Thank You Skip--since1990 4 out of 8 bowls were with Holtz and about to be 5 out of 9

Dumbass thread wants to fire Holtz ( not to worry because they handful of posters who always post negative ) -- and run off many a BBB reader

here is reality 1990 we played in the beloved I Bowl -JRP w/l 43/52 47% w/l
2001 (11 YEARS LATER ) HUMANITARIAN BOWL -JB 45%
2008 7 years later -- I Bowl again -- Dooly 17/20 45% 17/20 bailed asap
2011 3 years later Poinsetta Bowl Dykes 22/15 59 % bailed asap

Crowton won 61% and had us in top 20= personally loved what he did for us but ignored by bowls


Holtz currently 39/22 58% 2014-Heart Dallas Bowl 2015 New Orleans Bowl 2016 Bowl 2017 Frisco bow

that's 4/8 bowls since 1990 ( did I mention we won all of them)

his first yr signed recruits included (2013) --Xavier Woods Trent Taylor -Carlos Henderson ( Dykes had a lot with recruiting before he bailed)

GUARANTEE THE SAME OLD HANDFULL OF HATERS WILL FIGURE A WAY TO RIDICULE THIS POST -- BUT BELIEVE THE REAL FAN BASE APPRECIATE WHAT HE HAS ACCOMPLISHED --

Well, as usual stats are flawed. Holtz inherited a lot better situation from the Dooley and Dykes era's than JRP, Crowton, or Bicknell had. Put Holtz in JRP's position and let's talk.... Some might even say Crowton won with JRP's recruits. Winning is a process, it takes time...Holtz has peaked, is it a tall enough peak for La Tech fans and alumni?

A peak? More like a molehill.

Well, molehills have peaks, don't they? :D

I think a better analysis would also include how many bowls were being played in those respective years as opposed to today. Take the 1997 team. They finished 9-2, with a win over Alabama and Cal....and didn’t make a bowl.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

I think a better analysis would also include how many bowls were being played in those respective years as opposed to today. Take the 1997 team. They finished 9-2, with a win over Alabama and Cal....and didn’t make a bowl.

---

We finished 8-3 for 1990 Independence Bowl. Several Tech teams of the past would have made bowls in todays climate....One of our best teams in the last 10 years stayed home too.

1990 had 19 bowl games.
2001 had 21 bowl games.
2008 had 34 bowl games.
2018 has 40 bowl games.

I'm proud that we've won 4 in a row but they mean less as every year goes by. Players are now sitting out bowls.

I don't hate Holtz and don't necessarily want to see him fired. But what I do want to see is someone else calling plays on offense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogsince65

Dumbass thread wants to fire Holtz ( not to worry because they handful of posters who always post negative ) -- and run off many a BBB reader

here is reality 1990 we played in the beloved I Bowl -JRP w/l 43/52 47% w/l
2001 (11 YEARS LATER ) HUMANITARIAN BOWL -JB 45%
2008 7 years later -- I Bowl again -- Dooly 17/20 45% 17/20 bailed asap
2011 3 years later Poinsetta Bowl Dykes 22/15 59 % bailed asap

Crowton won 61% and had us in top 20= personally loved what he did for us but ignored by bowls


Holtz currently 39/22 58% 2014-Heart Dallas Bowl 2015 New Orleans Bowl 2016 Bowl 2017 Frisco bow

that's 4/8 bowls since 1990 ( did I mention we won all of them)

his first yr signed recruits included (2013) --Xavier Woods Trent Taylor -Carlos Henderson ( Dykes had a lot with recruiting before he bailed)

GUARANTEE THE SAME OLD HANDFULL OF HATERS WILL FIGURE A WAY TO RIDICULE THIS POST -- BUT BELIEVE THE REAL FAN BASE APPRECIATE WHAT HE HAS ACCOMPLISHED --

---

The most successful 4 year stretch in football since we moved up in 88'.

1 conference loss at the mid-point of the season with 5 more conference games to be played, not ready to throw in the towel yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tylerdawg

The most successful 4 year stretch in football since we moved up in 88'.

1 conference loss at the mid-point of the season with 5 more conference games to be played, not ready to throw in the towel yet.

---

Yep, we are giants among weaklings!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogsince65

Dumbass thread --

---

Well you started it out right. Down hill from there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wade_Antley

I don't hate Holtz and don't necessarily want to see him fired. But what I do want to see is someone else calling plays on offense.

---

https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.u...arrow_2b06.png THIS!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HogDawg

https://emojipedia-us.s3.dualstack.u...arrow_2b06.png THIS!!

---

Who?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wade_Antley

1990 had 19 bowl games.
2001 had 21 bowl games.
2008 had 34 bowl games.
2018 has 40 bowl games.

I'm proud that we've won 4 in a row but they mean less as every year goes by. Players are now sitting out bowls.

I don't hate Holtz and don't necessarily want to see him fired. But what I do want to see is someone else calling plays on offense.

---

There have been only 39 FBS bowl games the last two years. Don't let ESPN confuse you by including either the Celebration Bowl (FCS HBCU conferences) or the CFP final as bowl #40.

The Holtz seat is only warm in my view because of WINNING (not just showing up for) four bowls in a row. But the 2018 Holtz egg was already laid two weeks ago. Another game like that and his seat should become hot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagle2180

Who?

---

Joe or Tim

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dixonfor6

Joe or Tim

---

Yep, I bet they have zero input! Tim is the QB coach....how is that working out?

Oh my, here we go again. Still trying to prove Holtz is a good coach. Here are the 17 seasons before Holtz. Under the current bowl system, we would have went bowling at least 11 times, with 14 being a possibility. All these seasons we played a far superior schedule to what Holtz gets each of his seasons. During these 17 seasons we won conference championships and we won games against Power 5 schools. The reason Dooley and Dykes “bailed asap” was because of the job they did here at Tech. The reason Holtz is still here is because of the job he has done here at Tech and his previous history. If Holtz had coached in the 1990’s and produced the same results he would be considered a good coach, but there is nothing in his coaching career that suggests that would be the case.

1996 6-5 Crowton Bowl
1997 9-2 Crowton Bowl
1998 6-6 Crowton Bowl
1999 8-3 Bicknell Bowl
2000 3-9 Bicknell
2001 7-5 Bicknell Bowl
2002 4-8 Bicknell Bowl
2003 5-7 Bicknell Possible Bowl
2004 6-6 Bicknell Bowl
2005 7-4 Bicknell Bowl
2006 3-10 Bicknell
2007 5-7 Dooley Possible Bowl
2008 8-5 Dooley Bowl
2009 4-8 Dooley
2010 5-7 Dykes Possible Bowl
2011 8-5 Dykes Bowl
2012 9-3 Dykes Bowl

In the other thread debating Holtz’ skills or lack thereof part of the debate centered around big wins. Many feel Holtz has no big wins. Let’s look at the big wins (Power 5 or raked teams) during this period. Look at that 10 wins against Power 5 schools.

09.21.96 at Mississippi State 38-23 Crowton
10.04.97 California 41-34 Crowton
11.01.97 at Alabama 26-20 Crowton
09.18.99 at Alabama 29-28 Bicknell
11.03.01 Boise State 48-42 Bicknell
08.31.02 Oklahoma State 39-36 Bicknell
09.13.03 at Michigan State 20-19 Bicknell
11.02.04 Fresno State #17 28-21 Bicknell
12.02.05 at Fresno State #22 40-28 Bicknell
08.30.08 Mississippi State 22-14 Dooley
11.12.11 at Ole Miss 27-7 Dykes
09.22.12 at Illinois 52-24 Dykes
10.06.12 at Virginia 44-38 Dykes

There is no intelligent argument to make that Crowton, Bicknell, Dooley or Dykes wouldn’t have matched or exceeded Skips record if they were the coach during Skips years. Skip gets to coach in a conference where about a third of the teams were in the FCS or didn’t have a football program a decade ago. Skip produces mediocre results in a low-level Group of 5 conference. Of course, he loves Ruston it is the locale of his retirement job. He will never produce results that would attract a Power 5 job and with the scheduling of TMAC should never have a losing season therefore, he will always have at least a New Orleans Bowl bid. By the way, CBS Sports predicts a New Orleans Bowl against ULM this season. That’s sounds like fun, huh? Maybe we can bring back BVDV to turn down this bid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagle2180

Yep, I bet they have zero input! Tim is the QB coach....how is that working out?

---

With the remarkable play of J'Mar I am sure Tim will be the Broyles Award for assistant coach of the year. :laugh:

Can we rank this thread? :laugh:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagle2180

Yep, I bet they have zero input! Tim is the QB coach....how is that working out?

---

I think Tim could work with price or jack. J’mar is Skip’s guy. He can’t sling it like Tim wants.

You gotta think Tim was a true point guard QB. Quick reads and accurate throws. J’Mar has neither of those traits. His big plays come from running around and slinging it up for an athlete to try and make a play. We have success when we spread it out and hit quick routes and move fast. I think that’s moving too fast for J’Mar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dixonfor6

You gotta think Tim was a true point guard QB. Quick reads and accurate throws. J’Mar has neither of those traits. His big plays come from running around and slinging it up for an athlete to try and make a play. We have success when we spread it out and hit quick routes and move fast. I think that’s moving too fast for J’Mar.

---

How did J’mar end up at Tech? Who found the diamond?

When Rattay was first hired here, he was the WR coach. I'm not sure what year he was reassigned to QB coach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagle2180

How did J’mar end up at Tech? Who found the diamond?

---

Goff?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wade_Antley

1990 had 19 bowl games.
2001 had 21 bowl games.
2008 had 34 bowl games.
2018 has 40 bowl games.

I'm proud that we've won 4 in a row but they mean less as every year goes by. Players are now sitting out bowls.

I don't hate Holtz and don't necessarily want to see him fired. But what I do want to see is someone else calling plays on offense.

---

OK with that-- I am not nitpicking , just think players who sit out expect first/second round pick . gave you green dot,,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagle2180

How did J’mar end up at Tech? Who found the diamond?

---

half dozen SEC offers --dad NFL player several years and most of us recognize his talent but question why he is so inconsistent But he was serious stud coming out of HS -- probably had something to do with Baseball

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagle2180

Who?

---

Personally, I want to see Rattay. I started Tech in 97 and for me, that's the offense I want to see recreated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogsince65

half dozen SEC offers --dad NFL player several years and most of us recognize his talent but question why he is so inconsistent But he was serious stud coming out of HS -- probably had something to do with Baseball

---

We beat out 6 SEC teams to get him? Wow!

He has not played baseball in 2 years. Never really played when he was on the roster, but the results of focusing of football for two years don't seem to be paying off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dogsince65

half dozen SEC offers --dad NFL player several years and most of us recognize his talent but question why he is so inconsistent But he was serious stud coming out of HS -- probably had something to do with Baseball

---

Are you speaking of football offers for J'Mar Smith or Tua Tagovailoa? Because J'Mar was very lightly recruited out of high school. Only three offers in total, one from the SEC.

https://247sports.com/Recruitment/JM...ruitInterests/

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/f...858/jmar-smith

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospec...hool-interests

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

We beat out 6 SEC teams to get him? Wow!

He has not played baseball in 2 years. Never really played when he was on the roster, but the results of focusing of football for two years don't seem to be paying off.

---

J'Mar was lightly recruited out of high school. Only three offers in total.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagle2180

How did J’mar end up at Tech? Who found the diamond?

---

We can blame, er thank Rattay for J'Mar. So Rattay found him, recruited him and coached him. You know I have seen many folks on this very board saying they would like Rattay to be head coach. He was a great player here, but his coaching has been shall we say suspect.


https://247sports.com/Recruitment/JM...ruitInterests/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bulldog Tom

Oh my, here we go again. Still trying to prove Holtz is a good coach. Here are the 17 seasons before Holtz. Under the current bowl system, we would have went bowling at least 11 times, with 14 being a possibility. All these seasons we played a far superior schedule to what Holtz gets each of his seasons. During these 17 seasons we won conference championships and we won games against Power 5 schools. The reason Dooley and Dykes “bailed asap” was because of the job they did here at Tech. The reason Holtz is still here is because of the job he has done here at Tech and his previous history. If Holtz had coached in the 1990’s and produced the same results he would be considered a good coach, but there is nothing in his coaching career that suggests that would be the case.

1996 6-5 Crowton Bowl
1997 9-2 Crowton Bowl
1998 6-6 Crowton Bowl
1999 8-3 Bicknell Bowl
2000 3-9 Bicknell
2001 7-5 Bicknell Bowl
2002 4-8 Bicknell Bowl
2003 5-7 Bicknell Possible Bowl
2004 6-6 Bicknell Bowl
2005 7-4 Bicknell Bowl
2006 3-10 Bicknell
2007 5-7 Dooley Possible Bowl
2008 8-5 Dooley Bowl
2009 4-8 Dooley
2010 5-7 Dykes Possible Bowl
2011 8-5 Dykes Bowl
2012 9-3 Dykes Bowl

In the other thread debating Holtz’ skills or lack thereof part of the debate centered around big wins. Many feel Holtz has no big wins. Let’s look at the big wins (Power 5 or raked teams) during this period. Look at that 10 wins against Power 5 schools.

09.21.96 at Mississippi State 38-23 Crowton
10.04.97 California 41-34 Crowton
11.01.97 at Alabama 26-20 Crowton
09.18.99 at Alabama 29-28 Bicknell
11.03.01 Boise State 48-42 Bicknell
08.31.02 Oklahoma State 39-36 Bicknell
09.13.03 at Michigan State 20-19 Bicknell
11.02.04 Fresno State #17 28-21 Bicknell
12.02.05 at Fresno State #22 40-28 Bicknell
08.30.08 Mississippi State 22-14 Dooley
11.12.11 at Ole Miss 27-7 Dykes
09.22.12 at Illinois 52-24 Dykes
10.06.12 at Virginia 44-38 Dykes

There is no intelligent argument to make that Crowton, Bicknell, Dooley or Dykes wouldn’t have matched or exceeded Skips record if they were the coach during Skips years. Skip gets to coach in a conference where about a third of the teams were in the FCS or didn’t have a football program a decade ago. Skip produces mediocre results in a low-level Group of 5 conference. Of course, he loves Ruston it is the locale of his retirement job. He will never produce results that would attract a Power 5 job and with the scheduling of TMAC should never have a losing season therefore, he will always have at least a New Orleans Bowl bid. By the way, CBS Sports predicts a New Orleans Bowl against ULM this season. That’s sounds like fun, huh? Maybe we can bring back BVDV to turn down this bid.

---

Thanks for putting in the time and effort to document the “facts” about how lousy a coach Holtz really is. I think Holtz did beat Illinois in one of the bowl games. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glm47

Thanks for putting in the time and effort to document the “facts” about how lousy a coach Holtz really is. I think Holtz did beat Illinois in one of the bowl games. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

---

I write this as a truth-seeker and not as a Tech fan or Holtz fan. I did some research based on objective Sagarin Predictor ratings. It only gave me 1 of Crowton's 3 years, but here's how each coach's teams have ranked: (this factors in strength of schedule to take the subjective opinion out of the argument). A win over #52 North Texas should be considered a better win than beating #115 Ole Miss and Sagarin acknowledges that.

Crowton:
1998 - 61

Bicknell:
1999 - 35 (I give Crowton some points here because he passed off a great program to Bicknell).
2000 - 143
2001 - 79
2002 - 109
2003 - 92
2004 - 96
2005 - 94
2006 - 169

Dooley
2007 - 119 (Dooley gets credit for improving what Bick passed to him, but at least he didn't pass the 2006 team to him).
2008 - 100
2009 - 78

Dykes
2010 - 89
2011 - 39
2012 - 52

Holtz
2013 - 167 (I give a lot of blame to Dykes for handing this kind of team to Holtz)
2014 - 33
2015 - 73
2016 - 57
2017 - 93
2018 - 80 (so far)

My ranking of the coaches considering all things: (average ranking of team they inherited and left for the next guy)

1. Crowton - 51 (probably better than this, but Sagarin wasn't around his first 2 years)
2. Dykes -75
3. Holtz - 84
4. Dooley - 87
5. Bicknell - 100

My conclusion: Nobody was really lighting it up. Crowton had a great team in 97. Bicknell had a great team in 99. Dooley never had a great team. Dykes had a great team in 11 and a good team in 12. Holtz had a great team in 14 and a good team in 16. A ton of mediocrity in between those teams. Fair?

The number of bowl games is the measuring stick being used for Holtz. If bowl appearances is the measuring stick, then 6 win seasons or better is the only data needed to compare coaches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T1

I write this as a truth-seeker and not as a Tech fan or Holtz fan. I did some research based on objective Sagarin Predictor ratings. It only gave me 1 of Crowton's 3 years, but here's how each coach's teams have ranked: (this factors in strength of schedule to take the subjective opinion out of the argument). A win over #52 North Texas should be considered a better win than beating #115 Ole Miss and Sagarin acknowledges that.

Crowton:
1998 - 61

Bicknell:
1999 - 35 (I give Crowton some points here because he passed off a great program to Bicknell).
2000 - 143
2001 - 79
2002 - 109
2003 - 92
2004 - 96
2005 - 94
2006 - 169

Dooley
2007 - 119 (Dooley gets credit for improving what Bick passed to him, but at least he didn't pass the 2006 team to him).
2008 - 100
2009 - 78

Dykes
2010 - 89
2011 - 39
2012 - 52

Holtz
2013 - 167 (I give a lot of blame to Dykes for handing this kind of team to Holtz)
2014 - 33
2015 - 73
2016 - 57
2017 - 93
2018 - 80 (so far)

My ranking of the coaches considering all things: (average ranking of team they inherited and left for the next guy)

1. Crowton - 51 (probably better than this, but Sagarin wasn't around his first 2 years)
2. Dykes -75
3. Holtz - 84
4. Dooley - 87
5. Bicknell - 100

My conclusion: Nobody was really lighting it up. Crowton had a great team in 97. Bicknell had a great team in 99. Dooley never had a great team. Dykes had a great team in 11 and a good team in 12. Holtz had a great team in 14 and a good team in 16. A ton of mediocrity in between those teams. Fair?

---

So looking at 1996-2012 Tech would’ve gone to bowls 10 of 17 years, based on today’s bowl environment, including 4 straight from 1996-1999. Mediocre, yes, just like what we have now. Fair?

And do you not consider the schedules played by those other coaches? Surely you don’t think this CUSA is comparable to the WAC or to some of the schedules played by those other coaches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

The number of bowl games is the measuring stick being used for Holtz. If bowl appearances is the measuring stick, then 6 win seasons or better is the only data needed to compare coaches.

---

Here's the rank of each team and which ones went to bowl games:

33. 2014 Holtz (Bowl game)
35. 1999 Bicknell/Crowton
39. 2011 Dykes (Bowl game)
52. 2012 Dykes (turned down an invite)
57. 2016 Holtz (Bowl game)
61. 1998 Crowton
73. 2015 Holtz (Bowl game)
78. 2009 Dooley
79. 2001 Bicknell (Bowl game)
80. 2018 Holtz (It looks like another bowl game)
89. 2010 Dykes/Dooley
92. 2003 Bicknell
93. 2017 Holtz (Bowl Game)
94. 2005 Bicknell
96. 2004 Bicknell
100. 2008 Dooley (Bowl Game)
109. 2002 Bicknell
119. 2007 Dooley/Bicknell
143. 2000 Bicknell
167. 2013 Holtz/Dykes
169. 2006 Bicknell

* Crowton is the only one with a complaint, imo. Dooley was fortunate in 2008 and Holtz was fortunate last year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by glm47

Surely you don’t think this CUSA is comparable to the WAC or to some of the schedules played by those other coaches.

---

It's Sagarin Predictor Ratings. Non-biased, objective, based on strength of schedule and the final scores of the games.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T1

* Crowton is the only one with a complaint, imo. Dooley was fortunate in 2008 and Holtz was fortunate last year.

---

I understand, but again, W/L record is all that matters today. I'm not taking sub .500 possibilities into account.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

I understand, but again, W/L record is all that matters today. I'm not taking sub .500 possibilities into account.

---

Not sure I'm following. Last year was the only 6-6 team we've ever had to make a bowl game. Remove that and Holtz still has the record. Add a couple of Bick's crappy 6-6 teams and they tie? I'm missing the point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T1

Here's the rank of each team and which ones went to bowl games:

33. 2014 Holtz (Bowl game)
35. 1999 Bicknell/Crowton
39. 2011 Dykes (Bowl game)
52. 2012 Dykes (turned down an invite)
57. 2016 Holtz (Bowl game)
61. 1998 Crowton
73. 2015 Holtz (Bowl game)
78. 2009 Dooley
79. 2001 Bicknell (Bowl game)
80. 2018 Holtz (It looks like another bowl game)
89. 2010 Dykes/Dooley
92. 2003 Bicknell
93. 2017 Holtz (Bowl Game)
94. 2005 Bicknell
96. 2004 Bicknell
100. 2008 Dooley (Bowl Game)
109. 2002 Bicknell
119. 2007 Dooley/Bicknell
143. 2000 Bicknell
167. 2013 Holtz/Dykes
169. 2006 Bicknell

* Crowton is the only one with a complaint, imo. Dooley was fortunate in 2008 and Holtz was fortunate last year.

---

I would say unfortunate last year losing 3 games by one point and another in OT. Yes, you can blame Holtz for these close losses but remember, he is not in a uniform. It comes down to who are you going to hire if Holtz leaves or gets fired. With what we can pay, it will be a youngster from a smaller school or a retread head coach or an unproven assistant. These are good times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dadawgula

I would say unfortunate last year losing 3 games by one point and another in OT. Yes, you can blame Holtz for these close losses but remember, he is not in a uniform. It comes down to who are you going to hire if Holtz leaves or gets fired. With what we can pay, it will be a youngster from a smaller school or a retread head coach or an unproven assistant. These are good times.

---

I agree it could be better, and y'all should want better, but Holtz has given you 4 of the Top 10 teams since 1998 in his first 6 years here (and one team wasn't his fault, imo). I think he's building a tradition, stocking the trophy chest, and recruiting a better athlete because of it. I always wanted a coach who would stick around and try build the program with good men who can play ball. Perspective. Holtz isn't a great coach, but we haven't had a great coach in my lifetime (I wasn't around for Lambright or Aillet). If we did, he would be gone as quickly as Manny Diaz was gone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T1

Not sure I'm following. Last year was the only 6-6 team we've ever had to make a bowl game. Remove that and Holtz still has the record. Add a couple of Bick's crappy 6-6 teams and they tie? I'm missing the point.

---

This post list the bowl games that would have been under the current system with so many bowl games. Crowton = 3, Bicknell = 5, Dooley = 1, Dykes = 2, Holtz = 4
Bicknell certainly had the most difficult circumstances and schedule of all our recent coaches.

1996 6-5 Crowton Bowl
1997 9-2 Crowton Bowl
1998 6-6 Crowton Bowl
1999 8-3 Bicknell Bowl
2000 3-9 Bicknell
2001 7-5 Bicknell Bowl
2002 4-8 Bicknell Bowl
2003 5-7 Bicknell Possible Bowl
2004 6-6 Bicknell Bowl
2005 7-4 Bicknell Bowl
2006 3-10 Bicknell
2007 5-7 Dooley Possible Bowl
2008 8-5 Dooley Bowl
2009 4-8 Dooley
2010 5-7 Dykes Possible Bowl
2011 8-5 Dykes Bowl
2012 9-3 Dykes Bowl

First, UTSA sat home with 6 wins last year, so nothing is guaranteed. Second, 2002 (4-8), 2003 (5-7), 2007 (5-7), and 2010 (5-7) would not have gotten Tech into a bowl game today. Those spots go to P5 teams with big fan bases.

So Bicknell may have gotten 4 tops (but all his non-bowl teams were worse than Holtz's except for 99). Bicknell's teams were not as good as Holtz's teams. Holtz has had 3 teams already that were better than Bick's "WAC championship team."

I mis-counted Bicknell. He was only 4 with one of them being 6-6. I'll take that 6-6 team over our 6-6 team last year. Not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure Bicknell's 6-6 2004 is what got him his last contract.

BTW, T-1 are y'all driving over to be "every loyal" this weekend?;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PawDawg

BTW, T-1 are y'all driving over to be "every loyal" this weekend?;)

---

Are you kidding? It's 10 year old volleyball season around here. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T1

I write this as a truth-seeker and not as a Tech fan or Holtz fan. I did some research based on objective Sagarin Predictor ratings. It only gave me 1 of Crowton's 3 years, but here's how each coach's teams have ranked: (this factors in strength of schedule to take the subjective opinion out of the argument). A win over #52 North Texas should be considered a better win than beating #115 Ole Miss and Sagarin acknowledges that.

Crowton:
1998 - 61

Bicknell:
1999 - 35 (I give Crowton some points here because he passed off a great program to Bicknell).
2000 - 143
2001 - 79
2002 - 109
2003 - 92
2004 - 96
2005 - 94
2006 - 169

Dooley
2007 - 119 (Dooley gets credit for improving what Bick passed to him, but at least he didn't pass the 2006 team to him).
2008 - 100
2009 - 78

Dykes
2010 - 89
2011 - 39
2012 - 52

Holtz
2013 - 167 (I give a lot of blame to Dykes for handing this kind of team to Holtz)
2014 - 33
2015 - 73
2016 - 57
2017 - 93
2018 - 80 (so far)

My ranking of the coaches considering all things: (average ranking of team they inherited and left for the next guy)

1. Crowton - 51 (probably better than this, but Sagarin wasn't around his first 2 years)
2. Dykes -75
3. Holtz - 84
4. Dooley - 87
5. Bicknell - 100

My conclusion: Nobody was really lighting it up. Crowton had a great team in 97. Bicknell had a great team in 99. Dooley never had a great team. Dykes had a great team in 11 and a good team in 12. Holtz had a great team in 14 and a good team in 16. A ton of mediocrity in between those teams. Fair?

---

You call Holtz's 2014 team "great"? To me, that team will always be remembered for losing at home to FCS NSU. That loss alone should kill any thoughts of the word greatness.

Future LA Tech players should remember that their football teams can be remembered for their embarrassing losses as well as their good wins.

2013 was the fault of a having a crap coach. Dykes handed off a fine team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T1

I agree it could be better, and y'all should want better, but Holtz has given you 4 of the Top 10 teams since 1998 in his first 6 years here (and one team wasn't his fault, imo). I think he's building a tradition, stocking the trophy chest, and recruiting a better athlete because of it. I always wanted a coach who would stick around and try build the program with good men who can play ball. Perspective. Holtz isn't a great coach, but we haven't had a great coach in my lifetime (I wasn't around for Lambright or Aillet). If we did, he would be gone as quickly as Manny Diaz was gone.

---

So far, in 6 years he has zero (0) trophies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HogDawg

You call Holtz's 2014 team "great"? To me, that team will always be remembered for losing at home to FCS NSU. That loss alone should kill any thoughts of the word greatness.

Future LA Tech players should remember that their football teams can be remembered for their embarrassing losses as well as their good wins.

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Great is relative to Tech football. None of them were actually great. The 3rd best Tech team was taken to OT by Central Arkansas and blew some games like the 2017 team did (Houston, Miss St, USM). I think they were helped by all the blow out wins: they beat #83 by 28, #104 by 52, #70 by 45, and #78 by 49. It's a computer, who knows if it's right.

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Originally Posted by PawDawg

This post list the bowl games that would have been under the current system with so many bowl games. Crowton = 3, Bicknell = 5, Dooley = 1, Dykes = 2, Holtz = 4
Bicknell certainly had the most difficult circumstances and schedule of all our recent coaches.

1996 6-5 Crowton Bowl
1997 9-2 Crowton Bowl
1998 6-6 Crowton Bowl
1999 8-3 Bicknell Bowl
2000 3-9 Bicknell
2001 7-5 Bicknell Bowl
2002 4-8 Bicknell Bowl
2003 5-7 Bicknell Possible Bowl
2004 6-6 Bicknell Bowl
2005 7-4 Bicknell Bowl
2006 3-10 Bicknell
2007 5-7 Dooley Possible Bowl
2008 8-5 Dooley Bowl
2009 4-8 Dooley
2010 5-7 Dykes Possible Bowl
2011 8-5 Dykes Bowl
2012 9-3 Dykes Bowl

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It's very clear that Sonny Dykes had the best run of any of these 5 coaches, including Skip Holtz. Despite taking over a struggling football program and only being at LA Tech for 3 seasons, Dykes managed to win 22 games ( a .5946 winning percentage), a WAC football championship and he got us into the National Top 25 at least twice. Dykes also took LA Tech to perhaps its' best bowl matchup of all-time against #16 TCU in the 2011 Poinsettia Bowl. No, his Tech team didn't beat TCU that night, but they made a great showing against a very good TCU team only 1-year removed from a Rose Bowl victory.

Only Sonny Dykes and Gary Crowton gave me the confidence to really believe LA Tech could beat anyone, anywhere on just about any day. Dykes delivered P5 wins for Tech at Ole Miss, Virginia, Illinois and quality G5 wins at Houston, Fresno St and Nevada. Now THAT is a win list that LA Tech fans can be proud of. Dykes also had very close --but exciting-- losses against P5's Texas A&M (59-57), Mississippi St (26-20 in OT) and future P5, TCU (31-24).

I know a lot of LA Tech fans are still sore at Dykes for the way he left, and rightfully so. But if we could have kept Sonny for 6 yrs instead of 3, there's no telling what we could have accomplished. I guarantee you we would be settling for 6-6 regular seasons, in a watered down CUSA.

Say what you will, but Sonny Dykes played a very exciting brand of football, which was very good for LA Tech's gate attendance, and his performances enhanced our game day environment tremendously. Dykes made it FUN to go to LA Tech games. Skip Holtz doesn't even belong in this discussion.

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Originally Posted by JuBru

2013 was the fault of a having a crap coach. Dykes handed off a fine team.

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With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.

And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.

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Originally Posted by Blue Dawg

So far, in 6 years he has zero (0) trophies.

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"You" may not "like" the trophies he has, but they are flashy for the recruits:



https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.IIOby...=7&o=5&pid=1.7

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.Ae0xV...=7&o=5&pid=1.7

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.r9IZE...=7&o=5&pid=1.7

https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.BAVvC...=7&o=5&pid=1.7

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.

And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.

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I think it was poetic justice that Dykes inherited a Cal team very similar to the Tech team he left behind (they also lost 30 Seniors and ranked last in nation in returning experience)... and went 1-11 with only a 37-30 win over Portland State. I don't really want to re-hash this... I think if you look at all of Holtz's teams he's ever coached, that 2013 team was by far the worst ... and he coached some FCS teams at UConn. Same with Dykes... he's not THAT bad of a coach.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

It's very clear that Sonny Dykes had the best run of any of these 5 coaches, including Skip Holtz. Despite taking over a struggling football program and only being at LA Tech for 3 seasons, Dykes managed to win 22 games ( a .5946 winning percentage), a WAC football championship and he got us into the National Top 25 at least twice. Dykes also took LA Tech to perhaps its' best bowl matchup of all-time against #16 TCU in the 2011 Poinsettia Bowl. No, his Tech team didn't beat TCU that night, but they made a great showing against a very good TCU team only 1-year removed from a Rose Bowl victory.

Only Sonny Dykes and Gary Crowton gave me the confidence to really believe LA Tech could beat anyone, anywhere on just about any day. Dykes delivered P5 wins for Tech at Ole Miss, Virginia, Illinois and quality G5 wins at Houston, Fresno St and Nevada. Now THAT is a win list that LA Tech fans can be proud of. Dykes also had very close --but exciting-- losses against P5's Texas A&M (59-57), Mississippi St (26-20 in OT) and future P5, TCU (31-24).

I know a lot of LA Tech fans are still sore at Dykes for the way he left, and rightfully so. But if we could have kept Sonny for 6 yrs instead of 3, there's no telling what we could have accomplished. I guarantee you we would be settling for 6-6 regular seasons, in a watered down CUSA.

Say what you will, but Sonny Dykes played a very exciting brand of football, which was very good for LA Tech's gate attendance, and his performances enhanced our game day environment tremendously. Dykes made it FUN to go to LA Tech games. Skip Holtz doesn't even belong in this discussion.

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8.5 wins a year and is not worth discussing?.........WOW.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.

And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.

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I like Sonny think he's a great offensive coach, his defenses are horrific; the results "bear" this out, but maybe he will "pony" up and change his thinking and start winning again as a head coach.

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Originally Posted by tylerdawg

I like Sonny think he's a great offensive coach, his defenses are horrific; the results "bear" this out, but maybe he will "pony" up and change his thinking and start winning again as a head coach.

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I actually agree with you about Sonny's defenses. They were horrible. But when it came to "big game" coaching, Sonny was just a better big game coach than Skip, IMO. You gotta have some "gambler" in you to be a big game coach against the P5's, and Skip is not a gambler. Sonny was.

I always felt we could beat anyone when Dykes was here, especially in 2011 and 2012. One thing for sure, we could score on anyone.

I remember Kevin Sumlin after that epic battle at Indy, and he was asked by a reporter, for some SEC online site, "After giving up 57 pts tonite, aren't you concerned about your defense?" Sumlin shrugged it off, "That's Louisiana Tech, they do that to everybody they play."

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

I actually agree with you about Sonny's defenses. They were horrible. But when it came to "big game" coaching, Sonny was just a better big game coach than Skip, IMO. You gotta have some "gambler" in you to be a big game coach against the P5's, and Skip is not a gambler. Sonny was.

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What big game did Sonny win? I can only think of at Nevada in 2011 (#48) off the top of my head. His 3 P5 wins were against #133 Illinois, #84 Virginia (barely), and #110 Ole Miss. 0-7 versus teams in the Top 35 (A$M x 2, Boise St, USM, Houston, Miss St, TCU). That dude's been garbage since he left Tech.

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Originally Posted by Dixonfor6

I think Tim could work with price or jack. J’mar is Skip’s guy. He can’t sling it like Tim wants.

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J'Mar is Rattay's recruit.

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Originally Posted by T1

What big game did Sonny win? I can only think of at Nevada in 2011 (#48) off the top of my head. His 3 P5 wins were against #133 Illinois, #84 Virginia (barely), and #110 Ole Miss. 0-7 versus teams in the Top 35 (A$M x 2, Boise St, USM, Houston, Miss St, TCU). That dude's been garbage since he left Tech.

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Oh, just STOP it. If you want me to pay attention to anything you say about Skip in this discussion, bring me a P5 win over ANYBODY. I don't care if the P5 is ranked #160 or #16, just DELIVER for a change.

Skip Holtz has had one (1) P5 win (over 6-6 Illinois) in almost 6 years of coaching LA Tech. Sonny Dykes delivered 3 P5 wins in 3 years. That's one per year. Do the math.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

Oh, just STOP it. If you want me to pay attention to anything you say about Skip in this discussion, bring me a P5 win over ANYBODY. I don't care if the P5 is ranked #160 or #16, just DELIVER for a change.

Skip Holtz has had one (1) P5 win (over 6-6 Illinois) in almost 6 years of coaching LA Tech. Sonny Dykes delivered 3 P5 wins in 3 years. That's one per year. Do the math.

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He's beat plenty of teams better than those 3.

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Originally Posted by T1

I write this as a truth-seeker and not as a Tech fan or Holtz fan. I did some research based on objective Sagarin Predictor ratings. It only gave me 1 of Crowton's 3 years, but here's how each coach's teams have ranked: (this factors in strength of schedule to take the subjective opinion out of the argument). A win over #52 North Texas should be considered a better win than beating #115 Ole Miss and Sagarin acknowledges that.

Crowton:
1998 - 61

Bicknell:
1999 - 35 (I give Crowton some points here because he passed off a great program to Bicknell).
2000 - 143
2001 - 79
2002 - 109
2003 - 92
2004 - 96
2005 - 94
2006 - 169

Dooley
2007 - 119 (Dooley gets credit for improving what Bick passed to him, but at least he didn't pass the 2006 team to him).
2008 - 100
2009 - 78

Dykes
2010 - 89
2011 - 39
2012 - 52

Holtz
2013 - 167 (I give a lot of blame to Dykes for handing this kind of team to Holtz)
2014 - 33
2015 - 73
2016 - 57
2017 - 93
2018 - 80 (so far)

My ranking of the coaches considering all things: (average ranking of team they inherited and left for the next guy)

1. Crowton - 51 (probably better than this, but Sagarin wasn't around his first 2 years)
2. Dykes -75
3. Holtz - 84
4. Dooley - 87
5. Bicknell - 100

My conclusion: Nobody was really lighting it up. Crowton had a great team in 97. Bicknell had a great team in 99. Dooley never had a great team. Dykes had a great team in 11 and a good team in 12. Holtz had a great team in 14 and a good team in 16. A ton of mediocrity in between those teams. Fair?

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I agree Crowton was our best coach in this era. Bicknell probably had the worst results, but coached against a much harder schedule. I do not think he was the worst coach among this group. That honor goes to Dooley, although he seems to be enjoying a little success at Missouri, guess having an very good QB helps. Makes those Tennessee and Dallas years fade from his memory I'm sure. The issue of scheduling seems to be a problem that more than just yourself doesn't understand.

Calling the 2014 team great, they lost to Northwestern (FCS) at home and ODU (in transition from FCS), is mindblowing. Of course we did lay 76 points on Rice. And, your boy Skippy did beat a Power 5 team, of course, they also finished with a losing record. Too bad Skip laid an egg against Marshall in the championship game it would have made all of these threads irrelevant. You know that Skip seems incapable of delivering a championship or winning a truly big game.

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

Oh, just STOP it. If you want me to pay attention to anything you say about Skip in this discussion, bring me a P5 win over ANYBODY. I don't care if the P5 is ranked #160 or #16, just DELIVER for a change.

Skip Holtz has had one (1) P5 win (over 6-6 Illinois) in almost 6 years of coaching LA Tech. Sonny Dykes delivered 3 P5 wins in 3 years. That's one per year. Do the math.

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Pretty sure Holtz hasn’t played a P5 team as bad as those three teams while here.

Ill add- Outside his first year with Kansas and NC State.

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Originally Posted by glm47

So looking at 1996-2012 Tech would’ve gone to bowls 10 of 17 years, based on today’s bowl environment, including 4 straight from 1996-1999. Mediocre, yes, just like what we have now. Fair?

And do you not consider the schedules played by those other coaches? Surely you don’t think this CUSA is comparable to the WAC or to some of the schedules played by those other coaches.

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No he doesn't consider schedules. His argument is based on a "really, really, really, really smart computer programmer's program". This really smart guy downloaded years of stats into a computer, wrote a program and whamo it's like magic I'm telling you. He could probably take the ULM football team and kick Saban's Alabama team in the ass with this kind of information. I'm telling you this is great stuff. Heck you don't even have to watch the games anymore, just type a few keystrokes and you know the score before the teams even play. :icon_roll:

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Originally Posted by Tech52

Pretty sure Holtz hasn’t played a P5 team as bad as those three teams while here.

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These were all very winnable P5 games for LA Tech.

Kansas & NC State in 2013
Kansas St & Miss St in 2015
Arkansas in 2016
South Carolina in 2017

I truly believe Sonny Dykes and his powerful offense would have won at least half of these games. Skip lost 'em all.

Ok T1, this is for you. Why couldn’t Holtz deliver with a 2015 team stacked with talent? What else does he need to compete in CUSA?

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Originally Posted by HogDawg

With the advantage of hindsight, we now know that LA Tech's 2013 team was loaded with future NFL talent. But handing Holtz a team like that was equivalent to giving a 13-yr old a Ferrari to drive.

And for those that think Dykes wouldn't have had a winning record in 2013 had he stayed, you are mistaken. At his core, Dykes was (and is) a good recruiter and a builder. Dykes would have won with all that NFL talent and he would have certainly recruited other talented players as well. Remember, that offense was VERY exciting, and kids (recruits) want to go play in an offense like THAT.

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May I have your permission to have the bolded words displayed in a frame on my office wall for all to see? Giving you full credit of course. :D

Dykes and Crowton are the only “masterminds” on the list. Everyone else are managers/administrators. Skips issue is that he runs things like he’s an OC. He needs to let somebody else call the plays AND coach the special teams. I think those two things alone could right our current ship.

Someone should mail Skip a copy of Tony Franklin’s “system” dvds

I remember some here would bash him for not being clean shaven on gamedays. Lol!

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Originally Posted by Dixonfor6

Someone should mail Skip a copy of Tony Franklin’s “system” dvds

I remember some here would bash him for not being clean shaven on gamedays. Lol!

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And no socks!��

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Originally Posted by Dixonfor6

Someone should mail Skip a copy of Tony Franklin’s “system” dvds

I remember some here would bash him for not being clean shaven on gamedays. Lol!

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Come on man! You know Skip lives in 1988, it would have to be a VHS tape. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

Ok T1, this is for you. Why couldn’t Holtz deliver with a 2015 team stacked with talent? What else does he need to compete in CUSA?

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My intention wasn't to argue, but to present the objective facts because a lot of subjective disinformation was being spread and that drives me nuts. Tech fans act like we were Alabama before Holtz got here and now we're ULM because of Holtz (at least that's how I read it).

My opinion, not wanting to argue with you... is that 2015 was a good year for Tech. It was better than 1 of Crowton's teams, 8 of Bicknell's teams, all of 3 of Dooley's teams, and 1 of Dykes' teams. It was better than 3 of Holtz's teams. We did not win CUSA because we were beat twice in conference play... both the teams that beat us played in the Championship game. We lost by 3 on the road to the eventual champion in Game 2 of the season and USM blew us out at home (tough loss, but it happens all the time to every team). I'm not sure what he needs... maybe the 2014 team or the 2016 team would have won it in 2015 because they were both a little better than the 2015 team.... not knocking the 2015 team, they were damn strong too... just not strong enough.

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Originally Posted by T1

My intention wasn't to argue, but to present the objective facts because a lot of subjective disinformation was being spread and that drives me nuts. Tech fans act like we were Alabama before Holtz got here and now we're ULM because of Holtz (at least that's how I read it).

My opinion, not wanting to argue with you... is that 2015 was a good year for Tech. It was better than 1 of Crowton's teams, 8 of Bicknell's teams, all of 3 of Dooley's teams, and 1 of Dykes' teams. It was better than 3 of Holtz's teams. We did not win CUSA because we were beat twice in conference play... both the teams that beat us played in the Championship game. We lost by 3 on the road to the eventual champion in Game 2 of the season and USM blew us out at home (tough loss, but it happens all the time to every team). I'm not sure what he needs... maybe the 2014 team or the 2016 team would have won it in 2015 because they were both a little better than the 2015 team.... not knocking the 2015 team, they were damn strong too... just not strong enough.

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Dude, I ain't mad at ya :laugh: I'm honestly just trying to figure out how it is that we can have as much or more talent than anybody in CUSA and at best hope to get second place. Seems like the law of averages would take over and EVENTUALLY we would end up on top. I think a lot of the stuff you say is reasoned and well thought out, which is why I asked you. I don't agree with everything you say, but I do respect your opinion.
It seems to me like the amount of talent we are getting in Ruston is better, but the results are stagnant.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

Dude, I ain't mad at ya :laugh: I'm honestly just trying to figure out how it is that we can have as much or more talent than anybody in CUSA and at best hope to get second place. Seems like the law of averages would take over and EVENTUALLY we would end up on top. I think a lot of the stuff you say is reasoned and well thought out, which is why I asked you. I don't agree with everything you say, but I do respect your opinion.
It seems to me like the amount of talent we are getting in Ruston is better, but the results are stagnant.

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Maybe other teams have talent too? You know we weren't favored to win either of those Championship Games right? And if we would have made it in 2015, we would not have been favored to beat WKU (and they had already beaten us earlier in the year). Holtz won 2 CUSA championships at ECU. He was favored over Houston in 2009 and won, and he was the underdog at Tulsa in 2008 and won. So he has shown he can win a championship as the underdog once. I think both championship games were pretty well played... our defense was not good enough in 2016... we scored 44 points and lost by 2 TDs.... we were very similar to the 2012 team that year... awesome offense, poor defense, no conference championship.

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Originally Posted by T1

Maybe other teams have talent too? You know we weren't favored to win either of those Championship Games right? And if we would have made it in 2015, we would not have been favored to beat WKU (and they had already beaten us earlier in the year). Holtz won 2 CUSA championships at ECU. He was favored over Houston in 2009 and won, and he was the underdog at Tulsa in 2008 and won. So he has shown he can win a championship as the underdog once. I think both championship games were pretty well played... our defense was not good enough in 2016... we scored 44 points and lost by 2 TDs.... we were very similar to the 2012 team that year... awesome offense, poor defense, no conference championship.

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The reason we lost the last 2 games in 2012 was because Dykes had already checked out. And we were favored to beat Southern Miss at home in 2015 .... and got throttled. I don't think Holtz has ever mentally recovered from it. As a matter of fact, as I've pointed out before, it seems like every time we are favored when it matters, we crap the bed. At ODU in 2014, a bad ODU. A win would have put the championship game in Ruston. We lost. 2015 at home against Southern Miss playing for the West. We were favored. We got completely destroyed. And we lost to them again in 2016, a game the players should have been seething for revenge, lost against a Southern Miss team that finished 6-6.

I'm not saying that he needs to be fired. He's done some good things while he's been here. However, we have far surpassed the place were going to a bowl game is the measure of a successful season. With our schedule now, against Rice, UTSA, UTEP and a random FCS, our floor should be 7-8 wins IMHO.

1,000% agreed! Getting bowl eligible is the floor, not the ceiling! That is no accomplishment in today's CFB world. It's just avoiding being a dreg. That's especially true in the worst FBS conference in the nation. CUSA is at the bottom, it is worse than the Belch and the MAC. Not much worse...because those leagues suck too...and CUSA can lift itself above those two with just a little effort. But, for now, for 2018, CUSA is at the bottom. Making a bowl should be expected, not celebrated.

Here's a tip to keep you from being so butt hurt: Take every win as an accomplishment. Assume the other team has just as much right to winning the game as Tech does. Even UTEP or NW State can beat Tech on any given day... regardless of who is coaching the team. I think assuming you are going to win the championship every year just because they wear the State and T on their helmet, will lead you to a lot of disappointment (because Tech doesn't win many championships). Relish the wins and don't be surprised by losses. Look at the history of Tech football and tell yourself the rational truth of what it is (whatever you think it is in reality... not what you dream it should be). Know that you've seen us get beat by SFA and NW State and struggle with Grambling and Central Arkansas and NLU, and get blown out by San Jose State and UTEP and lose to SMU. I remember us giving up 600 yards rushing in Ruston one time! Every coach will tell you, "It's hard to win a game in college football." Some games are harder than others, but they are all hard. When we win a championship, we have to have the miracle of Quinton Patton pulling a player in bounds to keep the clock rolling. We have to have a pass hit a defensive lineman in the helmet and pop straight up for an interception. (Blocking the North Texas FG to win was one of those plays, but we'll see how it plays out the rest of the way). So many things happen in a football game that the coach does not control. You want a coach who gives you a chance every year. You want the rest of the league to know that Tech will be in the mix every year for the championship. You want a solid, talented team that minimizes mistakes. I think we've had a good run of coaches who do that, including Holtz... maybe especially Holtz. If he keeps taking us to championship games, we will win some. If we don't, it's just a normal year, nothing special happened this time... maybe next year! It's not as serious as most of us want to believe it is.

BS!

First, under Holtz, I NEVER assume we will win the conference championship. I actually assume just the opposite. And that is sad. Not only sad, it's not how it should be. Louisiana Tech football is not some of those others, and thankfully not. Tech has a tradition in football, winning is not just some pipe dream; we've done it before and across generations. We sit in the middle of one of the hottest recruiting regions. Louisiana and Texas are both in the top 5 in the nation for producing football players. That's consistently true every year. Tech should be good....just because!

It all depends on your desires. If getting bowl eligible is "good enough" then that's all you'll ever have. If there were just 15 bowls like there was 20-30 years ago, then yeah, reaching a bowl would be a worthwhile goal. But there are 40 bowls now. 80 out of 130 teams are guaranteed to bowl every year. But, I'm not even worried about that. WE ARE LOUISIANA TECH! we have a great football tradition. We owe it to that tradition to NEVER be satisfied....NEVER! Ya think Bama Nation is satisfied!? Do ya? My Gawd! if anyone can be allowed to rest on their laurels it's Bama! But...isn't it amazing how dedicated to winning they are every year. NEVER be satisfied....NEVER!!!

But...that's just little ole me.

Yeah, that's insanity when 9 wins and bowl wins isn't enough. (to me, but we are all different). I just ope you enjoy disappointment well. :)

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Originally Posted by T1

Yeah, that's insanity when 9 wins and bowl wins isn't enough. (to me, but we are all different). I just ope you enjoy disappointment well. :)

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Expect nothing and you’ll never be disappointed. Tell the truth, that’s your motto in life isn’t it? :D

I'll wrap this up for me (hopefully) with my subjective opinion of Holtz. I think he is a thinker, and it hurts him. I think he overthinks this game. It's the opposite of Tony Franklin. Franklin has 5 plays and runs them until you can stop them. It's all about catching the defense off guard with his pace and executing his system and it's up to you to stop it, but I'm going to stick to my system regardless of what you are doing to try to stop it. Holtz examines all this stuff... he bases his game plan on what the other team's tendencies are. He will have a different game plan every week to suit the opponent. We may try to run on UAB and throw on LSU, but that's what we are going to do. If they throw a monkey wrench into what he's seen on film all week, we are screwed (see USM in 2016, second half of ODU game, perhaps UAB this year). He observes what the defensive coordinator is doing during the game and plays chess with that. "He's in a cover 2 this series, we are going to throw crossing patterns, oh crap he moved to a cover 0, we need to throw deep, oh crap he's dropping his safeties deep, we need to run the ball." I'm not as smart as Holtz, but I like Tony's system better... do what you do best and stick with it. Our only strength on this offense this year, is our WR's... get them the ball in space somehow. Drop trying to run the ball, we can't. (I'm sure he would tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and I probably don't).

Another flaw is that he doesn't want to make a mistake to hurt the team. If he's up by 3 points with 6 minutes left, he does not want to call a play that may result in a pick 6 and the loss being his fault (and his dad calling him and telling him how dumb he was after the game). He wants to manage the game and play the odds. What sucks about that is that we usually have a terrible defense, so punting the ball with 4 minutes left usually results in a loss. He needs to remember that our defense usually sucks and maybe being aggressive here and trying to score again would be the best option. It's a tough job and there are many different approaches; his has kept him employed and going to championships and bowl games for a long time. It can be frustrating at times, but odds are, he is going to field a good team. He can be out-coached, but if he has the better players (execution), he will win almost all the time.

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Originally Posted by T1

Yeah, that's insanity when 9 wins and bowl wins isn't enough. (to me, but we are all different). I just ope you enjoy disappointment well. :)

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I don't accept said "disappointment" as the end. I, most of us, were Tech fans long before Holtz arrived, and will be long after he's gone.

So, at least you admit that 9 wins and a bowl is enough for you. Of course, I'm not surprised by that. You, and D65, and any others can set the bar wherever you wish. As you said, we are different. And, I also noted you actually agree with me, and others, that Holtz will NEVER get us more than where you've set the bar for yourself. You say it's "insanity" to expect more....with Holtz as coach. I don't agree with that....totally....just mostly. I think Holtz CAN be more successful here if he would just examine his shortcomings and do something about those. And, as I've posted many, many times I like Holtz, as a person, and as a coach. OBVIOUSLY you think even less of Holtz than I do, as you think 9 wins is his ceiling, that's it, accept it...or, as YOU say, "hope you enjoy disappointment."

Wow! you really don't think very much of Holtz.

This is T1's position for all to see: IT IS INSANITY TO THINK HOLTZ CAN WIN A CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP, TO WIN 10 GAMES, AND OMG! EVER FINISH RANKED IN THE TOP 25!

For the record, I think Holtz can accomplish some, or all, of those goals, with just a little redirection in his coaching approach.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

Expect nothing and you’ll never be disappointed. Tell the truth, that’s your motto in life isn’t it? :D

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Kind of.... It's becoming that way. There's more peace in my life with that motto. I guess it depends on what you value. If you value winning over peace, you will never be satisfied with "good." If you value peace over winning, you can be content in all things. I'm getting old enough to value peace at this point in my life. (and Jesus Christ has given me that revelation).. he never disappoints me. Tech will rip your heart out and make you kick your puppy and beat your wife. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by T1

Kind of.... It's becoming that way. There's more peace in my life with that motto. I guess it depends on what you value. If you value winning over peace, you will never be satisfied with "good." If you value peace over winning, you can be content in all things. I'm getting old enough to value peace at this point in my life. (and Jesus Christ has given me that revelation).. he never disappoints me. Tech will rip your heart out and make you kick your puppy and beat your wife. :laugh:

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It doesn’t disappoint me nearly like it used to. I dropped the Cubs after the 2003 debacle and swore I’d never watch them again, and in doing so, I totally missed out on the excitement of them winning it all. I nearly had a stroke over something I couldn’t control. Plus I lost a perfectly good tv :bomb: I won’t lie, I was equally as pissed about the 2015 Southern Miss game. Thank God I was there, because I couldn’t afford to lose another TV :D. Now that I know how Holtz is, I don’t get nearly as mad. I KNOW if somehow the West is on the line when we go to Hattiesburg, we will lose. You can bank on that, but I don’t think the West will be in play so nothing to worry about.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

It doesn’t disappoint me nearly like it used to. I dropped the Cubs after the 2003 debacle and swore I’d never watch them again, and in doing so, I totally missed out on the excitement of them winning it all. I nearly had a stroke over something I couldn’t control. Plus I lost a perfectly good tv :bomb: I won’t lie, I was equally as pissed about the 2015 Southern Miss game. Thank God I was there, because I couldn’t afford to lose another TV :D. Now that I know how Holtz is, I don’t get nearly as mad. I KNOW if somehow the West is on the line when we go to Hattiesburg, we will lose. You can bank on that, but I don’t think the West will be in play so nothing to worry about.

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Here's how I'm approaching it now: I'm not on this team. I will not let it affect my life. I hope they do well. Against UTEP today, I'm expecting a sloppy Tech win... probably 24-17, or something like that. I know that a tough game like that can go either way if we make more mistakes than they do... it happens every week in college football. NOW... if Tech wins 52-0, I'm thinking, "Wow, that was a great game; they exceeded my expectations! I'm happy with that." But if my frame of mind is that Tech should beat UTEP 52-0 and they barely win a tough game 24-17, I'm probably pissed and thinking Holtz sucks and J'Mar sucks, etc... and I'm pissed until Tuesday and not being a good father, husband, and employee because this stupid game affected my life.

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Originally Posted by dawg80

BS!

First, under Holtz, I NEVER assume we will win the conference championship. I actually assume just the opposite. And that is sad. Not only sad, it's not how it should be. Louisiana Tech football is not some of those others, and thankfully not. Tech has a tradition in football, winning is not just some pipe dream; we've done it before and across generations. We sit in the middle of one of the hottest recruiting regions. Louisiana and Texas are both in the top 5 in the nation for producing football players. That's consistently true every year. Tech should be good....just because!

It all depends on your desires. If getting bowl eligible is "good enough" then that's all you'll ever have. If there were just 15 bowls like there was 20-30 years ago, then yeah, reaching a bowl would be a worthwhile goal. But there are 40 bowls now. 80 out of 130 teams are guaranteed to bowl every year. But, I'm not even worried about that. WE ARE LOUISIANA TECH! we have a great football tradition. We owe it to that tradition to NEVER be satisfied....NEVER! Ya think Bama Nation is satisfied!? Do ya? My Gawd! if anyone can be allowed to rest on their laurels it's Bama! But...isn't it amazing how dedicated to winning they are every year. NEVER be satisfied....NEVER!!!

But...that's just little ole me.

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Dawg80, your reputation precedes you. You were demanding that Holtz be fired four games into his first season. You haven't relented since. To you, the glass is always half empty. If Holtz went undefeated one season, you would find something to complain about. It appears that you are one of those people that are happy only when you criticize, condemn or complain. Have you ever considered reading The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale?

The thing I like most about Skip is there have been no big scandals regarding his players. Either he is doing an outstanding job of recruiting young men of character, or he is doing a good job of convincing them to behave while on his team. Perhaps it is some of both. I also hope that he is inspiring his players to perform in the classroom. Wins are always welcome, but I hope Skip is helping the young men to prepare themselves for the reality of life after football.

Now, the thing that I like least about Skip is that he insists on calling the offensive plays. The coaches on the field have some of the worst seats in the house. Our university president and athletic director spent $22-million on a new press box. Skip should let an offensive coordinator use it to his maximum benefit. It sure as heck did nothing to improve my game-day experience.

Dawg80, your reputation precedes you. You were demanding that Holtz be fired four games into his first season.

Really? I don't deny it, just don't remember that. Is there a link? I do remember when the USF fans appeared on this board warning us about Holtz, I took a neutral position. I thanked them for their concern but said we'd like to see for ourselves, as I have mentioned many times, Tech Football was born to WIN! I do remember that. But...what were the first 4 games like in 2013? Probably not very good. I will look it up.

Fact is, even you dyed-in-the-wool Holtz apologists agree with me...and the others with the same opinion. You do! I read between the lines in y'alls posts. You know we are right, but you find it comforting to be PC about it. I am not PC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawg80

BS!

First, under Holtz, I NEVER assume we will win the conference championship. I actually assume just the opposite. And that is sad. Not only sad, it's not how it should be. Louisiana Tech football is not some of those others, and thankfully not. Tech has a tradition in football, winning is not just some pipe dream; we've done it before and across generations. We sit in the middle of one of the hottest recruiting regions. Louisiana and Texas are both in the top 5 in the nation for producing football players. That's consistently true every year. Tech should be good....just because!

It all depends on your desires. If getting bowl eligible is "good enough" then that's all you'll ever have. If there were just 15 bowls like there was 20-30 years ago, then yeah, reaching a bowl would be a worthwhile goal. But there are 40 bowls now. 80 out of 130 teams are guaranteed to bowl every year. But, I'm not even worried about that. WE ARE LOUISIANA TECH! we have a great football tradition. We owe it to that tradition to NEVER be satisfied....NEVER! Ya think Bama Nation is satisfied!? Do ya? My Gawd! if anyone can be allowed to rest on their laurels it's Bama! But...isn't it amazing how dedicated to winning they are every year. NEVER be satisfied....NEVER!!!

But...that's just little ole me.

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A couple of corrections and examples if you will.

You better not assume we win the FCS game under Holtz.
We do not sit in one of the hottest regions, we sit in the middle of the hottest region for recruiting.


Nick Saban does not let anyone associated with the Alabama program ever feel satisfied about anything.

One of Saban's talking points before the Arkansas game? Students not showing up. Said our players work too hard for that. If you aren't coming do not get tickets, we have people waiting for tickets. We should fill every seat. I do not let my players feel entitled and our students should not be allowed to either; this will and is being addressed.

One of Saban's talking points after the Arkansas game? Talking about Arkansas scoring 31 points, saying that was his responsibility and his coaches' responsibility to teach the players better and we will do so moving forward. He spent more time on that than his team scoring 65 points. Point is Saban is never satisfied. Even after winning national championships he says yeah this is great, tomorrow morning me and our coaches will start working to win another one next year. No doubt he is the biggest reason for Bama's current success. I think he is the best college football coach ever and is on a very short list of best coaches period, any sport, any level of competition. With regards to winning, that is.

First 4 games under Holtz:

Routed by NC State
Lackluster win over Lamar
WTF loss to Tulane
even bigger WTF loss to Kansas

1-3, really 0-3 since FCS shouldn't count.

Nah, I see nothing but great things in those results. Anyone should've been happy at that point...:icon_roll:

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Originally Posted by sharky

Dawg80, your reputation precedes you. You were demanding that Holtz be fired four games into his first season. You haven't relented since. To you, the glass is always half empty. If Holtz went undefeated one season, you would find something to complain about. It appears that you are one of those people that are happy only when you criticize, condemn or complain. Have you ever considered reading The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale?

The thing I like most about Skip is there have been no big scandals regarding his players. Either he is doing an outstanding job of recruiting young men of character, or he is doing a good job of convincing them to behave while on his team. Perhaps it is some of both. I also hope that he is inspiring his players to perform in the classroom. Wins are always welcome, but I hope Skip is helping the young men to prepare themselves for the reality of life after football.

Now, the thing that I like least about Skip is that he insists on calling the offensive plays. The coaches on the field have some of the worst seats in the house. Our university president and athletic director spent $22-million on a new press box. Skip should let an offensive coordinator use it to his maximum benefit. It sure as heck did nothing to improve my game-day experience.

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Great points pro and con. No scandals, word is his players love him, and seems I heard Tech players' graduation rate is very good. I'm sure this is high on the list of "have to haves" with the key Ruston decision makers. And while we don't know every factor that went into Jaylon Ferguson's decision to put off the NFL dollars to come back, it says a lot of the bond that is a reality within the locker room.

Including T1's excellent analysis regarding Holtz thinking too much, Holtz admitted this in a press conference after the UAB debacle. I just hope that part of the course correction is to allow a young gun gunslinger to start calling plays. He can still manage the game, manage it even better IMO. Are you reading this Skip??

Honestly, all Skip needs to do is schedule a Google Hangouts/Facebook Live session ONE TIME with the LouisianaTechBBB crew here and we will give him the master game plan, right? :) Yeah, you right.

It's game day brothers. See you all on ESPN+. GO DAWGS!

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Originally Posted by T1

I'll wrap this up for me (hopefully) with my subjective opinion of Holtz. I think he is a thinker, and it hurts him. I think he overthinks this game. It's the opposite of Tony Franklin. Franklin has 5 plays and runs them until you can stop them. It's all about catching the defense off guard with his pace and executing his system and it's up to you to stop it, but I'm going to stick to my system regardless of what you are doing to try to stop it. Holtz examines all this stuff... he bases his game plan on what the other team's tendencies are. He will have a different game plan every week to suit the opponent. We may try to run on UAB and throw on LSU, but that's what we are going to do. If they throw a monkey wrench into what he's seen on film all week, we are screwed (see USM in 2016, second half of ODU game, perhaps UAB this year). He observes what the defensive coordinator is doing during the game and plays chess with that. "He's in a cover 2 this series, we are going to throw crossing patterns, oh crap he moved to a cover 0, we need to throw deep, oh crap he's dropping his safeties deep, we need to run the ball." I'm not as smart as Holtz, but I like Tony's system better... do what you do best and stick with it. Our only strength on this offense this year, is our WR's... get them the ball in space somehow. Drop trying to run the ball, we can't. (I'm sure he would tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and I probably don't).

Another flaw is that he doesn't want to make a mistake to hurt the team. If he's up by 3 points with 6 minutes left, he does not want to call a play that may result in a pick 6 and the loss being his fault (and his dad calling him and telling him how dumb he was after the game). He wants to manage the game and play the odds. What sucks about that is that we usually have a terrible defense, so punting the ball with 4 minutes left usually results in a loss. He needs to remember that our defense usually sucks and maybe being aggressive here and trying to score again would be the best option. It's a tough job and there are many different approaches; his has kept him employed and going to championships and bowl games for a long time. It can be frustrating at times, but odds are, he is going to field a good team. He can be out-coached, but if he has the better players (execution), he will win almost all the time.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawg80

First 4 games under Holtz:

Routed by NC State
Lackluster win over Lamar
WTF loss to Tulane
even bigger WTF loss to Kansas

1-3, really 0-3 since FCS shouldn't count.

Nah, I see nothing but great things in those results. Anyone should've been happy at that point...:icon_roll:

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Your reputation has been cast in concrete. You are the poster-boy for the C3 mindset. Critize-Condemn-Complain. Perhaps you expect Tech to consistently win the money games. If so, how can you be so negative almost all the time, yet be so optimistic when we play the power 5 schools?

Please try to focus on the fact that Tech football has been much better under Holtz than prior to his arrival.°

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Originally Posted by sharky

Your reputation has been cast in concrete. You are the poster-boy for the C3 mindset. Critize-Condemn-Complain. Perhaps you expect Tech to consistently win the money games. If so, how can you be so negative almost all the time, yet be so optimistic when we play the power 5 schools?

Please try to focus on the fact that Tech football has been much better under Holtz than prior to his arrival.°

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Say what

We are building something special here in Ruston.

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Originally Posted by T1

Here's how I'm approaching it now: I'm not on this team. I will not let it affect my life. I hope they do well. Against UTEP today, I'm expecting a sloppy Tech win... probably 24-17, or something like that. I know that a tough game like that can go either way if we make more mistakes than they do... it happens every week in college football. NOW... if Tech wins 52-0, I'm thinking, "Wow, that was a great game; they exceeded my expectations! I'm happy with that." But if my frame of mind is that Tech should beat UTEP 52-0 and they barely win a tough game 24-17, I'm probably pissed and thinking Holtz sucks and J'Mar sucks, etc... and I'm pissed until Tuesday and not being a good father, husband, and employee because this stupid game affected my life.

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See? I'm a happy guy. 5-2 baby! 😀

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Originally Posted by T1

See? I'm a happy guy. 5-2 baby! 😀

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COMPETE!! How do you think we were able to contain their QB? I honestly think Jones had his coming out party, and NFL scouts are taking notice.

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Originally Posted by SicemDawgz

COMPETE!! How do you think we were able to contain their QB? I honestly think Jones had his coming out party, and NFL scouts are taking notice.

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I took last season off and didn't see a play. I've followed the team this year. The obvious problem is at QB. A good QB would have put 35 points up by halftime in this game. He's killing this team. Otherwise, this is a good team.... but we can't run the ball, which makes the QB problem that much greater. I want to see what the backup can do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T1

I took last season off and didn't see a play. I've followed the team this year. The obvious problem is at QB. A good QB would have put 35 points up by halftime in this game. He's killing this team. Otherwise, this is a good team.... but we can't run the ball, which makes the QB problem that much greater. I want to see what the backup can do.

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you are just about a year late to the party

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Originally Posted by latech

you are just about a year late to the party

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Sometimes Sophomores get better in their Junior year. I thought he had a good first 4 games this year. He has sucked in the last 3. Terrible!

On the “trick play” that Smith scored on, my wife said “why is he turning around and talking smack? Just score!!” Nah babe, he was looking over his shoulder to see if he needed to slide or not.