:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick
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:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick
Wow! This guy is just bat smit freaking crazy!
Obama To End Registry Used To Track Muslims After 9/11
The move, though largely symbolic, could stymie efforts by the incoming Trump administration to track and monitor Muslims
Dec 22, 2016 at 1:07 PM ET
The Obama administration announced on Thursday that it will dismantle a dormant national registry that was used to track tens of thousands of Arab and Muslim men following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
With a simple rule change set for December 23, the Department of Homeland Security will officially end what is known as the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System, or Nseers — a program that President-elect Donald Trump has considered reviving.
The act, first reported by the New York Times, is largely symbolic for Obama, who has sought to shore up his legacy on such issues as immigration and climate change in the final weeks of his presidency. The registry has not been in use since 2011. But looming fears of how a Trump administration might seek to track or target Muslims in the U.S. has prompted Democrats, lawmakers, and civil rights groups to urge Obama to dismantle Nseers’ regulatory framework.
MORE
Cities Amass Multi-Million Dollar War Chests To Fight Trump
“We can’t risk giving President-elect Trump the tools to create an unconstitutional religious registry,” New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman said in a statement this week, urging the outgoing president to end the registry. Last month, nearly 200 organizations fearful that Trump could revive the controversial program, created under the George W. Bush administration, asked Obama to abolish it before he left office.
More
http://www.vocativ.com/386648/obama-...k-muslims-911/
Worst prez in history. Right up to the bitter end obummer continues to reach new lows and set records for futility.
For the first time since 1937 the US has no, zero, nada, zilch, aircraft carrier, and its battle group, at sea. Due to the overt neglect of US armed forces by this sorry piece of crap, our available carriers are all in port due to disrepair. Now, we do have deployed some amphibious "flat tops" which are Marine Corps ships with attack helicopters and Harrier Jets. But those are not designed to impose maximum strike capability the way a super carrier can.
Nope. It's been 79 years since the US last was without a carrier group at sea. Another great job by obummer. The Navy just has to deal with all the budget cuts so obummer can bring in millions of illegals, and take care of his mooslim buddies. Good thing obummer wasn't prez in 1941, else our three Pacific carriers would have been in port....at Pearl Harbor, and been destroyed by the Japs. Instead they were all out on routine patrols and training missions. Six months after Pearl Harbor those three carriers pulled off the biggest naval victory of WWII, at Midway. Sinking all four Jap carriers who had attacked Pearl Harbor. That turned the tide in the Pacific. After Midway, we were on the offensive, and the Japs fighting a defensive war of retreat.
Gawd! January 20th can't get here fast enough.
Nimitz: Bremerton
Eisenhower: Norfolk
Vinson: San Diego
Roosevelt: San Diego
Lincoln: Newport News (RCOH)
Washington: Norfolk
Stennis: Bremerton
Truman: Portsmouth (PIA)
Reagan: Yokosuka (Japan)
Bush: Norfolk
So, anyone check troop movements?
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....82,268_AL_.jpg
How can any reasonable person deny he is a muslim?
How can any reasonable person deny that he does not love America?
How could any resaonable person have voted for him?
Just reply with the reasons you are a resonable person.
I can see Jubru is going thru withdrawals as HIS president is about to vacate the WH. Don't worry, Jub, your food stamps won't be taken away.
And yep, every carrier is IN port. Which is the point. Duh!
Uh...is it just me, or does this seem like a bad idea to anyone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
Yet again showing your ass. Must be red from wind burn by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
If you mean it's a bad idea to publicize where our carriers are, well, no. It's irrelevant. With satellites our enemies track their movement anyway. They also know when our supply ships and tankers put into a port that a fleet, or a task force, isn't far behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
No, there is no way to keep the movement of our carrier groups a secret. But, what is important is for said carrier groups to be in the open sea where it can deploy defensive measures and better protect itself. In port, especially a foreign port, there are restrictions and it gets cramped in there.
Our super carrier groups are designed to remain at sea, well, indefinitely. Supplies, fuel can be brought to it, and repairs, maintenance can be performed while at sea. But, all of that takes money. And obummer has so slashed the Pentagon's budget that the Navy has had no choice but to bring our carriers into port.
Here's a little historic tidbit...
Beginning in 1928 the carrier USS Saratoga began patrolling the Pacific, she and her group. She was later joined by the USS Ranger and then the USS Lexington, which put to sea in 1937. With the Lexington joining our fleet in 1937 that began the string of continuous patrols and us having at least one carrier group on active patrol.....until 2016. The USS Enterprise, Yorktown*, and Hornet all were launched in time to be in active service prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor.
* the Yorktown was launched in 1936 but was kept close to its home port of Norfolk, Virginia mostly for political reasons. Seems high ranking admirals liked to entertain politicians (Congressmen) on board the brand new, swanky ship, I guess to get more funding for more carriers.
Yeah, location information is readily available. There are no secret movements for these.
Nice Summary
THE OTHER RUSH
ERIK RUSH http://www.wnd.com/files/2011/12/Erik-Rush_avatar.jpg
Obama swan song epitomizes the left's character
Exclusive: Erik Rush says prez would 'be perfectly happy to catalyze World War III'
Published: 5 hours ago
Earlier this week, my WND colleague Jesse Lee Peterson penned a thorough enumeration of actions taken by Barack Hussein Obama since the November general election to do damage to the nation (as we understand it) as well as to delegitimize the presidency of President-elect Donald Trump prior to his inauguration later this month.
Shortly after the election, I admonished readers not to be surprised at anything the left comes up with between now and the day Obama leaves office, and Peterson’s column handily provided bullet points for that argument.
During a weekend appearance on Fox News, pollster Frank Luntz dubbed Obama’s campaign of executive orders, slandering of Russia and attempted sabotage of Trump during his final days as president an “F-You tour.”
Most prominent among Obama’s actions has been his harrying of Russia vis-à-vis accusations that her government somehow influenced the November election in Donald Trump’s favor through digital means despite any evidence whatsoever of this having taken place. Relying as always upon the complicit establishment press to back him up, Obama took punitive steps against Russia in the form of sanctions and the expulsion of some of its diplomats from the U.S., a futile but insulting move calculated to antagonize rather than penalize.
Would Obama be perfectly happy to catalyze World War III through these antics? Probably – but if there’s anything the left’s radical icon Saul Alinsky stressed, it was patience. Chances are that Obama is looking forward to his days as a celebrated elder statesman and the opportunities this will present for furthering his destructive mission.
It is noteworthy that earlier this week, incoming White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer referenced the massive 2015 hack wherein – among other things – millions of federal employees had their unique fingerprint records stolen. While U.S. officials accused China of initiating that event, there were never any repercussions for the Chinese government. This is significant not only because the hacking event was well-publicized, but because some in the Western intelligence community suspected that this was done with the full countenance and cooperation of the administration.
Obama’s federal land grabs and clandestine importation of yet more unvetted Muslims into American cities further validate the contention that these actions are deliberately spiteful. Rest assured that we can look forward to more of this sort of thing prior to Inauguration Day.
One may recall that a hallmark of the Obama administration has been its habit of doubling-down on questionable policies and criminal procedures when confronted, threatened, or when one of its dark machinations are brought to light. When Border Patrol officer Brian Terry was killed by drug cartel soldiers in 2010, thus revealing the motivation behind the administration’s Fast and Furious gunrunning operation (this being to foster a widespread and irrational fear of firearms via turning our southern border states into a war zone), Obama and his minions did not dial back their actions. Rather, they proceeded to exploit each and every subsequent crime in which a firearm was employed as evidence of the need to incorporate draconian firearms measures into law. Some suspect that the administration may even have orchestrated a high-profile gun crime or three to drive home the point; it is difficult to make this determination, since the principals in these incidents are, and are likely to remain, quite dead.
Obama’s current exploits are certainly consistent with regard to this particular modus operandi.
What kind of person would feverishly engage in actions so demonstrably harmful to our national security, domestic tranquility and which fly in the face of the rule of law?
Some of us have been addressing this question for the last eight years. The answer? A malignant narcissist who, as I said last week in this space, possesses the belief that his worldview is so superior to all others that he has the right to impose it upon everyone else. Factor therein a deep hatred of America (as we understand it), and we have a ruthless, ends-justify-the-means dictator who has not been recognized as such only due to the treachery of the press and the American progressive-socialist machine it serves.
Another answer: The sort of person who can smarmily lie time and again regarding his having saved millions of American jobs while half of our workforce is out of work, or about his signature health-care law having covered millions of uninsured Americans when in fact the law has forced millions into the federal system of substandard medical care.
Yet another answer: A person whose policies directly led to the deaths, maiming and enslavement of tens of thousands of souls across the Middle East and Africa, and who could sleep like a baby after deliberately leaving American diplomatic personnel to die at the hands of jihadis one night in Benghazi, Libya.
The widespread baseless accusations, fearmongering and despotism in which Obama has engaged since the election underscore who he is at his core: An ill-bred, horribly maladjusted and arguably psychopathic low-level street organizer and catty, vindictive bath-houser who has been allowed to believe his own publicity for far too long.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/#m6PF7ViLfoqmxRWT.99
BETWEEN THE LINES
JOSEPH FARAH
Why Obama, Kerry are evil, not just wrong
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/#m6PF7ViLfoqmxRWT.99
Propping up US-Iraqi Mosul flop exposed Baghdad
http://www.debka.com/dynmedia/photos...yed_Humvee.jpg
DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis Dec 31, 2016, 5:20 PM (IDT)
US and Iraqi military reinforcements were rushed this week to the crumbling Mosul front line to prop up the few positions still held by the Iraqi army and prevent the US-backed offensive from crashing into defeat at ISIS hands. The Islamists took advantage of the transfer of Iraqi troops to Mosul for their first major terrorist attack in central Mosul in three months, killing 28 people and injuring 40, as well as declaring war on Jordan.
More>
No...I meant all of them in port...and none battle ready.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
The lies being told by Obama and the democrats are no longer even half truths. They are just flat out lies.
Oh, right. Well, you can thank obummer for that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
But remember, the obummer propaganda machine did say we have those Marine "flat-tops" with attack helicopters and Harrier jets deployed. So, we have that going for us.
Our muslim president pronounces Marine Corps as "Marine Corpse"
Well that's nice. I guess he also has the nuclear football within 10 feet at all times, so there's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Does he also say "nucular"?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Leaving entire syllables out seems to be acceptable now that verb conjugation is no longer important. Adding syllables or mispronunciations by Obama are ignorant, but ignored mistakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by techman05
Careful....Jubru will red dot you for less than what you just posted!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Hopefully Obozo will not screw up anything else before he leaves office in 15 days!!!! However, I know he will....he is a CLUSTERFK!!Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Wow! what a great speech. I was mesmerized. President Barack Obama delivered his farewell speech tonite. Always knew he was a very good orator. Could always deliver a great speech, that much is true.
But, you know what was the best part of his speech tonite? It was simply this. It was his....
FAREWELL
speech !!!
:)
He sure patted himself on the back a lot!!!!! In 5 more days Obozo can go back to the CIRCUS!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
I read that after 142 years, Ringling Bro. Circuses are closing down for good. Apparently they don't want him back.Quote:
Originally Posted by 70TECHGRAD
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...146-years.html
Back to Kenya with he and his fam.
If only we had made it to Friday. He could have rotted in jail. At least withered to nothing due to another hunger strike.
How can any US citizen "respect" him?
So I am confused. Is it OK to give stuff to wikileaks or not?????Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
This seems to indicate it is OK if all it causes is the death of US servicemen. If it creates embarrassment for obama or halts his globalist agenda that weakens all of America it is still bad.
Great point. They have never been so out of control. It's like somebody kicked a fire ant bed. Notice none of their traditional bleeding heart yellow dog voters are speaking out? They are ashamed as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
Personally, I believe he faked the whole "transgender"/sex change thing to make the US Govt. suffer as much as possible (financially to pay for a sex change) and Obama more sympathetic to him. I am 99% positive had Manning not gone that route, Obama would not have commuted his sentence. And I do have to wonder, can Trump reverse a commuted sentence (I believe pardons are not reversible)?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Manning had shown tendencies of being transgendered while in the Army. If timeline is right, first started acting on it (letter to a counselor) the month after being deployed. Then two months later, during R&R in Germany, went out dressed as a woman. Another few months later (after stealing the material), sent an email to supervisor about having gender identity disorder and a picture of Manning dressed as a woman.
As far as reversing the commutation, it's not really known. Has never truly been tested. There has only been one time a pardon/commutation/clemency has been revoked. W did it as he was leaving. It was revoked on a matter of procedure. So maybe it is possible if it goes the same way. The general consensus I have read today say it is unlikely there is anything Trump can do.
So the question remains, do we have proof (links), or is the proof of timeline ironically "classified"?Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
Update: According to the "Free Chelsea Manning" Website (i.e. ChelseaManning.org), the timeline given only says that Bradley declared himself a woman right after the sentencing. Seems like he was trying to get preferential treatment by the administration once his other avenues had failed.
No idea. I don't know if anyone actually has copies of the letter and email. The grainy black and white picture typically showing Manning in a blonde wig is said to be the picture from the email sent to the supervisor. Can supposedly find it and the email on the Army's FOIA page. (I don't care enough to look.) Some of the news stories having the information from previous post and more were published before Manning's announcement (the day after sentencing).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearpaw
Maybe just trying to pull a Max Clinger section 8? (MASH-Jamie Farr)Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
Except Manning went from an outie to an innie. That would be one helluva commitment.
Has she actually had the surgery? I see the surgery was approved in September 2016 but I haven't read that it was performed. It would be quite ironic if the sentence commutation meant the surgery wouldn't occur.
Probably not, then.
And I think you meant wouldn't occur.
Are you saying Prez is trying to save tax payer dollars? First time in 8 years.
No, I think she meant "would occur". Why not release him today?Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
I find it more ironic fighting for the surgery, winning, celebrating, but would now have to pay for it instead of the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearpaw
And release in May to make it full 7 years since arrest.
I did mean "wouldn't," JuBru--thanks.
I'm not really sure what you meant there. Are you missing a word or two?Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
uh, probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearpaw
Manning fought to have government (taxpayer) pay for it. Now Manning has to pay for it. Did all that fighting to get it done on government (taxpayer) dime and to made a big show about it.
Well, at least two of our regulars must be distraught today. Obummer is gone!
http://static5.smi2.net/img/367x283/3540419.jpegNews yesimright.com
Democrat Congresswoman Returns From Syria with Proof Obama Funded ISIS, Exposes It LIVE on CNN
Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard appeared on CNN after finding facts that she believes proves Obama’s involvement in funding ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Gabbard went to Syria, then was interviewed by CNN afterward with Jake Tapper where...
Read more→
Interesting, though flawed, interpretation of what she said.
Taken straight from the people who have suffered the most. Yes, obummer supported ISIS, hell! he created it. He even tried to send $220 million more to radical moooslims to fund more attacks on Israel. Fortunately the Repubs in Congress finally showed a backbone and blocked it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
obummer is a radical mooslim. That fact is beyond dispute. obummer tried to destroy our country, and did succeed in doing a lot of damage.
obummer's apologists and those who support the destruction of America (like a poster on this very forum) will continue to try to spin it to protect their hero. But, there are enough good people to get the truth out.
Obvious propaganda is obvious. You believe too easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Numerous ISIS dead counters the first part.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Helped create through negligence would be more accurate for second part.
Two republicans had holds on the payment. Obama ignored precedent (again) and sent it anyway. Trump stopped it through the State Department.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Yes, it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Mostly.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Me pointing out your repeated dumbassery doesn't make me a supporter of Obama or for the destruction of America. That is outrageously ignorant of and embarrassing for you. Of course, you would have to have the ability to think and reason to know that, so I forgive you.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
But do Louisiana a favor and stay away from the legislature. I mostly love your business acumen, but it's tainted by everything else.
Well, you broke the commentary into 6 parts. Went to too much trouble trying to spin away your devotion to obummer, because it didn't work.
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Being proudly ignorant is not a trait you should carry with glee.
It looks good on you, so roll with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
Never am.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
It will take Trump at least 2 years to undo all of Obozo's fk ups!!
What??? I thought Al-Qaeda all went away with "Obama's killing" of this clown's daddy.
Bin Laden son looks to avenge father as Al-Qaeda 'stronger than ever'...
Classified documents show Obama illegally spied on Americans for years...
May 24, 2017
The National Security Agency under former President Barack Obama routinely violated American privacy protections while scouring through overseas intercepts and failed to disclose the extent of the problems until the final days before Donald Trump was elected president last fall, according to once top-secret documents that chronicle some of the most serious constitutional abuses to date by the U.S. intelligence community.
Related:Court clears way for suit against NSA surveillance
http://circa.com/politics/barack-obamas-team-secretly-disclosed-years-of-illegal-nsa-searches-spying-on-americans
And, Obozo illegally spied on Trump!!!!! No wonder he wanted Hillary to win!! Hillary would have swept Obazo's CRAP under the rug.....along with her own illegal CRAP!!
Just more of the same that we will find out as years go by.
'WE'VE BEEN BRUTALIZED'
Warmbier's father lashes out at
North Korea; hits Obama inaction
http://a57.foxnews.com/www.foxnews.c...615_104331.jpg
So what is Trump going to do about it now that the facts are out? Really do not see what Obama could have done since this college student was dumb enough to visit North Korea in the first place. Sounds like another spoiled rich kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Trump just got him released this week and he is now in the states in a coma. Have you not seen the news?Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
Yeah, I saw the news. That's what I'm talking about. The North Koreans beat the living daylights out of this college kid and left him in a coma.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
He's been there for 1 1/2 years! And Obama did nothing to get him home. Trump did!Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
That is probably a good thing. Obozo would have probably sent a billion dollars in cash on a secret flight to North Korea.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
So will the lame stream media blame Obama for their lunatic witch hunt on the Russian/Trump "fake news"? :laugh:
IMHO, this was also done to hide and distract the American people from the Klinton's Russian connections and evil $$ grab by their foundation.
INACTION ON RUSSIA?
Trump: Obama had intel of hacking ahead of election, did 'nothing'
WASHINGTON POST CONFIRMS: TRUMP RIGHT
ON RUSSIAN ELECTION TAMPERING
Obama 'chose not to interfere because most of administration
assumed Hillary Clinton would win'
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/#V3xdZqfDVSFZRTE6.99
Obviously, this would never have become an issue for the media or the dems had Hillary won. It's all about the power for them...no matter where it comes from.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Well of course!
Ex-Obama aide: Trump style 'quicker, more decisive'...
Please just go away!! We don't need the "One World Government" clown telling us what to do.
Obama warns Americans about too much patriotism -- on July 4th weekend...
Plays behind-scenes role in rebuilding Dem Party...
Go away!!Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Obama Meets With SKorean President To Discuss Trump...
Is there such a thing as being un-ex-presidential? Yep, real treason by Obama, but no uproar. His is untouchable.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
OBOZO is a friggin JERK!!Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Actually, this is every previous President's fault the last 45+ years. Trump will try and fix this one but we might end up in another regional war (somewhat larger) with many killed unfortunately.
I just hope they can take that young dictator out quick at the very beginning.
USA Urges All Nationals In NKorea To 'Depart Immediately'...
Hawaii rolls out plan for missile attack...
Trump's approval rating is at 38%. Unbelievably high given his performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Trump is exposing the liars in DC and in the news media for what they are. I think he's the most credible person to occupy the White House in 40 years. I thank God for President Trump every single day.
I wonder if God shares your sentiments?Quote:
Originally Posted by brtransplant
Do you believe God exists?Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
I was referring to brtransplant's God to whom he gave thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
To answer your question, my religion is not based on beliefs.
I'm more interested in spiritual knowledge gained from direct spiritual experiences.
Apparently drugs have been a big part of our experiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
That's interesting. If your religion is based on direct spiritual experiences, does faith come into play at all? And how do you recognize a spiritual experience when you experience one?Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
Faith in what?Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
Why do you say "apparently"?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
answer my second questionQuote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
Can you preface that with "Pretty please with sugar on top"?Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
https://media.tenor.com/images/53ebc...c224/tenor.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
You scared of my follow up question that's coming?
Just another reason you never saw conservatives rioting or needed safe rooms and classes canceled when Obama was President.Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
Daniel said, "Let the name of God be blessed forever and ever, For wisdom and power belong to Him.
21"It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men And knowledge to men of understanding.
22"It is He who reveals the profound and hidden things; He knows what is in the darkness, And the light dwells with Him.…
http://biblehub.com/daniel/2-21.htm
New American Standard 1977
“And it is He who changes the times and the epochs;
He removes kings and establishes kings;
He gives wisdom to wise men,
And knowledge to men of understanding.
And for the snowflakes, rioters and Hillary lovers see below.
Romans 13:1
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which is from God. The authorities that exist have been appointed by God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
Not really. I just didn't care your command prose.
Fine. If you answer my second question instead of ignoring it, I'll answer your question about faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
I kmow I'm having a spiritual experience because (1) the subject matter has some connection to the spiritual and (2) it feels like a hundred volts of electricity is going through my body.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
That is interesting. So, to answer your question...you must have faith in the spiritual world (or whatever you want to call it)...because:Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
1) a sensation of a hundred volts of electricity running through your body can be explained by any one of a multitude of physiological conditions of the central nervous system, including many brought on by something as simple as stress. Just one example... Google Lhermitte's Sign and its association with MS.
2) what evidence exists that an experience you have has any connection to the spiritual? How do you define "spiritual"? If there is no tangible evidence, then it must be something in which you believe, i.e. "faith".
Furthermore, if you have faith that 1 and 2 are elements of a spiritual experience:
1) how is that any different than someone having faith in God?
2) what evidence do you have that these spiritual manifestations of yours are not of God and you just aren't recognizing Him, or are just flat out denying Him? Maybe God is trying to get your attention.
It seems to me...pending reading your definition of "spiritual", that God is a perfectly plausible source of your spiritual experiences, if they are in fact spiritual. I certainly can explain away, quite easily, what you described, clinically...and that is where the faith part comes into play. You have faith that what you are experiencing is spiritual. But what is it? What is the source? You have no evidence that it isn't God. God is, in fact, the most logical explanation. You have halfway accepted it just by accepting and having faith in things spiritual. You just haven't accepted Him.
No offense meant by the way. Just my opinion.
Faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
Nope, faith has nothing to do with it. Maybe my spiritual experiences are just some delusions or chemical interactions or disease manifestation. Who knows for sure. I really don't care what the source is. The question is what spiritual knowledge can I obtain from them. That is the difficult part., maybe impossible.
BTW, I view spiritual as being core element of the natural world and as nothing to do with a belief in the supernatural.
Here's a question for you: Is the universe finite or infinite?
Definition of faithQuote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
plural faiths
play\ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith
- 1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty lost faith in the company's presidentb (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions acted in good faith
- 2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religionb (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return (2) : complete trust
- 3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs the Protestant faith
Faith absolutely has everything to do with it...unless you selectively make a part of the definition work for your purposes. My references to faith are more general in terms of believing in something without tangible proof of its existence. But thanks for answering my question...and I mean that in all sincerity.
As for your universe question...I have no idea for certain. Nor does the answer matter to me. But, I believe that God is not in, part of, limited by, or in any way subject to the universe. He created it. He is beyond it. He has authority over it. In a similar fashion that the people who designed and built the computer I am using are also not in, part of, or limited by my computer. I would want to say that the universe is infinite...but according to the big bang theory, I would imagine that it may be finite, yet continually expanding. What then would be beyond those boundaries? I have no idea. If it is true, then what exploded, where did it come from, and where did the space come from in which the universe expanded? I have no idea if God made the universe infinite or finite. I'll ask Him one day. But whatever the answer is...I don't require knowledge of it. It doesn't affect my faith. That is the nature of faith.
What do you think? Is it infinite or finite?
Scientists that study such matters say that there is a 97% probability that the universe in infinite. Of course, with all the speculation about multiple universes you would think that the question really isn't that important any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
My brother was trying to woo (woo? ya know, get into the pants of) some very (and I mean VERY) attractive woman, who was working on her masters' degree at the same time he was. She loved to spend hours "arguing" different things, one of which was whether the universe was finite or not. So! my bro and I are heading to meet this woman, and her equally gorgeous friend, for a double date, starting out at Happy Hour at a pub where university "intellectuals" hung out to pretend they actually might know something. On the way over, my brother made the mistake of asking me NOT to bring up that finite/infinite universe subject, and for Pete's sake, whatever I did, do not take the opposite side of the argument from her. I assured him I had no interest in that subject anyway. ;)
So! the four of us are sitting at a table, enjoying some European dark beer on tap, and whoops! I let it slip out... (I'm a bad boy....) :icon_roll:
Maybe...4...no, 5 hours later, we were ready to move on to new confines and topics.
I asked what you think. There were points in history during which scientists gave a 97% probability that the earth was flat, that planets orbited the earth, that living organisms generated spontaneously, etc., etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
I think that the universe is infinite because the expansion of space had to be instantaneous in order for the Big Bang to evolve into what we observe today. The 97% probability number comes from a satellite mapping the after-glow of matter distribution after the Big Bang. Scientists and their tools are a lot more capable than in years pastQuote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
cool. So what exactly do you think exploded? And where did it come from? And where did the energy from the explosion come from? And where did the space it exploded into come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
You sure ask a lot of questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
The Big Bang was the result of all the energy of the universe being store in a space the size of a refrigerator. As to your other questions, we may never know the answers but it is really too early to say it is unsolvable given the progress in this area over the last 100 years.
Most scientists say the size of a dot or an atom. But neither you nor they actually know if that is true. And it still doesn't explain the beginning. You have faith that it does though.Quote:
Originally Posted by saltydawg
The reason I am asking these questions is to try and point out to you that, while you think you are certain about the nonexistence of God, you actually aren't certain about any of these things.
There you go again, making things up to suit your purposes. I have ZERO faith in what the BIG BANG was or even if it took place. And nowhere did I ever say that I was certain about the nonexistence of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDawg
What I have said is that I'm not into beliefs, especially religious beliefs. There is no way you can use logic to establish the number of angels that can land on the head of a pin.
I'm convinced that you are convinced of the truth of your religious beliefs because of faith.