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Thread: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

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    MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    You just knew this was going to happen.

    MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Posted by Ben Kercheval on July 25, 2012, 4:09 PM EDT
    The conference future for Idaho and New Mexico State is now looking more grim than ever. Barring a miracle, both could very likely be headed for FCS status rather soon.

    The Vandals and Aggies have watched its home, the WAC, get raided time and time again over the past couple of years. In recent months, the chances of their own adoption got slimmer by the day.

    I think it’s safe to say those chances are now hovering somewhere between zero and never.

    Speaking during Mountain West media days, commissioner Craig Thompson ended any discussion about his league picking up the two remaining members from the decimated WAC.

    http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports...-on-to-plan-b/

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    That sucks for those guys. They don't deserve to be thrown overboard like that, but I'm not sure if they have another option.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    People question whether the WAC was a good move for us, for them I think they would obviously be better off if they had stayed in the sunbelt. NMSU would probably still be competing for bball championships and Idaho would at least still have a home. I think they improved quite a bit as members of the WAC, but burning the sun belt bridge probably wasn't worth it for them.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    How many members does the belt have and how bad did they burn that bridge. I thought they would return there. Guess there was more to the story than I knew.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post
    How many members does the belt have and how bad did they burn that bridge. I thought they would return there. Guess there was more to the story than I knew.
    I have no insider information, but I don't think the Sun Belt was particularly sad to lose them the first time. NMSU brings some value just for their basketball, but probably not enough to justify the travel. I think both would strengthen football, but football strength is not particularly important and the Sun Belt won't make any money off of a championship game anyways. I think they may have burned the bridge in the sense that they just can't go back, because there aren't any really compelling reasons for the Sunbelt to add them.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    I have no insider information, but I don't think the Sun Belt was particularly sad to lose them the first time. NMSU brings some value just for their basketball, but probably not enough to justify the travel. I think both would strengthen football, but football strength is not particularly important and the Sun Belt won't make any money off of a championship game anyways. I think they may have burned the bridge in the sense that they just can't go back, because there aren't any really compelling reasons for the Sunbelt to add them.
    That makes sense. I feel more for NMSU, actually. I think they have done some things to better their program. They just weren't quiet there yet. Idaho seems to have done very little to their facilities or programs. They have academics that are good, but that is about it. NMSU has a decent market size, but a market that doesn't care about them. I walked around NMSU's stadium one time. Talk about a nice backdrop around it........

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Idaho was 15-5 against Boise State between 1980-1999.

    Imagine NLU in the Big East and Tech without a conference. Great example of why we should never get complacent!

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post
    How many members does the belt have and how bad did they burn that bridge. I thought they would return there. Guess there was more to the story than I knew.
    The Belt has 10 football members. FBO invites for the Vandals & Aggies would save 2 FBS programs, as well as save the WAC from extinction. And would give the Belt a championship game.

    Also note the "haves" in the FBS ($ec, Pac, Big12, B1G, ACC & ND) currently have a bare one-vote majority (63 out 124). Losing 2 "mid-majors" (pardon the term) to the FCS only strengthens the money-programs' position.

    I maintain it is in the best interest of both the Belt, and the entire sport, to throw Idaho & NMSU a lifeline. But I doubt Benson* will do it, because:

    1) He is a spiteful SOB; and
    2) He is a trained monkey for the "haves" (ref. Chad Boyd incident)


    * Yes, I know it's technically the presidents that make the final decision.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967 View Post
    The Belt has 10 football members. FBO invites for the Vandals & Aggies would save 2 FBS programs, as well as save the WAC from extinction. And would give the Belt a championship game.

    Also note the "haves" in the FBS ($ec, Pac, Big12, B1G, ACC & ND) currently have a bare one-vote majority (63 out 124). Losing 2 "mid-majors" (pardon the term) to the FCS only strengthens the money-programs' position.

    I maintain it is in the best interest of both the Belt, and the entire sport, to throw Idaho & NMSU a lifeline. But I doubt Benson* will do it, because:

    1) He is a spiteful SOB; and
    2) He is a trained monkey for the "haves" (ref. Chad Boyd incident)


    * Yes, I know it's technically the presidents that make the final decision.
    I agree........ And, yes, it is the Presidents, but they always seemed to follow Benson into the fire..... I doubt the belt will be any different. I didn't think Benson would have any spite for NMSU or Idaho, though.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967 View Post
    The Belt has 10 football members. FBO invites for the Vandals & Aggies would save 2 FBS programs, as well as save the WAC from extinction. And would give the Belt a championship game.

    Also note the "haves" in the FBS ($ec, Pac, Big12, B1G, ACC & ND) currently have a bare one-vote majority (63 out 124). Losing 2 "mid-majors" (pardon the term) to the FCS only strengthens the money-programs' position.

    I maintain it is in the best interest of both the Belt, and the entire sport, to throw Idaho & NMSU a lifeline. But I doubt Benson* will do it, because:

    1) He is a spiteful SOB; and
    2) He is a trained monkey for the "haves" (ref. Chad Boyd incident)


    * Yes, I know it's technically the presidents that make the final decision.

    3. Travel to Moscow and Las Cruces.
    4. Splitting your limited conference money 2 more ways.

    I wish they'd do it, but I can see why they wouldn't want to.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    My understanding is that there actually was some bad blood with the departure of USU, NMSU, and Idaho. Or the way it went down anyway. Supposedly, there was an understanding. They were free to leave because all three preferred the WAC, but:

    1) They were not to do so until the Sun Belt had enough teams so that the conference would not be placed in jeopardy.

    2) They were supposed to leave as a unit, or with Utah State and Idaho together (they mighta preferred keeping NMSU, all things being equal).

    The first requirement was met because there were enough schools coming in to still have eight. The second requirement was *eventually* met, but USU and NMSU both bolted without a second thought to Idaho. Idaho being left behind was apparently precisely what the conference was trying to avoid. It all worked out in the end, but I wouldn't be surprised if that factored in the decision not to give NMSU a lifeline despite what they have to offer (Idaho didn't do anything wrong, but Idaho doesn't have to offer what NMSU does and, of course, is a world away).

    It will be interesting to see if they can stay in FBS. I hope that they can. If the WAC survives as a non-FB (and I think it stands a chance unless non-FB and FCS conferences start issuing invitations), it's mostly a question of football scheduling. Difficult, and costly, but maybe not impossible.
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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    4. Splitting your limited conference money 2 more ways.


    This is the key reason (although several Belt schools have vowed to never make the trip to Moscow again). I've heard several radio interviews with Benson in the last few months. When talk of expansion comes up, he takes a very different tone than what he took in February when he was hired by the SunBelt. Back then, he gave the strong impression it was a matter of "when" the league would expand, not "if" it would expand.

    But he also now talks about TV contracts and meetings he's had more recently with ESPN. He now openly discusses the "exposure" contract the SunBelt has with ESPN and how beneficial it could be to a successful SunBelt program moving forward. He cites Boise State as an example of what ESPN can do for a program.

    He never mentions a dollar increase in any new deal with ESPN or any other network. When asked that question directly, I've heard him dodge it. Why? Because there is no increase in the deal. ESPN wants weeknight games from the SunBelt for "exposure", not dollars.

    If the SunBelt invites two more schools, it would only split the pool that much more. In fact, I don't know if ESPN would even be willing to pay the expense of staging a championship game. They would televise it. They just don't want to pay for it.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post
    I agree........ And, yes, it is the Presidents, but they always seemed to follow Benson into the fire..... I doubt the belt will be any different. I didn't think Benson would have any spite for NMSU or Idaho, though.
    The presidents of NM State and Idaho effectively fired Benson. The reason Benson left the WAC for the Belch is because the WAC presidents refused to grant him a 4-year contract extension that would have taken him into retirement. Benson's contract with the WAC would have expired June 30, 2012. There's plenty of reason for spite.

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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    It seems to me that at present, the SBC has no football-only members, nor any affiliate members. So they ought to be able to say "NMSU, Idaho, you can join as affiliate members. Your cut of the TV deal is approximately $0. You will, however, get conference scheduling and a chance at playing in the conference championship and you get conference scheduling. Given the alternatives, I don't see why Idaho and NMSU wouldn't accept that, given the alternatives. It would give the SBC a championship game, would would be an additional game of exposure. Also, both Idaho and NMSU have third-tier production capability (I think, NMSU has AggieVision and I think UI has something), which I don't think many SBC schools do.

    I'm assuming there is some reason this didn't come to pass. Other than the reluctance of schools in Texas, Arkansas, and Louisiana to fly to Idaho every other year (which I wouldn't consider a big deal, but maybe they do), I'm not sure what it is. The beauty of affiliate membership is that you don't really have to split the money. In some lower-tier sports, schools pay the conference to house their sports.
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    Re: MWC to Idaho, New Mexico State: ‘Go on to Plan B’

    Quote Originally Posted by The Historian View Post
    4. Splitting your limited conference money 2 more ways.


    This is the key reason (although several Belt schools have vowed to never make the trip to Moscow again). I've heard several radio interviews with Benson in the last few months. When talk of expansion comes up, he takes a very different tone than what he took in February when he was hired by the SunBelt. Back then, he gave the strong impression it was a matter of "when" the league would expand, not "if" it would expand.

    But he also now talks about TV contracts and meetings he's had more recently with ESPN. He now openly discusses the "exposure" contract the SunBelt has with ESPN and how beneficial it could be to a successful SunBelt program moving forward. He cites Boise State as an example of what ESPN can do for a program.

    He never mentions a dollar increase in any new deal with ESPN or any other network. When asked that question directly, I've heard him dodge it. Why? Because there is no increase in the deal. ESPN wants weeknight games from the SunBelt for "exposure", not dollars.

    If the SunBelt invites two more schools, it would only split the pool that much more. In fact, I don't know if ESPN would even be willing to pay the expense of staging a championship game. They would televise it. They just don't want to pay for it.
    This link from 2009 reports that the Sunbelt tv deal was worth $0.
    http://www.byucougs.com/2009/10/upda...erence-tv.html

    This post from RC shows that the Belch actually loses money off their tv contract.
    Quote Originally Posted by RealityCheck View Post
    The Sun Belt loses money since it produces its own TV network package and pays for it out of its own pocket. There is no other way to explain why the NCAA distribution to the Sun Belt from all funds in 2009-2010 was $11,804,207, but that the Sun Belt conference distribution to all members combined excluding only Denver (other non-football members got under $300K each) was only $9,410,693.

    By comparison the WAC received $11,923,522 from the NCAA in 2009-2010, but the WAC distribution to members not counting Frenso State's $2 million-plus amount was $20,095,632.

    Subtracting out BC$ money from the conference distributions, that leaves the Sun Belt ($1,559,570) distributing only about $8.2 million (including Denver at about $300K) compared to $11.8 million in NCAA money. The WAC distribution after BC$ money ($7,798,925) was still over $14.2 million (including Fresno State at $2 million) compared to just under $12 million amount received from the NCAA.

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