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HB199 Pulled From Consideration
HB199 which would authorize the carrying of concealed handguns by non-law enforcement individuals on campus was pulled from consideration by it's author. The bill faced overwhelming opposition by University Chiefs of Police, University Police Officers, University Administrators, Students and Parents.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Wow, I can't believe such a bill even got that far. Do crack dealers now have lobbyists or something?
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Ever busted anyone for accidentally leaving their shotgun in their on-campus parked truck during duck season, DF? What's the punishment for that?
Curious because I pass by a ton of trucks in the gravel lots with gun cases in the back seat in the Fall. Is this one of those things that's just kind of swept under the rug?
Not that I mind. Crazy-ass gun-toting good ol' boys make me feel safer. I'm glad I'm on THEIR side.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
HB199 which would authorize the carrying of concealed handguns by non-law enforcement individuals was pulled from consideration by it's author. The bill faced overwhelming opposition by University Chiefs of Police, University Police Officers, University Administrators, Students and Parents.
I'm confused. Currently, a person can get a permit to carry a concealed handgun even if they are non-law enforcement individuals isn't that correct? Would this bill have done away with the provision of having to get a permit? If so, it's a good thing, I think, that it was pulled.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Luminaire
Ever busted anyone for accidentally leaving their shotgun in their on-campus parked truck during duck season, DF? What's the punishment for that?
Curious because I pass by a ton of trucks in the gravel lots with gun cases in the back seat in the Fall. Is this one of those things that's just kind of swept under the rug?
Not that I mind. Crazy-ass gun-toting good ol' boys make me feel safer. I'm glad I'm on THEIR side.
Shotguns and Hunting rifles in pick-up trucks are not a problem as long as they remain in the vehicle. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. If you pull that shotgun out on a parking lot and wave it around, that would be a problem. There is nothing to sweep under the rug in this instance
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
Shotguns and Hunting rifles in pick-up trucks are not a problem as long as they remain in the vehicle. Your vehicle is an extension of your home. If you pull that shotgun out on a parking lot and wave it around, that would be a problem. There is nothing to sweep under the rug in this instance
Cool. Figured that but wasn't sure if the 'extension of your home' deal worked on a university campus or not.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dirtydawg
I'm confused. Currently, a person can get a permit to carry a concealed handgun even if they are non-law enforcement individuals isn't that correct? Would this bill have done away with the provision of having to get a permit? If so, it's a good thing, I think, that it was pulled.
HB199 would have allowed people with concealed handgun permits to carry their guns concealed on their person anywhere on a campus. This would have included classrooms. Currently, handguns are not allowed anywhere on campus, concealed or not even if you have a concealed carry permit. Law Enforcement is obviously excluded. It would have created an extremely complicated scenario for officers responding to a report of a shooter. How would you determine who was the bad guy and who was a good guy with a gun? Innocent people could accidentally be mistaken for bad guys.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
HB199 would have allowed people with concealed handgun permits to carry their guns concealed on their person anywhere on a campus. This would have included classrooms. Currently, handguns are not allowed anywhere on campus, concealed or not even if you have a concealed carry permit. Law Enforcement is obviously excluded. It would have created an extremely complicated scenario for officers responding to a report of a shooter. How would you determine who was the bad guy and who was a good guy with a gun? Innocent people could accidentally be mistaken for bad guys.
You're right. Don't need to make things anymore complicated than they already are. Even though you guys piss me off sometimes (needless arrogant attitudes by some), I respect the jobs you do and anything that can make it more safe for you guys consider my support. You can add firefighters and EMS in as well.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
HB199 would have allowed people with concealed handgun permits to carry their guns concealed on their person anywhere on a campus. This would have included classrooms. Currently, handguns are not allowed anywhere on campus, concealed or not even if you have a concealed carry permit. Law Enforcement is obviously excluded. It would have created an extremely complicated scenario for officers responding to a report of a shooter. How would you determine who was the bad guy and who was a good guy with a gun? Innocent people could accidentally be mistaken for bad guys.
Obviously, there is another side to that logic. Since it's known that concealed carry is illegal on the college scene, that makes it a prime target to go postal like Virginia Tech. While I understand it could create an extremely complicated scenario for officers, it might potentially also save lives. Leaving the responsibility of personal protection to someone else, no matter how well trained they are, seems like a bad idea.
I guess the best comparison would be to compare the success of suicidal mass murders in locations where CC is illegal to those where CC is legal. That's especially difficult since schools have other advantages for suicidal mass murderings.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abominable Gorilla
Obviously, there is another side to that logic. Since it's known that concealed carry is illegal on the college scene, that makes it a prime target to go postal like Virginia Tech. While I understand it could create an extremely complicated scenario for officers, it might potentially also save lives. Leaving the responsibility of personal protection to someone else, no matter how well trained they are, seems like a bad idea.
I guess the best comparison would be to compare the success of suicidal mass murders in locations where CC is illegal to those where CC is legal. That's especially difficult since schools have other advantages for suicidal mass murderings.
Im not going to discuss tactics, but please allow me to say this. When the Police arrive on scene, there is going to be a dynamic response. During that dynamic response, the Police have one Primary goal. Stop the shooter. We are bringing weapons and training that a CC permitted person simply does not possess. If a CC permitted student is shooting, he/she is going to be engaged by police. We don't want that to happen. It would be far too easy for someone to accidentally be shot by mistake.
There is absolutely no guarantee that a CC Permitted student is capable of stopping a person intent on mass murder. Statistics prove these individuals are well armed and motivated to kill as many people as possible. No class for CC carry even breeches how to confront a motivated shooter. CC permitted students would only add to the confusion and chaos of an active shooter situation. It simply isn't worth the risk. Police spend hours upon hours training. I have been to two active shooter schools and numerous active shooter training sessions where we actually engage an active shooter. In every scenario, the active shooter is taken out, and officers are wounded. Instructors determine if a wound is fatal. Officers "Die" even with the advanced training and tactics. A CC permitted student would not stand a chance.
'
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CARTEK
Yawn
If you think VA Tech can't happen at LA Tech... Yawn all you like.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Lets say it does happen, how long will it take for the police to get there? Do they still surround and contain the situation before moving in? That could take precious minutes.
Im asking because I do not know.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
Im not going to discuss tactics, but please allow me to say this. When the Police arrive on scene, there is going to be a dynamic response. During that dynamic response, the Police have one Primary goal. Stop the shooter. We are bringing weapons and training that a CC permitted person simply does not possess. If a CC permitted student is shooting, he/she is going to be engaged by police. We don't want that to happen. It would be far too easy for someone to accidentally be shot by mistake.
There is absolutely no guarantee that a CC Permitted student is capable of stopping a person intent on mass murder. Statistics prove these individuals are well armed and motivated to kill as many people as possible. No class for CC carry even breeches how to confront a motivated shooter. CC permitted students would only add to the confusion and chaos of an active shooter situation. It simply isn't worth the risk. Police spend hours upon hours training. I have been to two active shooter schools and numerous active shooter training sessions where we actually engage an active shooter. In every scenario, the active shooter is taken out, and officers are wounded. Instructors determine if a wound is fatal. Officers "Die" even with the advanced training and tactics. A CC permitted student would not stand a chance.
'
I totally, totally agree with your logic without agreeing with your conclusion. I think where we might disagree is what the above means. In a situation where a mass shooting occurs, I'd rather have the chance to defend myself than only the ability to rely on the police even at the risk of the police engaging me.
JMHO, but the point of CC is NOT to stop or confront a person intent on mass murder. The point is to be able to defend yourself and retreat from the situation (which is different than the situation you are mentioning above).
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
If you think VA Tech can't happen at LA Tech... Yawn all you like.
It won't happen in Dr. Blackstock's class because he locks the door.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abominable Gorilla
I totally, totally agree with your logic without agreeing with your conclusion. I think where we might disagree is what the above means. In a situation where a mass shooting occurs, I'd rather have the chance to defend myself than only the ability to rely on the police even at the risk of the police engaging me.
JMHO, but the point of CC is NOT to stop or confront a person intent on mass murder. The point is to be able to defend yourself and retreat from the situation (which is different than the situation you are mentioning above).
One topic that most people don't bring up while they debate CC on college campuses is how allowing concealed carry permit holders to carry handguns on campus could protect students from more ordinary crimes other than mass shootings/murders. While the odds of being involved in a mass shooting on a college campus is still low (even in today's environment), students (especially females) have to worry about being attacked, assaulted, or raped while on campus. Students with CC permits would have another way to protect themselves in case the police can't get there in time to help.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
louisiana_dog
Lets say it does happen, how long will it take for the police to get there? Do they still surround and contain the situation before moving in? That could take precious minutes.
Im asking because I do not know.
If an active shooter is reported on the Tech campus, Tech Police, Ruston Police and LPSO are going to swarm the campus. There will be no "surround and contain". First responding officers are going to form contact teams and immediately go in after the shooter. The response will be dynamic. Officers are training hours upon hours in "active shooter" scenarios. Priority one is stop the shooter. Police are going in to stop the shooting...not negotiate a surrender. Our goal is save as many lives as possible. Tech Officers are carrying new equipment that was unavailable before. (Patrol Rifles for instance) Each shift has at least one patrol rifle qualified officer with a rifle. (I happen to be one) If a shooter opens up on campus, it is likely there will be casualties. We will do our very best to stop a shooter as fast as we can to limit those casualties.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Juice752
It won't happen in Dr. Blackstock's class because he locks the door.
What if the shooting starts in the classroom?
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
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Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
What if the shooting starts in the classroom?
We are screwed.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
If you think VA Tech can't happen at LA Tech... Yawn all you like.
I'm yawning at your self-important, ranting bullshit. Your post pretty much confirms that you have some goober-like tendencies.
Yo-yos like the guy at VATech expect police to arrive with guns; they do not expect Suzie or Bobby Tom to pull a 9mm from a backpack and empty 15 rounds in their chest. To avoid being shot by you, they then return their weapon to the backpack or just lay the damned thing down!
Of course, they could wait for 30 minutes like they did at VATech for the police to get to where the shooter was. This is not a swipe at the police; it takes time to locate a shooter on a big campus. I prefer not to wait, and I suspect that the families of those killed at VATech wish there had been a "lawbreaker" amongst the students...a "lawbreaker" with a licensed 9mm in their packpack.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
If an active shooter is reported on the Tech campus, Tech Police, Ruston Police and LPSO are going to swarm the campus. There will be no "surround and contain". First responding officers are going to form contact teams and immediately go in after the shooter. The response will be dynamic. Officers are training hours upon hours in "active shooter" scenarios. Priority one is stop the shooter. Police are going in to stop the shooting...not negotiate a surrender. Our goal is save as many lives as possible. Tech Officers are carrying new equipment that was unavailable before. (Patrol Rifles for instance) Each shift has at least one patrol rifle qualified officer with a rifle. (I happen to be one) If a shooter opens up on campus, it is likely there will be casualties. We will do our very best to stop a shooter as fast as we can to limit those casualties.
I have every confidence you want to and will eventually stop him...but you have to FIND him! Locating an active, moving shooter could take 10...15...30 minutes! If both Suzie and Bobby Tom are carrying, the shooter could be down much sooner.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TechAlum05
One topic that most people don't bring up while they debate CC on college campuses is how allowing concealed carry permit holders to carry handguns on campus could protect students from more ordinary crimes other than mass shootings/murders. While the odds of being involved in a mass shooting on a college campus is still low (even in today's environment), students (especially females) have to worry about being attacked, assaulted, or raped while on campus. Students with CC permits would have another way to protect themselves in case the police can't get there in time to help.
Bingo!
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Speaking of Ranting Bullshit... Yawn!
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
Speaking of Ranting Bullshit... Yawn!
You confimed my point...you are a goober, one that can't legitimately defend his position.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
I'm glad HB199 was pulled. If students/parents/law_enforcement/school_officials overwhelmingly did not feel comfortable with allowing concealed weapons on campus, then it's a good thing this bill got booted out.
If I was a Tech student again...I wouldn't feel more safe knowing that I have fellow classmates carrying a firearm.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
HB199 which would authorize the carrying of concealed handguns by non-law enforcement individuals on campus was pulled from consideration by it's author. The bill faced overwhelming opposition by University Chiefs of Police, University Police Officers, University Administrators, Students and Parents.
You neglected to include the Brady Campaign...the anti-gun folks.
If you had taken the time to go and research the bill and the opposition, the opposition was from the ULS presidents and their employees (chiefs of police and officers...think Steve Quinnelly) plus the SGA presidents from each institution. There was no great outpouring from students or parents unless the Democrat members of the House (all of whom recieved a donation from the Brady Campaign) count on the parent's list!
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CARTEK
You confimed my point...you are a goober, one that can't legitimately defend his position.
You are just a mouth spouting off about something you have no clue about. How many active shooter classes have you attended? How many active shooter training scenarios have you completed? How many cases of active shooters have you studied? How many states have taken the same stand as Louisiana and voted against concealed carry on college campuses?
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CARTEK
You neglected to include the Brady Campaign...the anti-gun folks.
If you had taken the time to go and research the bill and the opposition, the opposition was from the ULS presidents and their employees (chiefs of police and officers...think Steve Quinnelly) plus the SGA presidents from each institution. There was no great outpouring from students or parents unless the Democrat members of the House (all of whom recieved a donation from the Brady Campaign) count on the parent's list!
Steve Quinnelly is NOT the Chief anymore. He was replaced after Va. Tech. Just goes to prove your arguments are uninformed.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
Steve Quinnelly is NOT the Chief anymore. He was replaced after Va. Tech. Just goes to prove your arguments are uninformed.
How long was he chief? That's the point!
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
You are just a mouth spouting off about something you have no clue about. How many active shooter classes have you attended? How many active shooter training scenarios have you completed? How many cases of active shooters have you studied? How many states have taken the same stand as Louisiana and voted against concealed carry on college campuses?
Just because other states have "done the same thing" doesn't make it right, does it? I guess that means that Louisiana should fall in line behind California and Vermont endorsing marriage between Bob and Bruce!
As far as studying active shooters, I hope you have studied hours, nay days, more than I have but it doesn't change the argument that it will take precious time for you to respond and identify a shooter. Bobby Tom can do it a whole lot faster.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CARTEK
As far as studying active shooters, I hope you have studied hours, nay days, more than I have but it doesn't change the argument that it will take precious time for you to respond and identify a shooter. Bobby Tom can do it a whole lot faster.
You can't guarantee that a student packing heat will be one step closer than a police officer. Nobody knows where or when these events are going to happen. That's a lame excuse for an argument.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
You can't guarantee that a student packing heat will be one step closer than a police officer. Nobody knows where or when these events are going to happen. That's a lame excuse for an argument.
Ok, that's an inaccurate statement.
Are TECH police roaming the halls?
I think not.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
Ok, that's an inaccurate statement.
Are TECH police roaming the halls?
I think not.
Not necessarily inaccurate - a shooter who pops up in an FCS or PE class would probably have a better chance of facing unarmed students (with or without available legal permission) than, say, the forestry department, right? Not all students would carry even if they could.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
inudesu
Not necessarily inaccurate - a shooter who pops up in an FCS or PE class would probably have a better chance of facing unarmed students (with or without available legal permission) than, say, the forestry department, right? Not all students would carry even if they could.
Are the police officers located in the gym?
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
Are the police officers located in the gym?
I doubt it. But if no one in the gym has a gun, then the next (sane) person to show up at the gym with a gun is probably going to be a police officer.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Alright, maybe we should ask the question differently.
If you were stuck in the same room with an active shooter and he was between you and the door, you're thinking...
A) I'm glad the police will be here quickly.
B) I wish I had some means to defend myself.
If there are any other options left out, please let me know.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
inudesu
I doubt it. But if no one in the gym has a gun, then the next (sane) person to show up at the gym with a gun is probably going to be a police officer.
The guy taking a dump in the locker room can get to his registered handgun quicker than the police can respond.
Universitities should encourage students to obtain concealed weapons permits.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
The guy taking a dump in the locker room can get to his registered handgun quicker than the police can respond.
Universitities should encourage students to obtain concealed weapons permits.
IF he has one. I'm not arguing it is not faster for someone already in location to shoot than a cop around the corner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
You can't guarantee that a student packing heat will be one step closer than a police officer. Nobody knows where or when these events are going to happen. That's a lame excuse for an argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
Ok, that's an inaccurate statement.
Are TECH police roaming the halls?
I think not.
I'm not sure if it is good for concealed guns to be allowed on campuses or not (leaning towards not), but all I'm saying is that his argument stands.
Not all students will carry, so you can't guarantee that a student will be closer than a police officer.
Totally accurate statement.
That's all I am trying to say.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abominable Gorilla
Alright, maybe we should ask the question differently.
If you were stuck in the same room with an active shooter and he was between you and the door, you're thinking...
A) I'm glad the police will be here quickly.
B) I wish I had some means to defend myself.
If there are any other options left out, please let me know.
C) I hope they don't check my underwear.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
Ok, that's an inaccurate statement.
Are TECH police roaming the halls?
I think not.
No. They're giving tickets to people unloading in a handicapped zone.:D
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Why do you think active shooters choose college campuses, high schools, churches, and hospitals for their activities?
The only reason is because they are target rich areas that are GUN FREE zones, which makes it much easier for them to shoot actively!
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
I tried to get a concealed carry permit once, but I got a note that there was a little problem holding it up.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dirtydawg
No. They're giving tickets to people unloading in a handicapped zone.:D
Ah. You beat me to it.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dirtydawg
No. They're giving tickets to people unloading in a handicapped zone.:D
Yea, that's all I do all day...watch the U.P. handicapped zones.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
Yea, that's all I do all day...watch the U.P. handicapped zones.
You should be hanging out at the Nat. on these bright, sunny days.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
You should be hanging out at the Nat. on these bright, sunny days.
I make my rounds on Patrol :D
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
You should be hanging out at the Nat. on these bright, sunny days.
To be back in school....:bigcry:
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abominable Gorilla
Alright, maybe we should ask the question differently.
If you were stuck in the same room with an active shooter and he was between you and the door, you're thinking...
A) I'm glad the police will be here quickly.
B) I wish I had some means to defend myself.
If there are any other options left out, please let me know.
D) (Liberals only) I wish I could talk to the shooter so I can better understand his feelings. Then I could learn to become more tolerant and accepting of his violent behavior.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
If an active shooter is reported on the Tech campus, Tech Police, Ruston Police and LPSO are going to swarm the campus. There will be no "surround and contain". First responding officers are going to form contact teams and immediately go in after the shooter. The response will be dynamic. Officers are training hours upon hours in "active shooter" scenarios. Priority one is stop the shooter. Police are going in to stop the shooting...not negotiate a surrender. Our goal is save as many lives as possible. Tech Officers are carrying new equipment that was unavailable before. (Patrol Rifles for instance) Each shift has at least one patrol rifle qualified officer with a rifle. (I happen to be one) If a shooter opens up on campus, it is likely there will be casualties. We will do our very best to stop a shooter as fast as we can to limit those casualties.
When was the last time that the police actually stopped a mass shooting spree on a college campus? In most recent mass shootings at schools and colleges, the shooter either commits suicide (Columbine, Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois) or surrenders to a school official before the cops arrive.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TechAlum05
When was the last time that the police actually stopped a mass shooting spree on a college campus? In most recent mass shootings at schools and colleges, the shooter either commits suicide (Columbine, Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois) or surrenders to a school official before the cops arrive.
Well, in all fairness, didn't some of them commit suicide because the cops were down on them?
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Americans have a right to own guns for self-defense and hunting, the justices' first major pronouncement on gun rights in U.S. history. In his ruling, Justice Scalia noted the following;
"Nothing should cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."
The Supreme Court just backed up that laws prohibiting guns on campus are constitutional and necessary. Oh well, I'm just a GOOBER who knows nothing about such things even though the Supreme Court just helped back my argument...
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Americans have a right to own guns for self-defense and hunting, the justices' first major pronouncement on gun rights in U.S. history. In his ruling, Justice Scalia noted the following;
"Nothing should cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."
The Supreme Court just backed up that laws prohibiting guns on campus are constitutional and necessary. Oh well, I'm just a GOOBER who knows nothing about such things even though the Supreme Court just helped back my argument...
You are clearly no lawyer. The Supreme Court did NOT sat that laws prohibiting guns on campus are NECESSARY. He just said they are constitutional. That doesn't mean they are a good idea. It also doesn't mean that if the restrictions were overturned (and students were permitted to carry guns) there would be a legal or constitutional problem. The SC was simply distinguishing the types of restrictions which are impermissible under the 2nd Amendment from those that are allowed by the Constitution.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Guisslapp
You are clearly no lawyer.
You are correct, I'm not a lawyer. I never professed to be either.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
The fact remians.... Carrying guns on campus is against the law and will remain that way.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
The fact remians.... Carrying guns on campus is against the law and the Supreme Court agrees.
Doesn't mean its a good thing.
I don't understand why most law officers are against law abiding citizens carrying handguns. It's the criminals you should be worrying about, not me.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cool Hand Clyde
Doesn't mean its a good thing.
I don't understand why most law officers are against law abiding citizens carrying handguns. It's the criminals you should be worrying about, not me.
I'm only against them being carried by students on a college campus. It complicates much more than it solves.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
I'm only against them being carried by students on a college campus. It complicates much more than it solves.
You know, there are a lot of good arguments for why CC shouldn't be allowed on campus. However, it seems to me that your argument is that in the event of a large scale event like what occurred on Va Tech's campus, CC would complicate matters for the police. Is that why you feel CC shouldn't be allowed on the college campus or is there more that you really haven't talked about?
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
As I have previously stated, there are several reasons I do not support CC carry on campus. First and foremost is the lack of training. CC classes do not even touch on active shooter situations. Then there is actually pulling a trigger. There is a big difference between plinking targets and stress shooting. Stress shooting is not covered in CC clases. I have seen seasoned officers miss the target completely when first exposed to high stress shooting. It takes training to learn to do it. Believe me.... a shootout is stress shooting. Then there is the possibility of an incident that would be caused in a classroom if someone accidentally exposed their weapon and someone saw it and freaked out. It would disrupt the classroom environment and potentially create a big mess that could have been avoided in the first place if a weapon wasn't there.
Another issue I have is competence to carry the weapon at all. There is no psychological evaluation for CC permitted persons. Only a criminal history is seriously looked at. There are people who can pass a CC course and be certified to carry CC that are in no way competent enough to carry a weapon at all. I have come across a couple in situations at work. THANK GOODNESS they weren't armed at the time!! It's a scary thought. I personally don't want these people to be able to legally carry on Tech campus.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dawgfan71227
As I have previously stated, there are several reasons I do not support CC carry on campus. First and foremost is the lack of training. CC classes do not even touch on active shooter situations. Then there is actually pulling a trigger. There is a big difference between plinking targets and stress shooting. Stress shooting is not covered in CC clases. I have seen seasoned officers miss the target completely when first exposed to high stress shooting. It takes training to learn to do it. Believe me.... a shootout is stress shooting. Then there is the possibility of an incident that would be caused in a classroom if someone accidentally exposed their weapon and someone saw it and freaked out. It would disrupt the classroom environment and potentially create a big mess that could have been avoided in the first place if a weapon wasn't there.
Another issue I have is competence to carry the weapon at all. There is no psychological evaluation for CC permitted persons. Only a criminal history is seriously looked at. There are people who can pass a CC course and be certified to carry CC that are in no way competent enough to carry a weapon at all. I have come across a couple in situations at work. THANK GOODNESS they weren't armed at the time!! It's a scary thought. I personally don't want these people to be able to legally carry on Tech campus.
Just out of curiosity, how many true shootouts (not training exercises, but real criminals with real ammo shooting back at you) have you been involved with?
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
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Originally Posted by
Abominable Gorilla
You know, there are a lot of good arguments for why CC shouldn't be allowed on campus. However, it seems to me that your argument is that in the event of a large scale event like what occurred on Va Tech's campus, CC would complicate matters for the police. Is that why you feel CC shouldn't be allowed on the college campus or is there more that you really haven't talked about?
I for one am AGAINST the concealed carry on campus.
A very interesting statistic that I heard once was that regular citizens (prolly even more for college stoodents) MISS their targets 80% of the time. Police are trained to qualify HITTING their targets 80% of the time.
Shooting deer in the middle of the woods with only you, the deer and a few buddies out there is alot different that having to shoot someone with possibly 12,000 stoodents on campus (obviously not in the same room, hallway,dorm, etc; but you get my drift)
I want to work this desk job that I have because that's 2 more 80% shooters out there on the streets making a difference.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DocMarvin362
I for one am AGAINST the concealed carry on campus.
A very interesting statistic that I heard once was that regular citizens (prolly even more for college stoodents) MISS their targets 80% of the time. Police are trained to qualify HITTING their targets 80% of the time.
Shooting deer in the middle of the woods with only you, the deer and a few buddies out there is alot different that having to shoot someone with possibly 12,000 stoodents on campus (obviously not in the same room, hallway,dorm, etc; but you get my drift)
I want to work this desk job that I have because that's 2 more 80% shooters out there on the streets making a difference.
You know you would go a long way in garnering legitimacy and support for your arguments if you would quit intentionally mispelling words such as students.:icon_wink:
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DocMarvin362
I for one am AGAINST the concealed carry on campus.
A very interesting statistic that I heard once was that regular citizens (prolly even more for college stoodents) MISS their targets 80% of the time. Police are trained to qualify HITTING their targets 80% of the time.
In that case, I'd really like your assessment. In the event you are in the same room as a suicidal killer, you're thinking...
1) I wish I had the ability to defend myself
2) I'm glad the police are good at their job and will be here quickly
I agree that you have a good point, but as individuals we have to take responsibility over our own life. If the police don't get there in time and the suicidal killer kills you, do you still die? Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that students with a CC lisence should chase after the killer with the intent to kill; but they do deserve the ability to protect themselves in a retreat. If the schools are not going to offer students the ability to protect themselves, then they should take responsibility in the event of a disaster. Tech, and all other universities, should install metal detectors at the doors and hire security for each building. If the maniac finds a weakness in the system, the university should be liable for a lawsuit.
Responsibility means taking your CC lisence seriously and keeping in good practice. You and I probably both agree that the CC license needs to be more difficult to obtain, especially with regards to shooting ability. However, that is an entirely different topic.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abominable Gorilla
In that case, I'd really like your assessment. In the event you are in the same room as a suicidal killer, you're thinking...
1) I wish I had the ability to defend myself
2) I'm glad the police are good at their job and will be here quickly
I'll answer 1, 2, 3 and 4.
#3. If I attempt to shoot him and I miss, killing another fellow innocent stoodent (just for you DD), I'm not certain that I'd be able to live with myself.. (mentally, not suicidal)
#4. If some citizen fires off a few rounds and shoots me, I hope that other person gets put in jail for something (involuntary manslaughter would be fine with me)
Not saying that anyone is right or wrong, but I wouldn't like it. I've seen college age kids tempers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Abominable Gorilla
Responsibility means taking your CC lisence seriously and keeping in good practice. You and I probably both agree that the CC license needs to be more difficult to obtain, especially with regards to shooting ability. However, that is an entirely different topic.
Yeap, but when you start add hands to the cookie jar, soon you'll run into more problems than you started with.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Doc,
I agree that it is not a simple issue and you do have good points. Hopefully people who hold a CC license have the intellegence to not fire off into a crowd of people or take a shot that they do not have. The ideal situation would be for suicidal mass killers to be constrained to movies, but until schools start taking this seriously (and they've roughly started to), personal protection should be an individual right, jmo.
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Re: HB199 Pulled From Consideration
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dirtydawg
Just out of curiosity, how many true shootouts (not training exercises, but real criminals with real ammo shooting back at you) have you been involved with?
71227, how about an answer to this question too?