2016 Presidential Campaign

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Originally Posted by JuBru

Term limits WILL MAKE THINGS WORSE.

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Ok. Your position is we need more Harry Reid's and John McCains? People that somehow amass a large fortune while working in government. Care to elaborate?

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Originally Posted by JuBru

Term limits WILL MAKE THINGS WORSE.

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I am not so sure about that.

Somehow, the idea of "public service" has morphed into the concept of a "ruling class", where those in these positions have less and less interaction with, and knowledge of, what is happening outside of their government world.

Washington DC and suburbs now has the highest per capita income in the United States, much of which is generated by the tax dollars of the real producers in this country. I'm sure a bit of that is also related to the lobbyists that live there to grease the palms of the political class so they can survive, which is not necessarily a good thing either.

I would bet that 90% of private business pensions have been eliminated (I know this first hand), but those that work in the private sector continue to pay the pensions of those in the public sector. This means that some coal miner or rig worker is working well into his later years to pay taxes to provide benefits for some bureaucrat or "government servant". This can only happen when those that make the laws are insulated from the reality of having to produce something and make a profit to be successful.

Somehow the government has become the top of the food chain, and once entrenched the folks in it seem to stay there forever. In this country, I don't think it was supposed to be that way. It more resembles the central economic planning in the Soviet Union (Russia) and China where the government picks winners and losers and makes all the decisions.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

Term limits WILL MAKE THINGS WORSE.

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care to support that claim with an actual argument?

Same thing I said a year ago, and a year before that, and every other time it is brought up.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

Having "fresh blood" is not good long-term. Government would not function without the overlapping of multi-terms. I know some think that's a good thing (government not functioning), it really isn't.

The problem isn't the term, it's the people serving the terms.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

Government is functioning pretty good, actually. Could it be better? Absolutely. Won't be as long as we have the full-bore progressives and socialist in charge. Lazy idiots, too.

You can't dismiss the "know how things are done" angle because they would have to work in the system as it is. Yes, change it, but still have to work with it. They can't just ignore laws, rules, regulations, etc. We have had 8 open years of that outright, probably more in reality. We want them to be different than what we have and do the things the right way.

But the main reason I say fresh blood is bad is because of the brain-drain it causes. Experience trumps everything. The United States under Obama should end that discussion once and for all. A term-limited Congress would have too great of a learning curve to know how to handle anything. That's dangerous on every level for everything.

Now, if we were to make Congress similar to how we do our military and private businesses hierarchies, career progressions, et al, then we could really be on to something great.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

I disagree with term limits. Seasoned politicians and the lot are a necessary evil.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

Same thing I said a year ago, and a year before that, and every other time it is brought up.


Add in the necessity of experiece.

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I understand your point although I think you are wrong. As the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. There have been well meaning men and women elected, but after a while it becomes easier to just draw a check than try to go out and make it in a real job. I believe my Congressman Abraham to be a good man because I know him personally, but if left in DC to long he'll become a leech just like the rest of them. It's human nature in most cases to look after self before others.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

I understand your point although I think you are wrong. As the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. There have been well meaning men and women elected, but after a while it becomes easier to just draw a check than try to go out and make it in a real job. I believe my Congressman Abraham to be a good man because I know him personally, but if left in DC to long he'll become a leech just like the rest of them. It's human nature in most cases to look after self before others.

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Human nature, yes. But for some of the good guys, like Abraham, I think they truly go into it believing they can change things, then realize the machine has become too big, so they try to play the game according to the rules as they currently exist. Then they become part of the machine. For the really​ good guys, like Abraham, I believe they'll get out before they allow that to happen.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

I understand your point although I think you are wrong. As the old saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. There have been well meaning men and women elected, but after a while it becomes easier to just draw a check than try to go out and make it in a real job. I believe my Congressman Abraham to be a good man because I know him personally, but if left in DC to long he'll become a leech just like the rest of them. It's human nature in most cases to look after self before others.

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I agree, but it is necessary to have seasoned people around. It is on the electorate to not be a group of dumbasses and kick the people that suck out.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

I agree, but it is necessary to have seasoned people around. It is on the electorate to not be a group of dumbasses and kick the people that suck out.

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Now that's a tall order, my friend. :D

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Originally Posted by JuBru

I agree, but it is necessary to have seasoned people around. It is on the electorate to not be a group of dumbasses and kick the people that suck out.

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In a perfect world this would work. However in a country where over half the electorate is receiving some sort of govt assistance, they're going to vote for whoever promises the most to them. That's where we are today. And it's only going to get worse.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

Term limits WILL MAKE THINGS WORSE.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

I agree, but it is necessary to have seasoned people around. It is on the electorate to not be a group of dumbasses and kick the people that suck out.

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Yep, and they should elect a candidate that replaces them that is better.

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Originally Posted by maverick

Human nature, yes. But for some of the good guys, like Abraham, I think they truly go into it believing they can change things, then realize the machine has become too big, so they try to play the game according to the rules as they currently exist. Then they become part of the machine. For the really​ good guys, like Abraham, I believe they'll get out before they allow that to happen.

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I hope you're right. I have a lot of respect for him.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

In a perfect world this would work. However in a country where over half the electorate is receiving some sort of govt assistance, they're going to vote for whoever promises the most to them. That's where we are today. And it's only going to get worse.

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I am okay with limiting who can vote.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

In a perfect world this would work. However in a country where over half the electorate is receiving some sort of govt assistance, they're going to vote for whoever promises the most to them. That's where we are today. And it's only going to get worse.

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We've been told for decades to "vote your pocketbook".

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Originally Posted by JuBru

I am okay with limiting who can vote.

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Hey!! Now we can agree!!

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Originally Posted by JuBru

I am okay with limiting who can vote.

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We already do. I am not in favor of "people like me" deciding only "people like me" should vote. And by me, I mean me, you, him, her, them, those...

The electorate needs to be broad and diverse.