Based upon what? How do you figure this punishment is appropriate?Originally Posted by Bigdog13
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Based upon what? How do you figure this punishment is appropriate?
It's just like dealing with a politician. The subsequent lies and coverups get'em every time. It's rarely the original infraction that gets them.
HD
Sticking with the political side of things, I feel like Goodell has to overcompensate and save face after the 18 game season debacle. That really got in a lot of the player's crawls, especially since the fans didnt really support it. It seemed like Goodell and crew said extra injuries are okay as long as it lines owner's pockets. Goodell is still fighting that perception.
Again especially with the 11 new injury lawsuits filed by NFL players against the NFL, whioch happens to be in the District court located in New Orleans. This whole deal is such a BULLSMIT overreach to save face!!!
Depending on how severe the punishments are on our current defensive players, has anyone thought about the possibility of Josh Victorian getting a shot?
I just think it is. It's based on my own values. I don't base it on how the Patriots got punished because that is assuming the Patriots were punished correctly. I also take into account that they were two completely different crimes and I think the Saints had multiple chances and thumbed their noses at the NFL each time. Chances were if they just would have ended it there likely wouldn't have been any punishment whatsoever. NONE. That is another reason why the "everyone does it argument" is weak as hell oh that and it is also the excuse most elementary and jr high kids give when they do something wrong.
To me the bounty issue deserves maybe the $500k fine and nothing else. ....A slap on the wrist.
.......The lies and coverups???? Let's just say the Saints are VERY lucky I am not the commissioner. I think they got off lightly.
And frankly I am stunned at how many Saints fans who should be INCREDIBLY pissed at Peyton, Loomis, Etc.... are not speaking out at all about that but instead redirecting their anger at Goodell. I know if Jason Garrett pulled a stunt like this I would want him shit-canned on the spot. Fired immediately, I would want the GM job forecefully taken from Jones by the NFL and Rob Ryan fired on the spot as well. My anger would be directed at the perpetrators not the authority. I think some people are letting winning stand in the way of sound ethics/morals and judgement.
And yeah, I know for a fact that Tyler and some of the other Saints fans who seem to hate the Cowboys would think the punishment was completely appropriate had Jerry Jones somehow been involved in something similar.
The jr high argument is exactly why the punishment is too harsh. Everyone does it. That doesn't make it right, but it's the truth. Its not an excuse but a fact. Unfortunately for the Saints, they were stupid and left a paper trail. Goodell went to extreme in making the Saints an example. The Patriots situation was very similar (worse in my opinion bc they were knowingly cheating, but that's another argument) yet the punishments are worlds apart. The Patriots lied and denied just like the Saints did. As Hussdawg stated, this is Goodell trying to repair his image from wanting to extend the season. That, and he's a dicktator.
As for morals, the Saints coaches and players just happen to be the ones that got caught. Doesn't make them any worse than others who have participated in the same type of incentive programs. Incentives within the locker room have been a part of the NFL for a loooong time. If you are Benson, there's no reason to go cleaning house bc of this. Loomis is arguably the best GM in football and Payton is no doubt one of the best coaches, especially considering his and Brees's cohesiveness. Keep Payton, keep Brees. Fire Payton, and Brees may not retire a Saint.
FREE PAYTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by hambone29; 03-27-2012 at 07:42 PM.
I just checked....I'm still a Saints' fan. What I do like is how this has further galvanized Who Dat Nation. The fact that other NFL fans even suggest Saints' fans being pissed off at Coach Payton or Micky Loomis shows they are clueless about the unique relationship that exists between Saints' fans and the Saints. Oh, you'll hear some try to articulate it, to kind of explain it. Some will say "there are diehard fans" everywhere. Every NFL franchise has 'em. Yep, no doubt. Every team has diehard fans. But only the Saints enjoy....I know what it is, and even I can't explain it.
I can point out examples, though. The day after Katrina clobbered New Orleans a reporter from a national network was in a boat and came across an older black gentleman wading waste-deep water and carrying some belongings. They stopped him to ask some questions. In the background a new billboard advertised the Saints' 2005 season, and how to buy season tix, etc...
The gentleman explained he had lost everything. His house was flooded. He had inadequate insurance. Everything was gone. The reporter trying to be sympathetic said, that is just terrible. The old fellow glanced around, saw the billboard and a big smile lit up his face, he said proudly, well, we haven't lost everything, we still have our Saints!
'nough said.
Well....we still have our Saints! And I think that "us against the world" mentality will carry the Who Dats to a Super Bowl title this year!
Yep, this explains a whole lot about this issue to me.
126 former players sue NFL over head injuries
Mark Rypien is lead plaintiff in lawsuit against NFL over head injuries
One of 15 Redskins who are part of suit
By Nathan Fenno
-
The Washington Times
Updated: 5:07 p.m. on Tuesday, March 27, 2012
Yep! I was at a meeting in BR last week and an attorney, whose firm represents several Saints and a few players on other teams, as well as LSU football, told me a lawsuit was coming and that was the main reason Baddell came down so hard on the bounty thingy. Trying to show the NFL is getting tough and trying to protect the players. This fellow also said the colleges are next to get nailed.
Well, there is NO magic method to protect players from concussions, unless, of course, the game is radically changed. Padding/cushioning in the helmets does not prevent the brain from moving inside the skull on impacts, and that is what causes concussions and brain injuries. But, everyone has always known that. I've known that forever. So, why has this come as a surprise to Rypien and the other crybabies?
It's the reason most (all?) high schools now spend $6,000/year getting helmets "refit." No, it does nothing to prevent the kind of injuries like that, but at least they can tell parents, the general public, they TRIED to protect the kids from brain injuries.
Again, this is no big secret, and has been commonly known and spoken of for decades among coaches, players, trainers, team doctors, etc... I have no sympathy for Rypien and this group. Just another attempt at extortion. "Get your money for nuttin, and your chicks for free...."
Look! it's really simple. Our heros, our true heros, our Veterans, come home missing limbs, experiencing all kinds of horrible trauma. I think this nation owes it to them to provide healthcare and other benefits. But! I would not support them suing based on they did not know they could suffer such injuries.
I always thought it was checks for free, but free chicks would work too. I think the underlined statements are misleading. Padding and cushioning cannot prevent the brain from moving inside the skull, but it can have a great effect on how fast the brain moves inside the skull. Concussions are like the saying about jumping out of a building- It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end. If a 1 kg brain has to decelerate from 1 m/s to 0 the amount of time it has to decelerate has a huge impact on the force exerted on the brain. If the brain decelerates in 0.01 seconds, it sees about 100 g's deceleration which is plenty to cause a concussion. If it stops in 0.02 seconds it only sees 50 g's of deceleration greatly reducing the risk of concussion. This is a very simplified version and the fluid around the brain probably makes it a differential equation to figure out exacly how the brain decelerates vs the head, but the principal is the same. Cushioning cannot prevent the brain movement, but it can greatly reduce it.
Refitting helmets on high schoolers is more about making sure that the helmet stays on and remains tight against the head so that the padding and cushioning has a chance to work properly. There is some benefit to making sure the helmets fit properly.
All of that to say that you are correct that there is no magic bullet to protect players. I also agree that this is part of the profession that they signed up for. If they weren't willing to take the risk, they should have gone into something safer.
Wait a minute.. Gregg Williams is a disciple of Buddy Ryan where he said he learned the bounty system. And you expect me to believe that HIS SONS DONT do it??Come on.You know dang well that Rex did it in Baltimore and now with Jets and your boy in Dallas is doing it as well. I do agree the problem with Saints is they were dumb enough to keep a paper trail and have the proof against them. They also covered it up which was probably the worst thing. They deserved to be punished but this was excessive. However they did it to themselves so im not that pissed.
Exactly!
And???
I'm not on some sort of high horse here. If the Cowboys or any other teams are caught doing it they should be treated exactly as the Saints were. And if we behave in the manner the Saints did we should be punished the same way the Saints were. Actually we should be punished even more severely.
Unlike other fans on here when the coach of my favorite team does something wrong I don't glorify him and it doesn't "galvanize" me to the team. Oh and for the record when I am talking about right and wrong, I am talking about the lies, instructing subordinates to lie and the coverups. I'm not talking about the Bounty. That is a slap on the wrist offense. And the Saints would have not even gotten that had they pulled a Barney Fife and Nipped It. Nip It In The Bud!! But as we saw they aren't even as smart as ole Barney.
Shocker.
Uh yeah Tyler we get that you agree with anything pro Saints.
....Whether it is true or not.
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