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Thread: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

  1. #796
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    We disagree strongly there.
    Explain why, then.

  2. #797
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Explain why, then.
    I'm not even sure where to begin. Perceptions are not fixed. No standard can be applied. Charles Manson believed the Beatles were sending him coded messages too.

    I haven't reviewed the entire speech, but some of the headlines I saw said he called for the elimination of Israel. This was seemingly based on his history of anti- Israel positions and the "river to the sea" comment. He has now lost his job over this and faced real world consequences for something that may not have been intended in the way it was received.

    If you want to not watch his show, great. If you don't want to vote for a guy, that's fine. If we are going to fire somebody or ruin their reputation let's do it based on the things they actually said and did versus the things we think they were saying in secret code.

    If he is dog whistling or speaking in a secret code, what do you think the signal he was sending was? That he supports the Palestinians? What is that supposed to accomplish when there are people that openly display those positions? How can we be so sure about his intentions.

    I'm very uncomfortable doling out justice based on our ability to read minds. It's too open to misinterpretation and having to speak in code is already a pretty effective limit on the power that their speech holds in my opinion.

    Why do you think it is more dangerous for people to speak in secret code than for us to punish people based on our perception of their possible secret code?

  3. #798
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Firing and voting is not “doling out justice”. It is about holding people accountable for what they say, even when the statements aren’t explicit.

    For criminal justice matters, it requires proof of mens rea and proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but that is not what we are dealing with here with Trump and Hill’s dogwhistling.

    In a best case scenario, Trump doesn’t know what nationalism signifies to most people and Hill doesn’t know what the “river to the sea” reference means. Incompetence of the signaling effect of your chosen words doesn’t mean you should keep your job. And in Trump’s case, he doubles and triples down after people tell him that the word has a signaling effect.

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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Trump doesn’t know what nationalism signifies to most people
    "America First Baby!!"


    BTW Guisslapp; Socialism is just Communism or pure Nazism without private ownership of guns. And again Hitler was a professed socialist to begin with which led to the Nazi's own National Socialist Workers Party.
    Servants and slaves don't own guns but true citizens do. It's what separates and protects us from too much governmental power.

    Democrats are moving very hard and quit to pure socialism (take away American's gun ownership rights and national health care crappola). Socialism eventually leads to a chaotic communism or nazi like government where citizens become servants without real power and not true citizens.

  5. #800
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Good thing the Greatest Generation weren’t nationalists.

  6. #801
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Good thing the Greatest Generation weren’t nationalists.
    That's EXACTLY what they were.

    You don't get to change the definition every time it fits your agenda.

  7. #802
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    That's EXACTLY what they were.

    You don't get to change the definition every time it fits your agenda.
    No, YOU guys are trying to say they were nationalists when they were patriots.

  8. #803
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    No, YOU guys are trying to say they were nationalists when they were patriots.
    You are using the snowflake definition of nationalist that says if Trump is one, they must be Nazis.

  9. #804
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Firing and voting is not “doling out justice”. It is about holding people accountable for what they say, even when the statements aren’t explicit.

    For criminal justice matters, it requires proof of mens rea and proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but that is not what we are dealing with here with Trump and Hill’s dogwhistling.

    In a best case scenario, Trump doesn’t know what nationalism signifies to most people and Hill doesn’t know what the “river to the sea” reference means. Incompetence of the signaling effect of your chosen words doesn’t mean you should keep your job. And in Trump’s case, he doubles and triples down after people tell him that the word has a signaling effect.
    I disagree. There is not and should not be a requirement for everyone to know what every phrase means to everybody. Don Lemon recently called someone a chickenhead-then said he doesn't know what that means. Apparently I didn't either. Apparently it's a sexually derogatory term to some people. Should he be fired?

    It's not holding people accountable for what they say, it's holding people accountable for what you think they mean. BIG DIFFERENCE. The only way you can be confident in their meaning is if they have been more explicit previously and if that is the case you should hold them accountable for that. You also can't submit to others arbitrarily dictating the meaning of words. If a group starts using socialist as a code word for the national socialist workers party of old are we going to start attacking people who call themselves socialist or say they support socialist policies? What you are talking about is thought police.
    If you think someone is dog whistling don't watch their show or don't vote for them. If enough people agree with you the problem will sort itself out.
    It's troubling to me how intolerant people have become. I'd still like you to answer my question back to you though.

  10. #805
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    That is what I said.

  11. #806
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    That is what I said.
    It's not though. And you still haven't answered the question.

  12. #807
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    It's not though. And you still haven't answered the question.
    Explain who he dogwhistled to and what message he was trying to avoid being accountable for saying. I am not sure I follow.

  13. #808
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Explain who he dogwhistled to and what message he was trying to avoid being accountable for saying. I am not sure I follow.
    I know you don't follow. That's nothing new. He's not dog whistling to anyone. That's what I'm saying. It's stupid to attack the guy because what he said has some word with hidden meaning.

  14. #809
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    It's stupid to attack the guy because what he said has some word with hidden meaning.
    Only snowflake socialist liberals get upset over what he actually says. That's upsetting to those who are easily upset. Gotta love it!

  15. #810
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    Re: CNN Ratings Hit 20-Year Low...

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    I know you don't follow. That's nothing new. He's not dog whistling to anyone. That's what I'm saying. It's stupid to attack the guy because what he said has some word with hidden meaning.
    The meaning wasn’t hidden to Trump or Hill’s audience.

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