Immigration

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

You think those things will fundamentally change the way that Washington works?

---

I think the ties to Comey/Clinton/Obama could be huge. We will see.

No doubt TPP cancellation was upsetting to the swamp dwellers. Not that the next RINO or socialist democrat won't join back up and get their cash flowing again, but stopping that cash flow has been huge.

None of the business regulation eliminations would have been signed under Clinton. Not many under any of the RINOs.

Yes, getting as much domestic energy production in place as possible over the next 3 to 7 years is huge. We'd have had a net decline with Clinton and many of the RINOs in place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

I think the ties to Comey/Clinton/Obama could be huge. We will see.

No doubt TPP cancellation was upsetting to the swamp dwellers. Not that the next RINO or socialist democrat won't join back up and get their cash flowing again, but stopping that cash flow has been huge.

None of the business regulation eliminations would have been signed under Clinton. Not many under any of the RINOs.

Yes, getting as much domestic energy production in place as possible over the next 3 to 7 years is huge. We'd have had a net decline with Clinton and many of the RINOs in place.

---

You know I value your opinion and respect you quite a bit, but those things seem like short term things that won't amount to a hill of beans once Trump is out of office.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

What has he done to drain the swamp? Genuine question. What has Trump done to eliminate the corrupt DC establishment since his election?

---

What can he do?

He is likely doing all he can from his position. He is not a part of the Republican establishment (or the Democrat establishment) so whatever he does is done as an outsider.

He is not a conservative or a liberal or really anything that can be easily defined. My biggest concern going in is that he would be wooed by the democrats and work to implement their agenda (because Trump is not an ideologue at all). I am pleased that has not happened.

He is using the bully pulpit to shine light on things that some folks don't want you to see. Like voting for 7 years to repeal Obamacare on a party line vote, then when it could become a reality they suddenly cannot find the votes to do it. My hope is that he will stop their insurance subsidies like he suggested, and maybe then they will figure out a way to fix what they created.

He has swamp loyalists leaking information every day in an effort to stop him in his tracks (Dems and Repubs). He is being attacked by both parties and the media daily. Many, I think, would rather see the nation destroyed than give up their power.

You didn't think the swamp would be drained willingly, did you? In the end, I suspect the swamp will win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow

What can he do?

---

You tell me. What I'm hearing is that he was hired as a swamp drainer...if he "can't do anything" then why did y'all elect him?

I assume that you're less than impressed with his negotiation skills since assuming the office.

Rumor has it that Bannon is a leaker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

You tell me. What I'm hearing is that he was hired as a swamp drainer...if he "can't do anything" then why did y'all elect him?

I assume that you're less than impressed with his negotiation skills since assuming the office.

---

You are getting off track again. His swamp draining jargon meant no more to his voters than the wall building jargon. We elected him to prevent Clinton from doing more of what Obama had done. That's working out fine. You refuse to admit it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

You refuse to admit it.

---

I don't refuse to admit that he isn't Clinton or that I'm glad Clinton isn't President. I refuse to accept that it was worth the baggage and damage he's done to the conservative movement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

I assume that you're less than impressed with his negotiation skills since assuming the office.

---

You cannot negotiate with a swamp to destroy it. If anything, I think he has exposed the swamp is "swampier" than previously thought. Negotiation only works when you have two sides wanting to accomplish something other than to destroy the negotiator.

For instance...the rank and file republicans always stated their goal was to repeal the ACA. They ran on it, voted on it when it was meaningless, and won both the house and senate because of it. Now we see it wasn't their intention after all. They never expected to have to act on it and take responsibility for it, because they never thought someone outside of their club would win the presidency and expect them to do as they promised. And as much as Trump has pushed repeal and replace and the preexisting conditions clauses of the ACA, he said he would sign a straight repeal as well.

Dems KNEW from the beginning the ACA was destined for complete collapse. They slow walked the implementation into existence in the hopes that people would not notice how horrible it was, and in the end their goal was always a single payer system (so we can all have VA type healthcare (except them, of course), because they have done so well with that.

So where is the room for negotiation? The republicans are incapable of getting out of their own way and Mitch McConnell has already blamed Trump for increasing expectations (after voting to repeal that very same legislation dozens of times in the last 7 years and stating in December that such legislation would be done quickly and put on the President's desk for his signature). The democrats will negotiate nothing proposed by republicans or desired by Trump. They only want the house and senate (and presidency) back. They would all rather see the United States collapse than to see an outsider succeed.

I didn't vote for him because I did not trust him. I would vote for him today just because he has slowed the rate of slime coming out of DC and into our daily lives.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow

You cannot negotiate with a swamp to destroy it. If anything, I think he has exposed the swamp is "swampier" than previously thought. Negotiation only works when you have two sides wanting to accomplish something other than to destroy the negotiator.

For instance...the rank and file republicans always stated their goal was to repeal the ACA. They ran on it, voted on it when it was meaningless, and won both the house and senate because of it. Now we see it wasn't their intention after all. They never expected to have to act on it and take responsibility for it, because they never thought someone outside of their club would win the presidency and expect them to do as they promised. And as much as Trump has pushed repeal and replace and the preexisting conditions clauses of the ACA, he said he would sign a straight repeal as well.

Dems KNEW from the beginning the ACA was destined for complete collapse. They slow walked the implementation into existence in the hopes that people would not notice how horrible it was, and in the end their goal was always a single payer system (so we can all have VA type healthcare (except them, of course), because they have done so well with that.

So where is the room for negotiation? The republicans are incapable of getting out of their own way and Mitch McConnell has already blamed Trump for increasing expectations (after voting to repeal that very same legislation dozens of times in the last 7 years and stating in December that such legislation would be done quickly and put on the President's desk for his signature). The democrats will negotiate nothing proposed by republicans or desired by Trump. They only want the house and senate (and presidency) back. They would all rather see the United States collapse than to see an outsider succeed.

I didn't vote for him because I did not trust him. I would vote for him today just because he has slowed the rate of slime coming out of DC and into our daily lives.

---

So, he can't negotiate and he is powerless to drain the swamp. Did y'all vote for him for the SNL skits?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

So, he can't negotiate and he is powerless to drain the swamp. Did y'all vote for him for the SNL skits?

---

We didn't vote for Clinton.

Yes it has already proven to be worth it because we got a SCOTUS appointment and will likely get another one. There was not a conservative movement before him. He is much closer to the Tea Party that any of the candidates outside of Paul and Cruz.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

We didn't vote for Clinton.

Yes it has already proven to be worth it because we got a SCOTUS appointment and will likely get another one. There was not a conservative movement before him. He is much closer to the Tea Party that any of the candidates outside of Paul and Cruz.

---

The Tea Party proved incredibly ineffective. We've tried this outsider stuff before and it only frustrates the voters. Y'all haven't reached the frustrated phase yet, but I feel like it's coming pretty soon.

Regardless, if he was elected to change the way that DC works, I would understand that. Clearly, he's not effective there. If he was elected to to negotiate across ideological lines, I would understand that, he's clearly not effective there.

I keep hearing that he was the clear choice because of one of the two above, but I'm not buying it.

If the ONLY reason y'all voted for him was that he isn't a Clinton, I understand that, but for the love of God, call him out when he's not acting as a conservative because we don't want to be painted with the Trump brush in the future. Let's not expend all our political capital defending someone who doesn't stand for what we believe in.

Call him out when he needs to be called out.

Nationalistic populism is dangerous and intellectually bankrupt. Let's avoid letting someone like that be our standard bearer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnnylightnin

I understand that, but for the love of God, call him out when he's not acting as a conservative because we don't want to be painted with the Trump brush in the future.

---

Honestly, GW Bush did more to damage conservatism than Trump has done, and Trump does not claim to be a conservative. I voted for him because he was better than the alternatives, but he was just another big-spending republican with a sense of entitlement...just like the democrats.

As for Trump:

Supreme court nominee that follows the constitution...check.

No new big government spending programs proposed....check.

Reduction in regulation and reeling in the EPA....check.

No "spread the wealth around" or masking such as "compassionate conservatism" speeches...check.

We shall see what the future holds, but so far so good.

I will add:

Taking the shackles off our military, as evidenced in Syria and Iraq, and allowing our military to do their thing.

Attempting to fix the corrupt VA. How much did Bush, Obama, and Clinton ass hats make from that corruption?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow

You cannot negotiate with a swamp to destroy it. If anything, I think he has exposed the swamp is "swampier" than previously thought. Negotiation only works when you have two sides wanting to accomplish something other than to destroy the negotiator.

For instance...the rank and file republicans always stated their goal was to repeal the ACA. They ran on it, voted on it when it was meaningless, and won both the house and senate because of it. Now we see it wasn't their intention after all. They never expected to have to act on it and take responsibility for it, because they never thought someone outside of their club would win the presidency and expect them to do as they promised. And as much as Trump has pushed repeal and replace and the preexisting conditions clauses of the ACA, he said he would sign a straight repeal as well.

Dems KNEW from the beginning the ACA was destined for complete collapse. They slow walked the implementation into existence in the hopes that people would not notice how horrible it was, and in the end their goal was always a single payer system (so we can all have VA type healthcare (except them, of course), because they have done so well with that.

So where is the room for negotiation? The republicans are incapable of getting out of their own way and Mitch McConnell has already blamed Trump for increasing expectations (after voting to repeal that very same legislation dozens of times in the last 7 years and stating in December that such legislation would be done quickly and put on the President's desk for his signature). The democrats will negotiate nothing proposed by republicans or desired by Trump. They only want the house and senate (and presidency) back. They would all rather see the United States collapse than to see an outsider succeed.

I didn't vote for him because I did not trust him. I would vote for him today just because he has slowed the rate of slime coming out of DC and into our daily lives.

---

Look, Trump says one thing to please his base and to get elected. "Drain the Swamp" was one of those promises. Trump has no intention fo draining the swamp because he supports the swamp 100%. The Swamp is all about money in the political process and if Trump was sincere about draining the swamp he would propose limits to lobbying and political campaigns. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to do so.