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Well, 2 things:

1) the rates aren't comparable, unless you can provide a realistic diffusion model to get back to the starting condition. basically, a diffusion pathway would lead to a decrease...

Salty, you know good and well that the bolded argument is unsubstantiated. Any idea what the diffusion coefficient of CO2 through ice is? How low would it need to be before, for the purpose of...

In a way, this might be a little like us spending huge sums of money going after those WMDs that we knew were present in Iraq. :)

In all seriousness, there is little doubt that global warming...

I still stand by the argument. There is no operable value we can place on future generations. :)

I guess the Bali conference worked really quickly? :idea2:

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There is no reconciliation. What people that WOULD HAVE been born would have preferred is not an argument that means anything to me. Neither is what people who WILL BE born...

It was my argument. Other people's interpretation of my argument just got jumbled because it was something they had not heard before. I have, from the beginning, claimed that the argument in no way...

If that is your argument, it is not logically constructed. You should know better. :)

The fact that I feel no obligation to save unknown people means nothing. My whole point is that "if you feel...

Interesting, but I would hardly say so.

I owe a debt for my life?

Not necessarily.



You're just changing terms and hoping to skirt the issue. Why do we have this responsibility? I don't think see that we (generically) do, and noone has supplied a...

Here are some works of interest on this subject, btw:

Parfit, Derek (1984), Reasons and Persons.


Schwartz, Thomas (1978), “Obligations to Posterity,” in Sikora, R.I. and Barry, B. (eds.),...

Actually it does change the to-be entity. We can't identify it precisely, but there should be little doubt that it is changed.

Let me recast this because I jumped the gun slightly in the whole...

Fair enough -- if there is no future period, there probably is no basis for a decision. But I am referring to currently existing entities and future existing entities, a subtle but important...

Well, I argue that there is no moral basis for placing value on the future lives of the nonliving. There might be other reasons not to drive a Ford F-350, but global warming is one of them. :)

OK, the future IS NOT. So it doesn't matter. :)

OK, but you are disregarding causality with respect to your actions. Our actions will certainly determine the makeup of the group. Precisely, that means exactly what I have argued.

Sure, but my argument is that there can be no obligation to CREATE a new life. :)



Nah, this just illustrates why your brand of forward-looking, future generation spinning environmentalism is...

It's chaos theory mixed with the statistics of conception. However different the 2 prospective children would be in behavior, etc., they are nonetheless 2 quite different prospective children.
...

I do not have a moral obligation to disarm the detonator, but I would probably choose to try to do so. (Unless I did something to willfully get involved moreso than what has been told to me).

It's...

The child is clearly different. You are introducing your self-interested values into the mix, which is causing the confusion. To YOU, it is a child. It's impossible to distinguish the...

I don't do anything of real consequence without properly basing my decision. I am most certainly not "anti-environment," but YOU are the one being lazy.

Do you really consider the ramifications to your future children when you decide between coke and water?

You are partially right -- it is not predetermined. However, that does not mean that Group...

It will cause one future being to not exist, and it will cause another to exist. But the one that would have existed (before we altered the course with an action motivated by duty to the future) is...

A little pissy... :icon_wink: