scholarly research article and books on the internet. It may depend on your area of research. For law (I am a lawyer) you really can't beat the internet. It is nice to have all those case law books (unless you're a lawyer you have no idea how many there are), but more important are the digests. I can also find scholarly legal articles discussing the latest cases from relevant courts.

Yes, Tech needs a library but the information needs to be readily available. It was quaint using card catalogs, etc, but the pace of research and publication makes the information covered by them quickly obsolete.

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Indeed students use the internet for information for assignments. I think what LT may want to say that using unverified materials from the internet is not allowed, a very different thing from what was posted.

Outside of the book collection almost all the material used today from the library is electronic. The library subscriptions for these materials is substantial, do not have the current figures anymore.

What is required today is a facility that supports and enhances student, faculty and research needs in all areas. What you will see in the near future is , I believe, such a facility. Whatever it is called the library will be just one of several tenants providing the needed support to our University family.

Thank you MI. I am probably in agreement with loyaltech Alum except for the internet not containing meaningful material. I believe Tech needs a modern up to date library. Does it need a copy of the Gutenburgh Bible like UT has which only a few can access or other esoteric collections which are not available. No.

Of course I understand that the library cannot scan and put everything on a web site. That would violate the copyright laws (copyright is part of my legal specialty). If access to the scanned material was limited to students (hard to verify) then a fair use exception for educational purposes would accrue. Because multi users may easily only one digital copy, the prices for such material is higher than a printed copy. It's like having a hundred copies.

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Originally Posted by Houston Techsan

Total BS. You are painting with much too broad a brush. You certainly can find scholarly research article and books on the internet. It may depend on your area of research. For law (I am a lawyer) you really can't beat the internet. It is nice to have all those case law books (unless you're a lawyer you have no idea how many there are), but more important are the digests. I can also find scholarly legal articles discussing the latest cases from relevant courts.

Yes, Tech needs a library but the information needs to be readily available. It was quaint using card catalogs, etc, but the pace of research and publication makes the information covered by them quickly obsolete.

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I've yet to find the same type of materials from LEXIS/Nexis available on Google or Yahoo

Paragraphs are always encouraged

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Originally Posted by loyalTechAlum

I've yet to find the same type of materials from LEXIS/Nexis available on Google or Yahoo

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I have no use for either LEXIS/NEXUS or WESTLAW. But technically they are internet based. You don't have to go to library to use them.

I live and work in Texas and actually the State Bar provides (over the internet) research tools which I have occasionly used. However the statutes and codes are all on line free. When I forget I can always google the statute by subject and state.

We don't have a Gutenberg but we do have a very old copy of Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

It seems to me loyalTechAlum and Houston Techsan are talking about different things. HT initially was speaking of the library as "space;" lTA referred more to cost, specifically the cost of access to databases, etc. I agree with HT that we don't need a huge building to house hard copies of books and scholarly journals, but I also agree with lTA that the library does need a big(ger) budget to purchase access to electronic sources. (apologies if I've misunderstood either of your stances)

Also, loyalTechAlum, when you say Louisiana Tech does not allow students to use internet sources, I assume you mean students can't cite webpages, etc.--is that correct? But you are allowed to use scholarly articles, etc. retrieved via the internet, correct?

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Originally Posted by Dawg06

The Tech librarians would know and are very helpful.

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Especially when it comes to helping basketball refs.

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Originally Posted by maverick

It seems to me loyalTechAlum and Houston Techsan are talking about different things. HT initially was speaking of the library as "space;" lTA referred more to cost, specifically the cost of access to databases, etc. I agree with HT that we don't need a huge building to house hard copies of books and scholarly journals, but I also agree with lTA that the library does need a big(ger) budget to purchase access to electronic sources. (apologies if I've misunderstood either of your stances)

Also, loyalTechAlum, when you say Louisiana Tech does not allow students to use internet sources, I assume you mean students can't cite webpages, etc.--is that correct? But you are allowed to use scholarly articles, etc. retrieved via the internet, correct?

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Absolutely. I just wanted people to know that you have to have more than just and internet connection to provide materials for academic research. Specialized databases and journals (which are provided to us VIA the internet, as you said) cost big bucks.

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Originally Posted by Mad Italian

Indeed students use the internet for information for assignments. I think what LT may want to say that using unverified materials from the internet is not allowed, a very different thing from what was posted.

Outside of the book collection almost all the material used today from the library is electronic. The library subscriptions for these materials is substantial, do not have the current figures anymore.

What is required today is a facility that supports and enhances student, faculty and research needs in all areas. What you will see in the near future is , I believe, such a facility. Whatever it is called the library will be just one of several tenants providing the needed support to our University family.

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Now, C'mon, Mad Italian, you and I know each other very well and you know that we both want the best for Tech's academic community. Of course, I meant unverified internet sources and you also know that most students DON'T know the difference. They have to be taught. Even some professors are confused because they do not want to accept pdf or html versions of scholarly journals because they are electronic and the think they may be internet sources. All of our databases are provided to us VIA the internet, but I wanted people to know that a university library has to spend big bucks for specialized journals and databases. We're on the same page, so let's not split hairs. We both want EXCELLENCE for Tech, nothing less.

Journals are cartelizing academia. The perceived status of an academic program is correlated with how many millions they can spend for the journals to allow them to use material.

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Originally Posted by loyalTechAlum

Now, C'mon, Mad Italian, you and I know each other very well and you know that we both want the best for Tech's academic community. Of course, I meant unverified internet sources and you also know that most students DON'T know the difference. They have to be taught. Even some professors are confused because they do not want to accept pdf or html versions of scholarly journals because they are electronic and the think they may be internet sources. All of our databases are provided to us VIA the internet, but I wanted people to know that a university library has to spend big bucks for specialized journals and databases. We're on the same page, so let's not split hairs. We both want EXCELLENCE for Tech, nothing less.

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Wait. You mean you can't source everything you find on the Internet? I do that all the time, especially stuff on Facebook. Heck, i used material from BBB in my thesis.


Before that I just made stuff up.

"It's very disappointing to see comments like this from Tech alums...."

Most of the guys on this forum never knew where the library was. Heck, Hogdawg found it, but when he discovered they didn't stock comic books, he never went back.

So, cut 'em slack in library discussions.