Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dawg80
Wrong Brian96!
Every black born since 1965 has known nothing but guvmint-mandated advantages. If they fail to take advantage of those advantages that's on them.
A more accurate analogy, using your example, is blacks have a guvmint vehicle sitting there and the driver tells blacks running in your relay race, "hop on board, I'll drive you into the lead!"
Then why do the percentages of black executives and elected leaders not even come close to representing the percentage of the population that is black?
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Then why do the percentages of black executives and elected leaders not even come close to representing the percentage of the population that is black?
OMG!
Eat your cookies.
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brian96
What makes it "racism" is that outcomes vary by race. But your take on the issue illustrates why I think the academic term "systemic racism" is unhelpful in fostering understanding and conversation in the public square, since the the word "racism" is heavily laden with moral valence. More helpful might be something like "systemic inequality" or "residual inequality."
A metaphor that has helped me conceptualize residual inequality is thinking of the United States as a relay race. To keep it simple, let's just focus on voting rights, under the hopefully obvious premise that people who vote have at least some influence on the behavior of government and that laws that are passed are going to (at least to some extent) benefit those who vote (as this premise is the foundation for having a representational government in the first place). Focusing just on the right to vote and just the last, say, 300 years (yards for illustration) of our history, the rules of the race (actual laws) initially allowed only White males who owned property to run. Shortly after that, White males who did not own property were also allowed to begin running. Those who made the laws were the first to benefit from them, so within a few dozen years you had the foundation of our entire system of laws as it exists today, but it was designed by--and therefore designed to benefit--White males, and White male property owners the most.
After the White males reached about 170 yards, the rules started to open up to allow Black males also to vote. However, other rules were put in place that severely limited the actual ability of Blacks to vote. So, let's say, for the sake of the metaphor, that Black males were allowed to leave the starting line and begin the race, but their lane was filled with obstacles to slow or completely halt their progress at that point. After the White males reached about 200 yards, women were allowed to begin voting. Finally, after the White males reached the 250 yard mark, the obstacles were cleared from the Blacks' lane.
So now, for the first time in our history, everyone has a level playing field and is free to run as fast as they can toward the American dream. But although the field is now level, we are all at different degrees of progress. The race is a relay, so as a White male, I received my baton about 200 yards further down the track than a Black female born the same day in the same hospital I was.
This is very simplified, but illustrates the foundation. The entire system of laws reflects those who voted for the laws, and implicitly benefits them (in much the same way that if I, at 5'6", were elected to decide how tall kitchen counters should be for the entire nation, someone who is 6'6" is going to be disadvantaged; even if it's not my goal to disadvantage them, but my design is going to be influenced by my worldview). From here you could begin to trace the effects of specific laws over time. And even though overtly racist (in the moral sense) have been purged from the system, their traces are still there and exert an influence. (For just one example, in most of the country, penalties were codified to be more severe for Blacks than for Whites for the same offense. This is one of the reasons Blacks are still more likely to receive a heavier sentence than Whites for the same offense. The stated rationale for the harsher penalties back in the day was that Blacks are inherently more dangerous. This overtly racist sentiment is a sort of ghost that still haunts our legal system.)
What makes this residue so powerful is that for a HUGE number of variables, your parents' status is the biggest predictor of where you'll end up (e.g., intelligence is correlated with parents' education level, so the generations of White males in my family who had access to any kind of school gives me a leg up).
For the record, about 25 years ago my arguments on these topics were all along the lines of what Dawg80 has been posting in the thread. I'm not a "libtard" or whatever. My thinking shifted due to things I observed in real life, which led me to do my own research and draw my own conclusions on the matter.
tl;dr, but i think i know where you're going with it (i understand the concept). i agree it should be called something else if it is not referring to actual extant systems in our society that are biased by race. taking the word "racism" out of it would go a long way toward helping people understand, but this illustrates my point that the people most vocal about it are not at all interested in improving anything -- they are all about division, and the term serves their cause perfectly.
the next thing we have to do is to get everyone to agree that privilege is not oppression. we should recognize the privileges we have, make the best of them, and have empathy and real compassion for people who are less fortunate. but we should not try to make people feel guilty about it or enforce new disadvantages on some in an attempt to compensate for the disadvantages that others suffer. this only perpetuates resentment along racial lines.
also, if what we are really talking about is the residual effects of historical racism, then what exactly are people protesting? if there's nothing we are doing wrong right now, then there must be something the protesters perceive that we should be doing that we are not. so what exactly should we be doing?
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
What percentage of the students were black before they changed their standards?
If you are asking about the magnet schools, I don't know what percentage were white or black, but the qualification were the same. I don't see how percentages matter if qualifications are equal. However, the law suit demanded that the schools be represented by the percentage of racial population. In order to achieve that they had to set different standards. If the goal is to elevate, how does lowering standards for any group promote achieving that goal? To me, your question is not relevant.
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stodgdog
If you are asking about the magnet schools, I don't know what percentage were white or black, but the qualification were the same. I don't see how percentages matter if qualifications are equal. However, the law suit demanded that the schools be represented by the percentage of racial population. In order to achieve that they had to set different standards. If the goal is to elevate, how does lowering standards for any group promote achieving that goal? To me, your question is not relevant.
Why do you think a lower percentage (relative to the population) of minorities qualified for the magnet school before they changed the standards?
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Why do you think a lower percentage (relative to the population) of minorities qualified for the magnet school before they changed the standards?
That's easy. It's because of Trump and Hitler.
See, I've been paying attention.
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Hint: if we were playing Jeopardy, the “answer” would be the title of this thread.
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Why do you think a lower percentage (relative to the population) of minorities qualified for the magnet school before they changed the standards?
:laugh:
If it wasn't so sad, I'd have to laugh.
Goosey, my man, you are truly stupid. I've suspected as much all along, but kept giving you the benefit of doubt. But, this is too much. You are the epitome of what a "libtard" is, a "liberal REtard!"
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Hint: if we were playing Jeopardy, the “answer” would be the title of this thread.
Nonsense. Prove it.
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Then why do the percentages of black executives and elected leaders not even come close to representing the percentage of the population that is black?
Should it? Should there be a quota system? Why don't the percentages of our FB team equal the percentages in enrollment? If there are 10% Catholics in Ruston, should Tech be mandated to be 10% Catholic? Quotas achieve nothing other than make people maybe feel better, but do nothing to elevate ALL citizens.
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stodgdog
Nonsense. Prove it.
Why do you think they we’re underrepresented at the magnet school before the change in standards then?
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Why do you think they we’re underrepresented at the magnet school before the change in standards then?
Double down!!!
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
Why do you think they we’re underrepresented at the magnet school before the change in standards then?
Performance. Standards were equal. What other reasonable answer could there be?
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stodgdog
Performance. Standards were equal. What other reasonable answer could there be?
That is what I am asking. Why was the performance different between black students and white students? What caused the difference in performance?
Re: What is Systemic Racism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
What caused the difference in performance?
Lack of a father figure?
