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From Drudge. And yes he funded and supports the Occupy movement that Obama and his union buds helped create (community organize) and the socialist Dems so love. This guy is a nut job and very dangerous indeed. You must read to the bottom.
George Soros on the Coming U.S. Class War
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/97r..._2_CLIMATE.JPG
Soros: Occupy movement to turn violent...Riots in the streets: 'Yes, yes, yes'...
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...war.print.html
90%+ of that is not about a "class war"... He's expressed a view that most think are going to happen, including yourself.
I do find it interesting, because I didn't know this about him, that someone who survived the Nazis (and Holocaust), and survived communist Hungary, can be anything other than pro-American capitalism and pro democratic-republicanism.
Yeah, he is really an odd character. Helped bring democratic reforms to the former Eastern Block countries and yet wants to do steer the U.S. into a more socialistic state.
He survived by working with the Nazis.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
This is an excerpt from a 60 Minutes interview with Soros in 1988:
When the Nazis took total control of Hungary in 1944, the Holocaust followed. In two months, 440,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to death camps.
To survive, George, then a teenager, collaborated with the Nazis.
First he worked for the Judenrat. That was the Jewish council set up by the Nazis to do their dirty work for them. Instead of the Nazis rounding up Jews every day for the trains, they delegated that murderous task to Jews who were willing to do it to survive another day at the expense of their neighbours.
Theodore (Soros' father) hatched a better plan for his son. He bribed a non-Jewish official at the agriculture ministry to let George live with him. George helped the official confiscate property from Jews.
By collaborating with the Nazis, George survived the Holocaust. He turned on other Jews to spare himself.
Good read, Tyler. Yep, libs are odd .... Buffett plays uke/sings. I guess Nancy will roll out her pole dance next.
To be honest, I don't fault him (or anyone else) for doing what is necessary to survive, especially then. It is beyond me, or anyone else, to say they would have done otherwise in those conditions because they don't know. It's much like I don't agree with lower ranked soldiers being punished for following orders.Quote:
Kroft: "You're a Hungarian Jew ..."
Soros: "Mm-hmm."
Kroft: "... who escaped the Holocaust ..."
Soros: "Mm-hmm."
Kroft: "... by posing as a Christian."
Soros: "Right."
Kroft: "And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps."
Soros: "Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that's when my character was made."
Kroft: "In what way?"
Soros: "That one should think ahead. One should understand that -- and anticipate events and when, when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a -- a very personal threat of evil."
Kroft: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.
Soros: Yes. Yes.
Kroft: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.
Soros: "Yes, that's right. Yes."
Kroft: "I mean, that's -- that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?"
Soros: "Not, not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't ... you don't see the connection. But it was -- it created no -- no problem at all."
Kroft: "No feeling of guilt?"
Soros: "No."
Kroft: "For example, that, 'I'm Jewish, and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be these, I should be there.' None of that?"
Soros: "Well, of course, ... I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was -- well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in the markets -- that is I weren't there -- of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would - would -- would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the -- whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the -- I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.
Soros is a piece of work.
I don't like him, nor how he survived or gained his wealth. And for him to state he only got involved in US politics because he thought GWB was lying to the public....Wow! his whole life has been a lie.
Satan is preparing a special place for him.
Kroft nailed it when he said, "that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years."
I'm convinced that his working with the Nazis in his teenage years drove him to the dark side. He's one evil SOB.
I get the feeling he would have done the same thing at age 24 or 34. Wouldn't surprise me if he goes thru days of hating himself but maybe not. Nothing wrong in my book with putting it on the line to help others survive too. Bet he'd like someone to throw him a rope when he needed it ..... not sure some Jews would do it tho.
I bet he is as well. God raises up leaders and nations as well as allowing and making them to fall as well. Soros, Obama, Putin and the newly created Muslim leaders and countries they run are but evil pawns in the end days scenario IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
It's not that he did at the innocent age of 14, it's that in his older age he feels no remorse. I can understand a 14 year old boy doing what he needs to to survive, but to then not feel regret shows a lack of some basic human compassion.
At 14 I knew right from wrong. I did a lot of wrong! But....I knew it.
I think Soros is the Sith Lord and Obama is Darth Vader.
http://images.wikia.com/starwars/ima...VaderPromo.JPG
Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoDawg
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Originally Posted by dawg80
Yes to all three.Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Won
What does he have to feel remorse about?
Do you always take the other side just to be this way? You lack consistancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
No. And no.Quote:
Originally Posted by maddawg
Read his bio again.Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
I think it's his age. At least I hope so in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by maddawg
I'll play. Imagine if you lived in a town full of JuBru's. Bad guys came into town to kill all of you... your family, your friends, your doctor, your teachers, etc... To save yourself, you got in with the bad guys and started taking property from your family and friends for the bad guys and you watched as they were taken away to be murdered. You looked them in the eye and said, "Sorry, I'm with the other team now... get on the train."Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
And after all these years, you're still cool with that. Cold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuBru
Yep, it's everybody else's fault .....I hear that crap every day coming out of the WH.
I can't believe he hasn't been banned from every civilized country or even poisoned yet.
Soros decries Hungary Orban for anti-Semitic attacks 'reminiscent of 1930s'...
http://a57.foxnews.com/hp.foxnews.co...1a998f7cbe.jpg
POLITICS
Soros-linked group backs lefty prosecutors as 2018 strategy
The real evil behind the Dems/Libs/Obama/Hillary ideology and games intended to destroy America.
Soros Spent RECORD AMOUNT Lobbying In Past Year...
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.B...=7&o=5&pid=1.7
Soros Spent RECORD AMOUNT Lobbying In Past Year...
:laugh: Guess who's probably paying for these non-working clowns to put heat on the Dems in order to flood America with more illegal thugs, murders and rapist?
Angry illegals converge on Schumer home: 'Won't let him sleep!'
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.z...=7&o=5&pid=1.7
Angry illegals converge on Schumer home: 'Won't let him sleep!'
This guy is a deadly virus upon the earth.
Soros Calls For Social Media Regulation to Fight Populism...
What a complete crackpot
George Soros' family took steps to protect themselves when he was a young child. Their real name is Schwarz. That's right, Soros is a stolen name...like identity theft. In 1936 the Schwarzs were ethnically Jewish, their extended family were Jews, but George's parents rejected the Jewish religion and didn't like Jews as people, including their own relatives. They bought a new identity changing their family name to Soros. In Hungary at that time, and across Europe in general, Jews were under siege being blamed for all the bad things in the economy, in politics, etc... So, the new Soros family distanced themselves from the Jewish community. Later they purchased more documents to "show" they were Christians, which they weren't.
Georgie boy embraced this anti-Jewish attitude, and it was an easy transition for him to join the Nazis, as a young teenager. So, was this just a result of parental influence and maybe self-preservation? You know, he was just 14, very impressionable. Well, according to his classmates he really adopted the whole Nazi philosophy. He tried recruiting them to join the Nazi youth group he was a part of. If he was just pretending to be a Nazi while the German Nazi army occupied Budapest he could have done it without so much enthusiasm for that philosophy.
Okay...fast forward...now he's in his early 20's, out of danger of being rounded up by the Nazis and sent to a concentration camp. He's at the University of London, in England! where the German Nazis were hated like no other place on Earth. It would have been safe for Georgie boy to express anti-Nazi opinions....but, he didn't. Instead he embraced the teachings of Karl Popper, an interesting and conflicted professor in the London School of Economics. Popper, an Austrian Jew, was influenced by his uncle who willingly joined the Nazis when Hitler occupied Austria in the late 1930's. By then Popper had left for New Zealand for a teaching position there, and thus was safely out of harm's way when WWII started.
Popper is, himself, an interesting character. But, he expressed support for Marxism as the logical end for what he called "social democracy." Nazism is a step along that path, a philosophical bridge between democracy and Marxism. Popper never defended Hitler's version of Nazism, but he espoused support for the principles upon which "national socialism" is based. Mostly Popper is known for his philosophy on science, and it was in that arena that he taught and wrote his papers on. But, there is a link between science and economics and social discourse/politics....economics is known as the "queen of the social sciences." George Soros was mesmerized by the teachings of Popper. He was a young student of economics, and after reading George Soros' essays on economics that he published back in 2012 or so, I can see the connection between Soros' views and Popper's philosophy.
George Soros is a dangerous individual. Mostly he's into self-centered financial gain. Yes, while he pretends to be some great champion of social justice, he's really all about lining his own pockets. A good example of that was his avid support for the obummer's administration closing deep-water drilling after the BP accident in the Gulf. He then orchestrated the US government's buying leases off the coast of Brazil to appease oil companies, i.e. giving them somewhere else to drill. But, looky here! Soros had bought those leases from the Brazilian government for next to nothing and then jacked up the price and sold them to obummer. Pretend to care about the environment and US coastal waters....oh, so noble he is....and then Bam! huge profits!
When it comes to Soros....just follow the money trail.
Naziism was not a step from democracy to Marxism. Nazis positioned their economic policy as a step away and alternative to Marxism. In the orbit of socialism as it were at that time in Germany - Nazism was the right wing and Marxism was he left wing.
Wrong. Socialism to Nazism and Marxism is the usual pathway. And both Naziism and Marxism are leftist/liberal/Godless/anti-semitic ideologies similar to the current socialist thinking of today (even though they don't realize it nor believe it). And Communism is a Godless ideology as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Hitler and the socialist dream
George Watson
He declared that 'national socialism was based on Marx' Socialists have always disowned him. But a new book insists that he was, at heart, a left-winger
In April 1945, when Adolf Hitler died by his own hand in the rubble of Berlin, nobody was much interested in what he had once believed. That was to be expected. War is no time for reflection, and what Hitler had done was so shattering, and so widely known through images of naked bodies piled high in mass graves, that little or no attention could readily be paid to National Socialism as an idea. It was hard to think of it as an idea at all. Hitler, who had once looked a crank or a clown, was exposed as the leader of a gang of thugs, and the world was content to know no more than that.
Half a century on, there is much to be said. Even thuggery can have its reasons, and the materials that have newly appeared, though they may not transform judgement, undoubtedly enrich and deepen it. Confidants of Hitler. such as the late Albert Speer, have published their reminiscences; his wartime table-talk is a book; early revelations like Hermann Rauschning's Hitler Speaks of 1939 have been validated by painstaking research, and the notes of dead Nazis like Otto Wagener have been edited, along with a full text of Goebbels's diary.
It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too. The title of National Socialism was not hypocritical. The evidence before 1945 was more private than public, which is perhaps significant in itself. In public Hitler was always anti-Marxist, and in an age in which the Soviet Union was the only socialist state on earth, and with anti-Bolshevism a large part of his popular appeal, he may have been understandably reluctant to speak openly of his sources. His megalomania, in any case, would have prevented him from calling himself anyone's disciple. That led to an odd and paradoxical alliance between modern historians and the mind of a dead dictator. Many recent analysts have fastidiously refused to study the mind of Hitler; and they accept, as unquestioningly as many Nazis did in the 1930s, the slogan "Crusade against Marxism" as a summary of his views. An age in which fascism has become a term of abuse is unlikely to analyse it profoundly.
His private conversations, however, though they do not overturn his reputation as an anti-Communist, qualify it heavily. Hermann Rauschning, for example, a Danzig Nazi who knew Hitler before and after his accession to power in 1933, tells how in private Hitler acknowledged his profound debt to the Marxian tradition. "I have learned a great deal from Marxism" he once remarked, "as I do not hesitate to admit". He was proud of a knowledge of Marxist texts acquired in his student days before the First World War and later in a Bavarian prison, in 1924, after the failure of the Munich putsch. The trouble with Weimar Republic politicians, he told Otto Wagener at much the same time, was that "they had never even read Marx", implying that no one who had failed to read so important an author could even begin to understand the modern world; in consequence, he went on, they imagined that the October revolution in 1917 had been "a private Russian affair", whereas in fact it had changed the whole course of human history! His differences with the communists, he explained, were less ideological than tactical. German communists he had known before he took power, he told Rauschning, thought politics meant talking and writing. They were mere pamphleteers, whereas "I have put into practice what these peddlers and pen pushers have timidly begun", adding revealingly that "the whole of National Socialism" was based on Marx.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...m-1186455.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices
Your article agrees with me and contradicts what you said. His opponents were Marxist communists and he proposed that was causing unemployment and hurting the economy, so he advocated a more tactical form of socialism. Of course all of that was cloaked in German nationalism and racist ideology.
Yes originally but keep reading. But you can see that Hitler was a pure Godless socialist to begin with which led to worldwide disaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Well, it is natural to incorporate some of the dominant economic policy into your agenda when you are proposing a transition. In his case, it was a transition to a more liberal economy from a more tightly regulated one. In the case of American socialists, they don’t usually propose complete abandonment of capitalism, but a hybrid of capitalism and socialism.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
That is just the nature of economic transitions.
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
:icon_roll: The nature of socialism, and the usual economic transitions to socialism as you call it, leads to economic devastation, loss of many personal liberties and values, death and destruction. Maybe it's not as rapid as communism but the results end up the same; especially when the economic transition from socialism leads to communism as is often the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Can you read? Do you agree that socialism is more economically liberal than communism? Hitler was moving the economic needle to the right in the direction of socialism from communism.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
American socialists are moving the economy in a less economically liberal direction.
American socialist are moving the economy "to devastation, loss and persecution of personal liberties they don't agree with, lack of concern for human life in general, low moral values, death and destruction". They are or become the real haters and the violent left (which is actually "the right" when violent) as I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Socialism leads to poverty everywhere it is instituted. It's an ideal that simply DOES NOT WORK and is usually promoted by chronic underachievers who are jealous of industrious, hard working people that go to work every day trying to get ahead in life.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Any person has the right to refuse to grow up, and instead, sit on his ass smoking weed all day, but that doesn't mean the rest of us owe him a living.
As an aside...
Have any of you been watching that show "Finding Hitler"? Whether you accept that Hitler committed suicide in his bunker in April, 1945 as history has been reported, or if you think Hitler may have escaped to Argentina or some other locale, it is beyond question the Nazis had plans to get Hitler out of Germany. Makes sense, of course they would have such plans to get Hitler, and other Nazi leaders, out if the war was lost.
One route was from Berlin south to Bavaria and into Austria, and from there two possibilities, one into Switzerland, and the other through Greece to points beyond...the second route was north into German-held Norway, and then onto a sub for transportation to probably Argentina. The German army firmly held Norway and it was the tens of thousands of German troops there who were the last to surrender. The researchers on the show think the northern route made the most sense and if Hitler did escape, it was that way.
The Nazis owned properties in Argentina and in Peru. They had walled-compounds with armed guards there. The Germans also operated harbor facilities, used by some of their ships and subs for resupply and refueling. One such harbor was in Argentina, one in Brazil, and one in Peru.
Anyway, even if history as now portrayed is accurate and Hitler died in Berlin, April, 1945 it is interesting to follow the planned trail(s) of escape. Of course the Nazis would have had such plans.
George Soros probably financed Hitler's planned escape....
Just kidding about that last....Soros hadn't yet accumulated enough wealth in 1945, and he was 14 at that time.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by brtransplant
And now this??? Somebody lock these evil friends and funders of the socialist Democrats clowns up now please.
This is collusion and corruption by a foreign individual bent on destroying America. Trump and the GOP need to call their, the Dems, hand on this family.
Soros son emerging as major player in Dem politics...
Trump and the congress need to ban this raging socialist, democrat loving and democrat donating foreigner from trying to change and influence elections in America.
SOROS MEDDLES IN SAN DIEGO ELECTION...
Would you really support that?Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Indeed I would as he's not an American citizen and is a radical foreign born billionaire, socialist promoting chaos in America and any democracy and capitalistic nation worldwide. He is pure evil! His own country bans him!Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
John Mccain would like to be him
He is an American citizen. Why do you think he isn’t?Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Oh please, he's a scum ball that hates America with a passion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
But why do you say he isn’t an American citizen? And you would deny him his constitutional rights just because you disagree with him?Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
I really don't care if he technically is a "American citizen" or not as his stated goal is to destroy capitalism and America. He is a anti-God "One World and No Borders" Globalist that will and is trying to destroy all in his path including civilization. He is the Darth Vador and Hitler of our age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
But you keep saying he is not an American citizen when he is. Why lie about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
You have some pretty goofy ideas too. How would you feel about being specifically targeted by the government when you didn’t do anything illegal?
Do your own research on his illegal activities in America and around the world and why he is banned from other countries manipulating election these countries. Soros is totally Anti-American and Anti-Semitic even though a Jew himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
But why do you lie and say he isn’t an American citizen?Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Simple mistake but huge mistake by our Feds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
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Originally Posted by Guisslapp
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Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
Simple mistake but huge mistake by our Feds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Why should giving money to a political campaign cause an American citizen to get banned? What kind of America do you really want to live in?Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
:laugh: The poor Emperor/Darth Vador.
Soros: 'Everything
that could go wrong
has gone wrong'
Cites Hillary loss, Trump win, Brexit,
new anti-internationalist fervor
http://www.wnd.com/files/2018/06/sor...lm-285x283.jpg
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/#Y2Ws6kVZDMzJUeTZ.99
President Donald Trump has almost single handedly confronted, and is systematically destroying the evil plans of the globalists like Soros. I believe in my heart that the election of President Trump was an act of divine intervention by God Almighty himself. The president is now standing firm on his America first agenda with the leaders of the G7 nations, all of which are a part of the one world order gang. That has turned the plans of Soros and the other evil globalist completely upside down. The absolute courageousness that President Trump demonstrates daily is nothing shy of amazing to me. May God continue to bless President Trump, and may God continue to Bless America!
When you say “globalist”, what do you mean? Is that someone that bailsbout companies in foreign countries, like China, that compete with American companies?Quote:
Originally Posted by brtransplant
Makes my day to see Soros upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
:)
Back to the Nazism discussion...
Hitler's version of Nazism was very anti-Jewish. He had developed a hatred for Jews, whom he blamed for Germany's loss in WWI. He also thought the Jews took advantage of post-WWI Germany's economic woes to line their own pockets, at the expense of other German citizens. It was very personal with Adolf Hitler.
But, there was also a more generic policy disdain for anyone who profited from, and while, Germany as a whole struggled. This is the very leftist aspect of socialism that is prevalent in all forms of such political-economical philosophies. It is not enough to have a level playing field of opportunity, nope! have to have a leveling of results too. This is where George Soros sits in the scheme of things. He doesn't hide it either, as he writes in his essays "Commentary on Current Events." It is VERY Hitler-like. No, it is exactly Hitler-like! And still, there is this disdain for Jews. To Nazis, like Soros, it's okay to have a free, open system where everyone has the same opportunities...just as long as the Jews don't come out on top. Then, oh my gosh! rules and regulations are needed to curtail those activities where Jews excel.
The American Left, who I lovely (;)) refer to as "libtards," embraces this anti-Jewish philosophy. And anyone who allies with, or acts like, the Jews, are also a target. Notice who the libtards despise (Israel) and who they support, (mooslim terrorists). They have taken a page straight from Hitler's playbook and continue the anti-semantic rampage. Some people are perplexed by the "Jewish" community on the left who are so anti-semantic. Morons like those in the Hollywood Left who are "Jewish" but support every political policy that hurts Israel in particular, and Jews in general. That's because they are like George Soros, Jews in name only. Jews only by family tradition and upbringing, who actually HATE Jews, that religion, and everything about Jewishness. So, again, we see that it is the left who are Nazis.
There is a departure, however, which is what confuses those with a limited view and understanding of how the world works, and that is this. Today's Nazis are not satisfied employing their evil philosophy one nation at a time. They tried that in the 1940's and got their azzes kicked. They now employ a "One-world" approach, Globalism. Instead of trying to corrupt one nation here, one there, they have taken on a grander plan of corrupting the world as a whole. But, that is doomed to failure, as we are seeing. The evil, atheists, anti-freedom Nazis of today are being beaten everywhere. They get small gains, have some success, and then nations slip through their fingers.
They thought they had the US in their grasp. But Americans woke up and kicked Krooked Killary and her Nazi allies to the curb. And you see such Nazis, like our very own goosey, who dutifully continue to try to fool and corrupt people. They are relentless and will never give up. We GOOD human beings must be ever-vigilant and watchful. Do not get complacent. Satan is at work 24/7.
Are you off your meds again? That is some real crazy talk.
Whatever "meds" Dawg80 was on in his above post, a LOT of people should be on. You too. It seems to prevent libtard syndrome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
That is 100% correct and a great read.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
So the NYT will continue their terrible liberal and socialist bias.
Well isn't this special.
The shocking Soros 'Speech Code Cartel' memo
Exclusive: Joseph Farah on most 'diabolical attack on free speech in the history of America
Read more at https://www.wnd.com/#J3GOGMUvTlKwEo88.99
image: https://www.wnd.com/files/2016/01/ge...ty-596x283.jpg
https://www.wnd.com/files/2016/01/ge...ty-596x283.jpg
image: https://www.wnd.com/files/2015/05/ge...os-596x283.jpg
https://www.wnd.com/files/2015/05/ge...os-596x283.jpg
George Soros invests millions in social media after bashing companies
Spending on Facebook, Twitter revealed as industry targets conservative voices
Read more at https://www.wnd.com/#o8LfFzHfW2TZ61oK.99
Take this evil clown's citizenship away!
Soros-backed group fires operative after alleged attack against GOP campaign manager
https://a57.foxnews.com/hp.foxnews.c....jpg?tl=1&ve=1
The Globalist/internationalist evil mantra, wishes and march by either name is Marxism and Communism. Plain and simple. They wish and wished to conquer the world and people groups with their ideology and lethal "form of government" (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, the latest idiots in Venezuela etc...). And many of those started with socialism first. I will take Trumps nationalism or "America first" any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Yep the socialist Dems and Democratic Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortezarer are playing by the socialist Soros book trying to create an all out war and destroy America via class warfare and the economy.
Newcomer to Congress seeks tax as high as 70 percent on wealthy
Honestly, if we are to dig out of this pending $22 trillion debt, something has to be done with taxes...i.e. raising them. BUT!! and this is always the rub, we can't tax our way out of debt. Significant spending cuts....and I mean SIGNIFICANT CUTS!...is what will really eliminate the deficit, and start bringing down the debt.Quote:
Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS
I've posted before, it's not a case of eliminating the debt in some short time period. If we can eliminate the deficit (and that is a huge task) and start paying down the debt, we'll see more confidence in the economy, and from foreign investors.
At the end of Slick Willy's term(s) the national debt was $4 trillion, at the end of GWB's it was about $8.5 trillion, at the end of obummer's it was about $19 trillion, and now we are looking at $22 trillion by the end of this fiscal year (September 30, 2019). So, the lion's share of the debt has been accumulated in the past 20 years or so. What happened between about 1999 and 2019?
There were some tax cuts under GWB, but obummer more than reversed those and doubled down on increased taxes. We had high taxes, fees, penalties on business, banks were paying thru the ying-yang....passing on a lot of those costs to customers, regulation upon regulation...many with "processing fees." BUT! this caused a mass decline in economic activity. 244 large corporations moved their HQ to foreign shores, taking their $billions in taxes with them. Ireland was the single biggest benefactor of this exodus. But of course, many nations benefitted.
We know obummer is the single biggest cause of our national debt and wrecked economy and crumbling infrastructure and loss of manufacturing facilities/jobs. One cannot even say "he's the worst POTUS in history" anymore because that falls short of capturing the enormous damage done during his tenure. Jimmy Carter can be termed as "a worst POTUS in history" because he was a clueless boob. But obummer didn't merely initiate poor policies...he was blatantly DESTRUCTIVE!
So, we know the history, but here we are.
The current projected deficit (FY '19) is $985 billion, might as well say $1 trillion. The IRS collects about $3 trillion in taxes annually. That is up from the $2.5 trillion collected during obummer's tenure, despite the Trump tax cuts. Greatly enhanced economic activity is generating more revenue. The federal budget is about $4 trillion (between $3.8 and as high as 4.2, depending on what source you use). So! seems simple, just cut the federal budget by $1 trillion+, maintain the current revenue, and whallah! no more deficit. Start paying down the national debt, and we'll be okay.
So...where do we cut $1 trillion out of the budget?
On taxes....
the top 5% of income earners earn $300,000 annually (income, not wealth) and collectively pay 46% of all taxes collected by the IRS. That's $1.380 trillion. Is it possible to significantly increase income tax on these folks, maybe double it, and squeeze out another $1 trillion+? The clueless will chime in, sure! just double their tax rates. But, reality is, most, if not all, will simply end some income streams in favor of parking it in "wealth." That will clobber the revenue flowing into the US Treasury, via the IRS, and defeat the purpose of raising taxes. This is has been demonstrated again and again and again and again throughout US history. Unfortunately for our political leaders, they are NOT the smartest people in the room....those in the top 5% are much smarter.
What is the answer then?
Well, some kind of combination of carefully targeted tax increase on the top 5% and SPENDING CUTS!!!!!!!! will provide a path of debt reduction. On the tax side we might realize a small increase in tax revenue from tax increases, such that it still makes financial sense for those so engaged to stay so. This will move the needle only by some $billions, and will not come close to dealing with a $1 trillion deficit.
ONLY significant spending cuts will rectify the deficit/debt.
Well, talk about being handed a loaded gun in the midst of a hangfire......Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
The interest on the national debt will soon approach a trillion dollars a year (especially if the rates keep rising), which means we will have a trillion dollars of tax money going to pay for the excesses of past administrations and figuring out how shrimp handle being on an underwater treadmill. This, at a time when China is looking to militarize the moon (Trump's space force doesn't seem so comical now....imagine our military without GPS satellites which have been knocked out by China's moon-based missles) and both Russia and China have pretty much caught up with us technologically.
We need to abandon the income tax that punishes high achievers and start implementing a value added tax. High achievers are going to be the ones that get us out of this mess.
We are going to have to scale back the welfare state as well. Heck, without a welfare state, we can even open the borders (as long as we are willing to execute violent offenders that come here illegally...because we cannot afford to house them on the taxpayer dime).
We are in deep doo doo.
Where are you getting those figures? A quick google search showed that the top 5% of US household incomes in 2018 included all households with incomes of only $236,360.40 or more. Even more revealing is the fact that the top 30% of US household incomes in 2018 included all households with incomes of $100,000 or more. These household income figures include households with dual earners, so a man and his wife that both make $50K a year are in the top 30% of US household incomes. These people are a far cry from rich, but you can rest assured that any Democrat socialist tax plan will include major tax hikes on this group too. You can not balance the budget on the backs of only 30% of the households in this country. At some tax level, these productive citizens will decide to quit busting their asses everyday, and instead opt to sit on them with the rest of the deadbeat liberal socialists. Then this country can go to hell just like every other socialist country has. Stop the entitlement spending. There we get absolutely no return on investment from the trillions of dollars we waste on it every year. It isn't complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Just some website I Binged up. Whether the mark is $300K or $237K is irrelevant. The top 5% income earners pay 46% of the income tax. But, you are right, as has been demonstrated many times, smart people don't play the silly games of the tax-n-spend DC establishment.
Spending...
There's about $2.7 trillion in so-called "mandatory" spending and $1.3 trillion in "discretionary" spending.
Interestingly, the category of "Medicare & Health" appear in both....about 12% of discretionary and a whopping 43% of mandatory. The Military spending ALL appears under discretionary, about 55% of that portion. Funny thing as it regards the role of the federal government, the Constitution mandates "provide for the common (national) defense". The rest of the crap in the Federal budget has been put there due to politics and The Swamp creating relevancy for itself (for the most part).
The lion's share of mandatory spending, about 50%, is social security, unemployment & labor....whatever that actually means. So, 93% of the mandatory budget is Medicare, social security, and that labor stuff.
What is not shown, on this particular website, is interest on the national debt, which is running about 10% of the budget, approaching $400 billion annually. Actual number shown for 2018 is $384 billion. Have to figure it has, or soon will, top the $400 billion mark.
So....is it possible to raise taxes on the top 5%, or so, without impacting their economic/financial activity, and maybe generate an additional $400 billion to service the debt? Even if that happened (in a perfect world) we would still be digging a deeper hole with the annual $1 trillion deficit.
Okay...so let's raise income taxes on the other 95% of "income tax payers." After all, collectively, that 95% accounts for 54% of the revenue stream into the US Treasury. Can $500 billion be raised without impacting, too harshly, these taxpayers? If yes, then the other $500 billion can be saved via REAL spending cuts in the Federal Budget.
PLEASE NOTE: I said REAL cuts. Not the political games The Swamp plays by calling reductions in increases "cuts."
Where can we find $500 billion in REAL cuts in the Federal Budget? Anyone care to offer some suggestions?
Sometimes you act like the liberals are the rich elites and sometimes you act like they are the deadbeat non-producers. It is all hard to keep track of.
You could go a long way to fill that gap by cutting all the farm assistance, which is also helping fuel our nations diabetes crisis.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Then you can roll back the Trump tax cuts which are adding to the deficit.
The real problem is that Americans live longer, retire earlier, and consume more expensive health care than when Social Security and Medicare rolled out. Without Medicare, insurance for Seniors would be hellaciously expensive. Without Social Security most Seniors would find it near impossible to make ends meet. Unless we want to abandon our elderly, there needs to be a sustainable solution to funding these entitlements.
You're dead on with your assessment of farm subsidies as well as our worsening diabetes epidemic (a ketogenic diet works wonderfully to reverse Type II diabetes, by the way). The problem is, anything we do now will simply be too little, too late. Kind of like the smoker that gets diagnosed with lung cancer or has a heart attack. His stopping smoking at that point is probably useless, but most smokers do FINALLY find a way to once they're faced with a life and death health crisis. Our nation can start sound financial budgeting practices today, but that won't change the inevitable outcome that we're facing. There's only two solution's that could ever allow us to pay off the debt and unfunded liabilities that we've accrued. We can either inflate our way out of it, and pay everybody off with worthless US dollars, or we can declare bankruptcy. Either way, everyone holding on to US debt will get stiffed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Y'all are misinformed regarding "farm assistance". The farm assistance portion of the farm bill is minuscule compared to the free food portion. No regulations on what the have to purchase. Outback and Chilies are acceptable "food"
According to this source....something called the Washington Post...the 2019 budget has about $960 billion allocated toward "farm programs." Of that amount, 80% is for food stamps, 9% to help farmers with "crop insurance," and 6% for "conservation programs," another 5% for "commodity programs" (which is food give aways).
Side note on the commodities: I just had a renter jump their lease i.e. move out in the middle of the night, had the electricity cut off (or the city cut it off due to unpaid bills), and left behind a mess. Included in that mess were 4 large blocks of cheese, unopened, dozens of eggs, and various other food items, all "free" to the renters courtesy of taxpayers. There was rump roasts, still packaged, packs of pork chops and hamburgers, large bottles of ketchup, mustard, mayo, like 3 of each. So on and so forth... Clearly this family didn't need the food commodities...or probably they know they can simply and easily get them replaced and didn't care.
Anyway, according to the WAPO, food "hand outs" account for 85% of the total farm assistance budget. That's about $816 billion. Huge chunk of the budget.
This is a dem talking point, but the facts do not support it. Are we not collecting record taxes AFTER the tax cuts took place? If the taxes were raised back to where they were, would that not stop some of the economic activity that has created this record tax intake?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
As for social security, I would opt out entirely if they just gave me back what they stole from me for the program (they can even keep the percentage of my salary my employer paid on my behalf....and reduced my potential wages accordingly to be able to afford it).
As for Medicare, doesn't medicare for all seem like a really stupid solution given our debt problem? Or are you assuming taxes would be raised to support it, which would further decrease economic activity required for further taxes.
Given the way health care costs escalate dramatically as you age and the costs can be overwhelming in the event of a major health event requiring a hospital stay, it makes sense to spread the costs and risks across the population. That way you can pay a similar rate throughout your life instead of leaving yourself vulnerable to market pressures when you are fixed income. But for the deal to work you need young heathy people that are lower cost users of health care to pay more than they are likely to need during the first part of their lives. BUT, like social security, that deal can only be fair if they know they are going to receive the same entitlement that they helped support.Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow
So, yeah, Medicare for all seems like a really logical way to manage all that. You just need the funding mechanism to be non-discretionary and adequate.
crickets from the ignorant who think the farm bill is for farmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawg80
Who thinks that? I am talking about the 200 billion for farmers.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
This is what you said...Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
"You could go a long way to fill that gap by cutting all the farm assistance, which is also helping fuel our nations diabetes crisis."
How will cutting $200B (of almost $1trillion) from the crop insurance program help fight diabetes?
Like a typical socialist, you are trying to get the crumb money from those who actually contribute to the economy instead of the 80% of mostly waste for non-contributors to the economy. You are so mixed up about what makes the world go 'round.
Dawg80 said 500 billion is the delta that needs to be filled.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
200B in farm assistance (not the near 800B in food stamps) plus roll back of Trump tax cuts gets you most of the way there. Then a little more targeted pruning, especially in contracts to support the military.
Problem solved.
Problem solved by taking away from your hero Pelosi and the other socialist like you who think taking from productive citizens instead of moochers is good for America.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
... and you say you didn't like Obama. You are Obama.
I admit that I'm no expert on farm subsidies. My comment was based solely on my personal experience with a friend of mine whose multi, multi millionaire family receives hundreds of thousands of dollars every year for NOT growing sugar cane on some of the thousands of acres that they own. These people could use this land to grow some other crop, or make it into pasture, or grow trees on it for all I care, but I resent our government subsidizing them to let it sit idle. In my opinion, any kind of subsidy for farmers is stupid, even if it is only 10% of the total spent annually on this BS program.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
What you describe is one of many conservation programs that the socialist liberals crafted many years ago. These programs are not for "farmers". The programs are for land owners. Many, many billionaire liberals own thousands of acres and take advantage of these programs. Here is a list to get you started...Quote:
Originally Posted by brtransplant
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-an...programs/index
Yes, that is the Conservation Reserve Program and one of the several I am referring to. The other two provide insurance.Quote:
Originally Posted by brtransplant
The Heritage Foundation was against them when they were created, so it is kind of surprising that a “conservative” such as Pawdawg would all of a sudden be for them.
https://www.heritage.org/agriculture...isky-taxpayers
You said we need to cut "farm assistance". This is not farm assistance. It is land owner assistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Do some real research before you take up arms with the socialists think tanks.
I think you need to do some research instead of playing semantics. Thus is part of the 960 billion dollar figure that Dawg80 mentioned for farm assistance, that nearly 800 billion goes to SNAPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_programsQuote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Yep! there are a couple of Tech grads, both former members of the BOP, and friends of mine....well, in fact, I had hired him as a part-time financial analyst, when all I had was that part-time slot. He got 20 hours per week, and while it still was a nice salary, all things considered, it was not a fulltime gig and his wife is a stay-home mom for their 3 kids. He had a finance degree from Tech and he was smart, and dedicated, and...I was concerned I was gonna lose him to a fulltime job somewhere else. So, one day, I just asked him...how are y'all making it? He kind of sheepishly said he inherited about 1,000 acres along the Mississippi River, up near Lake Providence, and he gets a "very, very, very nice check from the USDA not to do anything with it." In other words, he didn't even need the part-time pay, he just did it because he liked finance and liked what he was doing for us, and it gave him something to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by brtransplant
Not farm assistance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Not semantics.
The "Farm Bill" - Focus on where the big money is spent not the small percentage that does not involve farmers and food production. (remember your horrible point about diabetes?)
Like I said, 200 bill from the Farm Bill (CRP and 2 insurance programs for farmers) plus roll back of Trump tax cuts almost entirely solves the budget deficit.Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Problem solved.
What is your solution?
Start by taking from the free food program that goes unchecked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
How much? The Republicans have had complete control for the past 2 years. Why didn’t they do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by PawDawg
Complete...Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
Don't be obtuse.
https://i.imgur.com/WYWWTgJ.gif
Because the GOP leadership is mired in the muck of The Swamp too. Not as deep as the dems, and in different parts of The Swamp (emphasis on different sectors), but nonetheless, in it. Trump is the first, and perhaps ONLY, office holder who has ALL Swampers in his sights. This is what some of us are saying on that other thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guisslapp
And, as I think on it, observe what is going on, I lean toward Trump being not tough enough. He needs to take a stand against any budget that does not leave a surplus. There is no line-item veto measure, so just veto the whole spending bill.
BTW, just an aside, another foray into history! The Confederate States of America Constitution was closely modeled after the US Constitution, with some notable differences. One being a line-item veto. The President of the CSA could approve a budget, but strike out certain lines. The Confederate Congress could then vote to overturn the President's line-item vetoes, with a super majority vote in both houses. I don't recall what that percentage was.
I see merit in the line-item veto measure.
Problem with the line-item veto is that is violated the principle of separation of powers. Making the branches of government co-equal was a smart move for mitigating the risk of authoritarianism.