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They would both be the same. By definition, existence starts with the Big Bang. An eternal existence doesn't make any sense without a supernatural element.

The problem is that we cannot imagine any other existence other than our space, time, energy, matter matrix.

The only definition of existence that we have is our space, time, energy, matter...

That statement just doesn't make any sense. I agree that our senses gives us information about our space, time, energy matter matrix, but OUR existence started with the Big Bang. Before the Big...

Wow, you make one arbitrary statement after another. Who says that our space, time, energy, matter matrix could not be any other way?

You might think that life forms are a small part of our...

You see, that statement is just plain wrong. our existence is defined by our space, time, energy, matter matrix which was created by the Big Bang and we have no knowledge of anything before the Big...

By "meaning" I mean that our space, time, energy, matter matrix is not a random accident, and that that statement is not arbitrary but can be deduced by the appearance of life forms in our space,...

Goodness sakes, randerizer, existence starts with the Big Bang.

All of your "axioms" don't amount to a hill of beans.

What do you mean by the word "meaning"?

What you are claiming is that because existence IS it has no meaning. isn't that arbitrary?

No you haven't. All you have done is reason from a group of assumptions. Since we don't know how or why the Big Bang occurred, a supernatural force that is unknown to us could be responsible.

Oh, really? I guess it would depend by what you mean by "meaning"?

You are the one who claim that you could disprove that a Supreme Being caused the Big Bang. That statement was arbitrary. I never stated that a Supreme Being caused the Big Bang.

Well, at least you are not saying that the the appearance of life in the Universe does not have any meaning, just that you don't see any meaning to it.

You can't disprove that a Supreme Being caused the Big Bang.

What you are saying is that you don't want to think about "the bigger picture." I would agree that homo sapiens might not last very long but that is not relevent to our appearance.

Sorry, but there are other facts as well. In cases like this we have to use our powers of deductive reasoning to form conclusions, otherwise what is the use of objectivism?

Don't know why you...

Who's talking about God? Certainly not me.

Who is searching for meaning when the facts speak for themselves?

It's true that the natural world is not in any hurry.........so what?

Just some rough numbers. 4 billion for the age of the Earth. 14 billion for the age of the Universe (since the Big Bang). Life appeared on Earth about 300 to 500 million years after the formation...

Sounds reasonable.

Getting back to my notion that the Universe has attributes, I'll advance the idea that one of them is that the Universe has as one of its functions the creation of life, i.e.,...

Let's start with a creator-neutral posture. Our senses tell us that the universe exists. We don't know why or how the Big Bang occurred. Does that sound reasonable to you?

It's a nice graph but whether it corresponds to reality is unprovable since the Big Bang destroyed any trace of any "possible" existence prior to the Big Bang. Not saying that existence doesn't move...

Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?:D

So what you are saying is that you see no meaning or purpose in existence although there might be some?

I've already stated that our existence is unexplained. That it cannot be defined. However, existence has attributes that we experience every day in a subjective/objective fashion. It's like the...

Since you don't think that there is a creator your answer most be that existence has no meaning or purpose.

No, what is it?