The End Of America

[DawgyNWindow]

So why are the conservatives against raising taxes on the top 1%?

Since you insist on being shill.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bad-ti...151818896.html

"Hiking tax rates on $1 million-plus earners to the levels Obama has proposed would raise, at most, about $70 billion per year, according to data from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. That would only cut this year's projected deficit by about 8 percent. Lowering the threshold for tax hikes to $250,000 would still only generate about $83 billion--less than 10 percent of the annual deficit."


It's a scam, and at that low of a level of tax revenue, it would likely reduce economic activity enough to more than offset the pittance it would collect. In the long run, it would probably decrease federal revenue. And the threshold that moron is proposing is $200,000, which is pretty much guaranteed to kill economic activity, because that includes most small businesses.

[saltydawg]

Since you insist on being shill.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bad-ti...151818896.html

"Hiking tax rates on $1 million-plus earners to the levels Obama has proposed would raise, at most, about $70 billion per year, according to data from the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. That would only cut this year's projected deficit by about 8 percent. Lowering the threshold for tax hikes to $250,000 would still only generate about $83 billion--less than 10 percent of the annual deficit."


It's a scam, and at that low of a level of tax revenue, it would likely reduce economic activity enough to more than offset the pittance it would collect. In the long run, it would probably decrease federal revenue. And the threshold that moron is proposing is $200,000, which is pretty much guaranteed to kill economic activity, because that includes most small businesses.

I think that Obama wants to raise taxes on those making more than $250k a year. That would probably raise about $125 billion. As for killing economic activity, I don't see it since those are same tax rates when Clinton was POTUS. Probably doing something to reduce the deficit would increase economic activity. Most small business owners don't make over $250k.


Anyway the Tax Policy Center estimates that going over the fiscal cliff would raise $500 billion in additional revenue. That revenue together with $500 billion in spending cuts would balance the budget

[RhythmDawg]

Obamacare incentivizes physicians to specialize and students to choose alternatives to med school at much higher rates. We are seeing our physician shortage worsen, even here locally.

http://gma.yahoo.com/doc-shortage-co...ws-health.html

[RhythmDawg]

I think that Obama wants to raise taxes on those making more than $250k a year. That would probably raise about $125 billion. As for killing economic activity, I don't see it since those are same tax rates when Clinton was POTUS. Probably doing something to reduce the deficit would increase economic activity. Most small business owners don't make over $250k.


Anyway the Tax Policy Center estimates that going over the fiscal cliff would raise $500 billion in additional revenue. That revenue together with $500 billion in spending cuts would balance the budget

Um, Salty...in case you haven't noticed...Obama's economy is at the opposite end of the spectrum from Bill's economy. You can't say tax rates will have the same effect on business now as they had then. If you do, you don't understand business. Have you ever owned or operated a business?


Since President Obama Took Office, The U.S. Economy Has Lost 473,000 Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, www.bls.gov, 7/26/12)

During President Clinton’s Time In Office, The U.S. Economy Created 22.7 Million New Jobs. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, www.bls.gov, 7/26/12)

Under President Clinton, The Unemployment Rate Fell From 7.3% To 4.2%. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, www.bls.gov, 7/26/12)

Under President Obama, The Unemployment Rate Has Increased From 7.8% To 8.2%. (Bureau Of Labor Statistics, www.bls.gov, 7/26/12)

Since President Obama Took Office, Median Household Income Has Declined By $4,300. “Yet real median household income in March was down $4,300 since Obama took office in January 2009 and down $2,900 since the June 2009 start of the economic recovery, according to an analysis of census data by Sentier Research, an economic- consulting firm in Annapolis, Maryland.” (Mike Dorning, “Obama Fails To Stem Middle-Class Slide He Blamed On Bush,” Bloomberg, 4/30/12)

Under President Clinton, Median Household Incomes Increased By 14 Percent. “The median household income increased during the two terms of Clinton (by 14 per cent, as we'll see in more detail below), Ronald Reagan (8.1 per cent), and Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford (3.9 per cent). … Under Clinton, the median income increased 14 per cent.” (Ronald Brownstein, “Closing The Book On The Bush Legacy,” The Atlantic, 9/11/09)

President Obama’s 2008 Campaign Sent Out A Press Release That Noted Median Household Income Under President Clinton Increased By $6.200. “Under the Clinton Administration, median household income increased by $6,200.” (Obama For America, “Statement From Senator Obama On Census Income, Health Insurance And Poverty Numbers,” Press Release, 8/26/08)

President Obama Has Presided Over Four Straight Trillion-Dollar Deficits, While President Clinton Presided Over Balanced Budgets:

This Year Will Be President Obama’s “Fourth Straight Year Of Deficits Over $1 Trillion.” “Obama's budget projects that the deficit for the current year will total $1.33 trillion, the fourth straight year of deficits over $1 trillion.” (“Highlights Of Obama's $3.8 Trillion Budget,” The Associated Press, 2/13/12)

Since President Obama Took Office, The National Debt Has Surpassed A Record $15.8 Trillion – An Increase Of More Than $5.26 Trillion. (Department Of The Treasury, www.treasurydirect.gov, 7/26/12)

Under President Obama, America’s 2012 First Quarter GDP Growth Was A “Tepid” 1.9%, Which Was “Too Weak To Lower The Unemployment Rate.” “Applications for unemployment benefits stayed above a level last week that is generally considered too high to lower the unemployment rate. And the annual growth rate for the U.S. economy in the January-March quarter was unchanged at a tepid 1.9 percent. … Growth of around 1.9 percent typically generates roughly 90,000 jobs a month. That's considered too weak to lower the unemployment rate, which was 8.2 percent last month.” (Christopher S. Rugaber, “Tepid Economic Growth Weighs On US Job Market,” The Associated Press, 6/28/12)

Under President Clinton, GDP Growth Averaged 3.5% Per Year. “Clinton campaigned on the economy and had remarkable success. GDP growth during his eight years averaged 3.5% per year, second only to the combined Kennedy/Johnson years and ahead of Jimmy Carter and Reagan.” (Dan Ackman, “Presidents And Prosperity,” Forbes, 7/20/04)

Plus, Obamacare is looming and will cause businesses to close. There are real businesses here in North Louisiana that are preparing to shut down their operations in 2014. You can already see companies, such as several restaurants, hiring only part time employees. And the federal government is trying to sue those companies for doing that to get around the mandate. How can the government tell a private company how that company must employ people? Really?

Tell us Salty, since Obama won't, how raising taxes on small businesses and increasing taxes on everyone through Obamacare is good for the economy? If you need some reference material, HERE:

Individual Mandate Excise Tax(Jan 2014): Starting in 2014, anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following

	1 Adult	2 Adults	3+ Adults
2014	1% AGI/$95	1% AGI/$190	1% AGI/$285
2015	2% AGI/$325	2% AGI/$650	2% AGI/$975
2016 +	2.5% AGI/$695	2.5% AGI/$1390	2.5% AGI/$2085

Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS)

Employer Mandate Tax(Jan 2014): If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. This provision applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer).
Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion/10 years

Surtax on Investment Income ($123 billion/Jan. 2013): This increase involves the creation of a new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income

	Capital Gains	Dividends	Other*
2010-2012	15%	15%	35%
2013+ (current law)	23.8%	43.4%	43.4%
2013+ (Obama budget)	23.8%	23.8%	43.4%

*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens.

Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans($32 bil/Jan 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). For early retirees and high-risk professions exists a higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family). CPI +1 percentage point indexed.

Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax($86.8 bil/Jan 2013): Current law and changes:

	First $200,000 ($250,000 Married) Employer/Employee	All Remaining Wages Employer/Employee
Current Law	1.45%/1.45% 2.9% self-employed	1.45%/1.45% 2.9% self-employed
Obamacare Tax Hike	1.45%/1.45% 2.9% self-employed	1.45%/2.35% 3.8% self-employed

Medicine Cabinet Tax($5 bil/Jan 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin)

HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike($1.4 bil/Jan 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka“Special Needs Kids Tax”($13 bil/Jan 2013): Imposes cap of $2500 (Indexed to inflation after 2013) on FSAs (now unlimited). . There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education.

Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers($20 bil/Jan 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exemptions include items retailing for less than $100.

Raise "Haircut" for Medical Itemized Deduction from 7.5% to 10% of AGI($15.2 bil/Jan 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI; it is waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only.

Tax on Indoor Tanning Services($2.7 billion/July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons

Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D($4.5 bil/Jan 2013)

Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike($0.4 bil/Jan 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services

Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals(Min$/immediate): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS

Tax on Innovator Drug Companies($22.2 bil/Jan 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year.

Tax on Health Insurers($60.1 bil/Jan 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. The stipulation phases in gradually until 2018, and is fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits.

$500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives($0.6 bil/Jan 2013)

Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2(Min$/Jan 2011): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting($17.1 bil/Jan 2012): Requires businesses to send 1099-MISC information tax forms to corporations (currently limited to individuals), a huge compliance burden for small employers

“Black liquor” tax hike(Tax hike of $23.6 billion). This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel.

Codification of the “economic substance doctrine”(Tax hike of $4.5 billion). This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed.

[johnnylightnin]

[saltydawg]

If I remember correctly, when Clinton took Office the economy was going into a recession and the deficit was climbing. He got passed some significant tax increases even though the repubs predicted an even greater recession. In reality, the opposite occurred. Businesses could see a stable fiscal future for the US and there was an uptick in economic recovery that eventually led to a balanced budget. I see the same situation today. Businesses are sitting on a trillion dollars of cash to invest but are afraid because of the huge deficits.

The person responsible for our economic mess today is George W. Bush. I know that and the majority of Americans know that. The major reason why Romney didn't get elected is because his policies are just like GW Bush's policies. They were both born with a silver spoon in their mouths and don't really care about the well-being of the middle class. Their policies are designed to get the top .005% to own an ever increasing slice of America's wealth.

As for the impact of increasing taxes on the top 2% of American taxpayers, I think that they will survive without going hungry or homeless or without medical care, etc. They might have to give up one of their vacation homes, however.

As to the impact of increase taxes for Obamacare, I think that we will have to see how that plays out. One thing is for sure. Don't believe what the repubs or the chamber of commerce or health care executives have to say about the matter. They are all infected with the same negative world view and are just mouthing what they have been told to say.

[T1]

The person responsible for our economic mess today is George W. Bush. I know that and the majority of Americans know that. The major reason why Romney didn't get elected is because his policies are just like GW Bush's policies.

Since the media never got specific about this and Romney never brought it up, I will ask: Which policies of GWB got us in this mess and which of those policies did Romney run on?

[saltydawg]

Since the media never got specific about this and Romney never brought it up, I will ask: Which policies of GWB got us in this mess and which of those policies did Romney run on?

Tax cuts for the rich. Foreign wars. Letting industry regulate itself.

[johnnylightnin]

Tax cuts for the rich. Foreign wars. Letting industry regulate itself.

Sounds like the first four yeas of Obama...except that instead of letting industry regulate itself, he propped up industry with government funds and THEN let them regulate themselves.

[T1]

Tax cuts for the rich. Foreign wars. Letting industry regulate itself.

Letting industry regulate itself might be a good argument, but deregulation occured under Clinton.

[RhythmDawg]

As to the impact of increase taxes for Obamacare, I think that we will have to see how that plays out. One thing is for sure. Don't believe what the repubs or the chamber of commerce or health care executives have to say about the matter. They are all infected with the same negative world view and are just mouthing what they have been told to say.

Salty, I used to, not agree with, but respect what you have to say and enjoy discourse with you. This part of your post very clearly cinches my position on your perception of reality. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about, and do exactly what you just accused the list of people you referenced of doing. I can assure you, no one tells me what to say. I was asked to speak in front of the local tea party group before the election on Obamacare...knowing it was an opportunity to really get them fired up. The first words out of my mouth were 1) I lean conservative. 2) When I comes to my career, I use common sense. 3) If the republicans, democrats, or tea party members have healthcare right, I'd tell you. They don't. 4) I don't think any political party can fix healthcare. And then I explained why.

You are just a "talking head" spewing rhetoric, and nothing more. You THINK you know things. And I expect nothing more or less of you at this point. And I really hate that.

[T1]

The thing about Obamacare is that it is designed to fail. Its purpose is to be so bad that we get single-payer when it collapses.

[johnnylightnin]

The thing about Obamacare is that it is designed to fail. Its purpose is to be so bad that we get single-payer when it collapses.

Exactly right.

[T1]

I was shocked when Obama won re-election. I couldn't understand how it happened. I went through the "we need to change our platform" thing. I think I realize now the main problem with how this could happen. It is too hard to find truth and not enough people are looking for it. I was thinking that everyone who votes is engaged in the process and had the necessary information to cast an informative vote. Then I realized most people don't even follow politics. All they get is what the media tells them (and that includes the comedians, actors, rock stars, etc...). They don't even seek truth. And for that, I blame our education system.

So the 2 main problems, imo, are truth in media and education. We don't need to change our platform, we just need to do a better job of getting the truth out there... somehow. That's going to be tough.

[dawg80]

Dang! even the Twinkie can't survive obummerism (which is a form of socialism)! What's next?

Happened upon a group of school kids, with their teachers and some parents, walking along the street and I took the opportunity to make that observation about the befallen Twinkie, and how it was obummer's fault. The kids were upset....and their teacher aghast! Not that she probably doesn't agree with my political assessment, but now some of those kids will tell their parents: "today in school we were told President Obama has done away with the Twinkie." Their parents will call the school, the principal will call that teacher into the office.... Thus the "if looks could kill" I got from that teacher. I did mouth to her, as they moved on, "Sorry." Not that that helps...

I'm a bad boy.