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Thread: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

  1. #31
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Seriously guys,

    A teacher getting an observation that says "ineffective" doesn't come from an isolated incident. It's a process by which the administrator observes the growth or lack thereof of the teacher in question. And you know what, they get a performance evaluation like the rest of us in the private sector. All these horror stories of having one bad class or a class in a low SES (socio-economic status) area and getting fired forever are completely baseless.

    There are truly terrible teachers in low SES districts, and they are EASY to spot. Principals hold on to good teachers, and get stuck with the ones who are bad because of this moronic tenure system. 3 years and a pulse, and you're in. Stupid.

    I can fly an airplane like an ace and make greased landings for 11 months, but if I fail ONE 45 minute checkride with a person I've never seen before, I can very easily lose my job with my current company. Most of us can not withstand a bad performance appraisal, and especially not two. Why are teachers any different?

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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazarus_KKY View Post
    For children to learn they need reinforcement from home and parents to take an interest in their children.
    They are probably just very busy working hard in the free market.

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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Kids need Asian parents.

    Jermey Lin and I turned out great!

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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    The charter school system is about one thing -

    Free-will employment and the state and local govt bodies not being on the hook for the benefits associated with the public system (which are about 70 to 75% of the costs to the local board)...

    That's what this is all about - not education or lack thereof - but massive cost cutting
    ''Don't be a bad dagh..."

  5. #35
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by LATechBanjo View Post
    Seriously guys,

    A teacher getting an observation that says "ineffective" doesn't come from an isolated incident. It's a process by which the administrator observes the growth or lack thereof of the teacher in question. And you know what, they get a performance evaluation like the rest of us in the private sector. All these horror stories of having one bad class or a class in a low SES (socio-economic status) area and getting fired forever are completely baseless.

    There are truly terrible teachers in low SES districts, and they are EASY to spot. Principals hold on to good teachers, and get stuck with the ones who are bad because of this moronic tenure system. 3 years and a pulse, and you're in. Stupid.

    I can fly an airplane like an ace and make greased landings for 11 months, but if I fail ONE 45 minute checkride with a person I've never seen before, I can very easily lose my job with my current company. Most of us can not withstand a bad performance appraisal, and especially not two. Why are teachers any different?
    Teachers are evaluated based off of test scores. That is a big part you are missing. Teachers also get evaluated but in this system that evaluation has a direct coronation between the funds a school gets. On paper the system sounds like it will work but implementation won't be as simple as seen. If there can be a better method of evaluation then maybe this might work.

    The bad teacher problem will always exist. I am not convinced there is a solution to get rid of bad teachers. Getting kids to pass tests will weed out as many good teachers as bad teachers. In fact it actually dumbs it down so bad teachers can get a raise if they can trick the system by causing higher scores.

    Another problem I have not seen discussed is the chaos of teachers constantly moving. The plan removes the step raise system. Freezing the salaries of teachers and they will receive bonuses based on performance. Teachers starting out will be locked in at the minimum base salary unless they change jobs. Teachers would be crazy not to move around every year force their salary to increase each year because their starting salary will still be based on years.

  6. #36
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    For those worried about the standardized testing as a teacher evaluation here's some notes from APEL;

    ·******** Teachers will get a score compared to other teachers with the same type of students.*
    ·******** Principals can move teachers and offer incentives to get them to teach high risk grades.*
    ·******** Principals have a set rubric for the entire state that looks at the rigor of the goal and whether or not you have met

  7. #37
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne From Minden View Post
    The charter school system is about one thing -

    Free-will employment and the state and local govt bodies not being on the hook for the benefits associated with the public system (which are about 70 to 75% of the costs to the local board)...

    That's what this is all about - not education or lack thereof - but massive cost cutting
    BINGO! Just don't wrap it in a package and call it reform. Cut the budget and/or benefits and be done with it. This reform deal reminds me of a saying, "Don't piss down my back and then tell me it's raining." Be up front with the whole thing.
    “Towie Barclay of the Glen, Happy to the maids, But never to the men.”

  8. #38
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Tenure needs to go. University professors have tenure to protect against social engineering. No need for tenure to teach a basic education.

    The voucher system is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE idea. The state is broke as it is right now. Why in the hell are we looking to spend more money? Plus, it will do nothing to solve the problem. Poor lower class kids with good grades will leave the crappy schools to move into private schools. Private schools will raise tuition more to offset the State's reimbursement to minimize the influx of the unwashed. Public schools get less money and are sucked dry of the only kids whose parents are trying to raise them responsibly.

    If anything, we need a bill that deducts from the parents welfare for the kids poor school performance.

  9. #39
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by GermDawg View Post
    For those worried about the standardized testing as a teacher evaluation here's some notes from

    ·******** Teachers will get a score compared to other teachers with the same type of students.*
    Who decides the scoring process and how it can be decided that the students are the same type?
    ·******** Principals can move teachers and offer incentives to get them to teach high risk grades.*
    WTH?
    ·******** Principals have a set rubric for the entire state that looks at the rigor of the goal and whether or not you have met
    Principals have set a what? You really think that the principals are for this and have done anything? What Principals? How many? And from where? Who decides the "rigor" of the goal and just what does that mean?
    “Towie Barclay of the Glen, Happy to the maids, But never to the men.”

  10. #40
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by GermDawg View Post
    For those worried about the standardized testing as a teacher evaluation here's some notes from APEL;

    ·******** Teachers will get a score compared to other teachers with the same type of students.*
    ·******** Principals can move teachers and offer incentives to get them to teach high risk grades.*
    ·******** Principals have a set rubric for the entire state that looks at the rigor of the goal and whether or not you have met
    Spin trying to make it sound better. Teachers and principals have a say in what level of kids they get. Which means what? In the coin toss to determine their pay we are letting the teachers call heads or tails? Performance based pay is one thing. But at the very least we can find some way to determine it off of something they can control.

  11. #41
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Some questions about the voucher program -
    How much is the voucher?
    Is it a set amount, based on a percentage of tuition, or a payment of full tution?
    How much does the state spend on each student?
    Is the idea that the amount spent with the voucher is less than the cost of the state providing for the student?

  12. #42
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by JuBru View Post
    Some questions about the voucher program -
    How much is the voucher?
    Is it a set amount, based on a percentage of tuition, or a payment of full tution?
    How much does the state spend on each student?
    Is the idea that the amount spent with the voucher is less than the cost of the state providing for the student?
    Low socio economic families are allowed to enroll their kids in any school regardless of district. No different cost. On paper it is a noble cause. But how it will work is the smart poor kids will go to the good schools and the "dumb" poor kids will drag down test scores at the title 1 schools. Or atleast that is the worry of teachers.

    I guess teachers at rich schools are also afraid the "dumb" kids will transfer and lower their scores.

  13. #43
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by LATechBanjo View Post
    Seriously guys,

    A teacher getting an observation that says "ineffective" doesn't come from an isolated incident. It's a process by which the administrator observes the growth or lack thereof of the teacher in question. And you know what, they get a performance evaluation like the rest of us in the private sector. All these horror stories of having one bad class or a class in a low SES (socio-economic status) area and getting fired forever are completely baseless.

    There are truly terrible teachers in low SES districts, and they are EASY to spot. Principals hold on to good teachers, and get stuck with the ones who are bad because of this moronic tenure system. 3 years and a pulse, and you're in. Stupid.

    I can fly an airplane like an ace and make greased landings for 11 months, but if I fail ONE 45 minute checkride with a person I've never seen before, I can very easily lose my job with my current company. Most of us can not withstand a bad performance appraisal, and especially not two. Why are teachers any different?
    Ummm, I'm pretty sure teachers have performance evaluations already. Even tenured teachers.

  14. #44
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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    Quote Originally Posted by mentechsters View Post
    Ummm, I'm pretty sure teachers have performance evaluations already. Even tenured teachers.
    BINGO! They are already evaluated in this manner.
    “Towie Barclay of the Glen, Happy to the maids, But never to the men.”

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    Re: Say No to Jindal's New Proposed Education "Reform"

    The one thing that is missing from this whole equation is peer evaluations. Think about it. The "front line" workers evaluating each other. What an amazing concept that is noticeably lacking from this equation. I can tell you from my viewpoint as a business owner that my employees review of other employees means much more to me than feedback from management but I take both into consideration.
    “Towie Barclay of the Glen, Happy to the maids, But never to the men.”

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