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Thread: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

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    ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    "The seven Big East Catholic, non-FBS schools met with Big East commissioner Mike Aresco Sunday to express their concerns for the direction of the conference, multiple Big East sources confirmed to ESPN.com Monday."

    http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...tholic-schools
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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    "The basketball schools are not thrilled with Tulane and what they will do to the league's RPI," said a league source from a football-playing member. "They were not all that excited with that addition." The source added that "the basketball schools would have fallen off the ledge if we would have added East Carolina as a full member and what that would have done to the basketball league."

    Here's where the Big East's future stands as of now:

    Non-Football Members
    1. DePaul
    2. Georgetown (Patriot League for football)
    3. Marquette
    4. Providence
    5. St. John's
    6. Seton Hall
    7. Villanova (CAA for football)

    Full Members
    1. UConn
    2. Temple
    3. Cincinnati
    4. Memphis
    5. UCF
    6. South Florida
    7. Tulane
    8. Houston
    9. SMU

    Football-Only Members
    1. Boise State (Big West for non-football)
    2. San Diego State (Big West for non-football)
    3. Navy (Patriot League for non-football)
    4. East Carolina (unknown for non-football)
    Last edited by Dawg06; 12-11-2012 at 01:32 AM.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    We just thought things were crazy before; this is going to make all of the shuffling in the past look like pond water.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    "At issue is whether the Big East basketball-only schools have the power to dissolve the league, and retain all the assets and brand name."

    "The problem for the Catholic seven would be that if they were to venture off without taking the assets and brand name, they would forfeit all the NCAA tournament revenue from the conference and would be left without any start-up to form a new conference."


    So they want to dissolve the league but then retain the assets and brand name. And do it all without getting sued by all of the other institutions involved. Then, what McMurphy doesn't mention, is that if they have to start a new conference - and chances are 99% they would - they would need waivers for the laundry list of NCAA rules that make starting a new league in today's world almost impossible. Without those waivers, no school from the A-10 or MVC will have interest. Good luck with all of that!

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    What a mess
    Good old Memorial Gym

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    This is head spinning.

    Do the old BE basketball members break away to form a basketball only conference?

    If so, do the new members stay in the BE, invite all the old CUSA members and rename the conference?

    Or does the BE merge with the MWC? Does the old CUSA become the new Sun Belt?

    The non-AQ's are all adrift.

    My new top non-AQ conference pipe dream:

    East
    Temple
    UCF
    USF
    Marshall
    ECU
    Memphis
    Tulane
    USM


    West
    Louisiana Tech
    Tulsa
    SMU
    Houston
    Rice
    BSU
    SDSU
    UNLV

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    Quote Originally Posted by RougeDawg View Post
    We just thought things were crazy before; this is going to make all of the shuffling in the past look like pond water.
    Agree. The Big East house of cards is about to collapse.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    I don't think anyone, including the presidents of the basketball schools, knows what will happen with this. The Historian is right about the problems they would have forming a new conference, but trying to leave and take the conference name with you is also pretty brazen.

    Let's just say for a minute that they leave and take the name with them. In that case, I think UConn and Temple might look for other landing spots, simply because of geography. Temple might go back to the MAC (again) and UConn would push hard for the ACC (probably already are). UConn and Temple might also consider joining the basketball schools and dropping football to 1-AA, but that's a big move. The rest of those schools would be geographically close enough to form their own conference but, as The Historian noted, forming a conference is a huge uphill battle. So, those schools would most likely go to the MWC or CUSA. Boise and SDSU wold obviously go to the MWC, but Houston and SMU might go with them for a few reasons.

    1) To save face and not look as if they are moving backward.
    2) SMU will not want to be in a conference with UNT.
    3) Revenue could be better in a TV deal after the dust settles, if they can get the Dallas and Houston markets.

    If/when the time comes that the Big East collapses, the best thing for the MWC and C-USA to do is sit down and talk about the merger that was discussed last year. At least we could hope for conferences that made regional sense.

    Another option is for the Big East to make offers to schools like UNLV, who will improve the RPI in basketball and possibly keep the basketball guys happy, but that also is risky because it increases the western footprint and adds more travel cost for the traditional members...not to mention the new guys like UCF, Tulane, etc.

    Bottom line: Adding just about any basketball school would hurt football, which is driving the bus because of $$. And, adding just about any football school would upset the basketball schools because it probalby hurts baskeball RPI. In other words, the new commish better be a crafty politician, or it's just a matter of time before the thing blows up.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    Quote Originally Posted by EJ View Post
    Agree. The Big East house of cards is about to collapse.
    BYU for FB-only may still come along to keep it afloat.

    BE Football - "Big" Division
    SDSU
    Boise
    BYU
    SMU
    Houston
    Memphis
    Tulane

    BE Football - "East" Division
    UConn
    Temple
    Cincy
    UCF
    USF
    ECU
    Navy

    Of course, none of these were playing BE football 10 years ago. (And only UConn was even playing BE roundball).
    Last edited by Champ967; 12-11-2012 at 10:34 AM.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    Since this is not a collection of schools getting together and trying to form a new conference, but a split in an established and respected one, any chance the BB schools keep the BE title and benefits while the NCAA grants a waiver to the FB schools to form a conference without the penalties specified by the rules?

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    ESPN:

    At issue is whether the Big East basketball-only schools have the power to dissolve the league, and retain all the assets and brand name. A source with knowledge of the situation said that until July 1, the seven have the majority votes and the necessary three-fourths to have controlling power. There are only three remaining football members -- Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida.
    Brett McMurphy:

    Correct RT @Clmssun: @McMurphyESPN #BigEast now has 7 bball voters & 4 all-sports voters; 2/3 majority needed to to dissolve, yes?
    Mike Jensen (retweeted by Brett McMurphy/EPSN):

    Temple AD Bill Bradshaw told me contract with Big East states that Temple became full voting member on July 1, 2012.
    The Big East has seven basketball schools and four all-sports schools as voters (Cincy, UConn, South Florida, and Temple). The seven basketball schools do not have the necessary 2/3 majority vote required to dissolve the conference. If UConn or Cincinnati decide to move to another conference very soon, then the seven basketball schools would have the needed 2/3 majority vote and be able to go forward with a plan to dissolve the conference and retain the assets and the brand name.
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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    To be honest, there comes a point where I think you just let them go. I feel relatively confident that a conference dissolving would not actually result in everyone scrambling to find a home (see below). Letting them go would free up the football-playing schools to invite who they want rather than the extra hoops (haha, hoops) required to get one through the current voting members. It would hurt the bottom line, but would go a great deal towards long-term solvency.

    While I am on the record saying that the conference will not have trouble retaining 12-team membership, that's contingent on the ACC not getting decimated to the point that it's picking off the teams that haven't started playing in the BE yet *and* just because they'll be able to get new members doesn't mean that they will be able to get who is best for the conference.

    These are all potential problems that disappear with a split. I'd sacrifice some of the paycheck for increased assurances of viability. But... I don't think that's what's going to happen. I think everybody's plan is going to be, more or less, to ride this into the sunset regardless of the mess that it creates.

    Quote Originally Posted by hookdown View Post
    Since this is not a collection of schools getting together and trying to form a new conference, but a split in an established and respected one, any chance the BB schools keep the BE title and benefits while the NCAA grants a waiver to the FB schools to form a conference without the penalties specified by the rules?
    That's sort of my thought. I still haven't had anyone actually point out to me what precisely is required to form a new conference, but to the extent that there <i>are</i> steep costs of doing so, there are also likely waivers and this is the sort of situation a waiver was meant for. This isn't the situation that they were trying to prevent, I don't think.

    The big thing is the Big East name. I don't think anyone wants to give it up (see below). Which is Reason #1 I consider a split to be unlikely.

    Quote Originally Posted by TechAlum05 View Post
    The Big East has seven basketball schools and four all-sports schools as voters (Cincy, UConn, South Florida, and Temple). The seven basketball schools do not have the necessary 2/3 majority vote required to dissolve the conference. If UConn or Cincinnati decide to move to another conference very soon, then the seven basketball schools would have the needed 2/3 majority vote and be able to go forward with a plan to dissolve the conference and retain the assets and the brand name.
    The former may be true, but I'm not sure that the latter is if they vote to dissolve the conference. They might be able to vote to rescind the invitations and kick out the football members (or rescind the invitations and force the football members to leave by default). But even that I think is lawsuit territory. Ultimately, I think they would have to be willing to cede the name, assets, and so on, if they wanted to form a new conference.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    Quote Originally Posted by TechAlum05 View Post
    The Big East has seven basketball schools and four all-sports schools as voters (Cincy, UConn, South Florida, and Temple). The seven basketball schools do not have the necessary 2/3 majority vote required to dissolve the conference. If UConn or Cincinnati decide to move to another conference very soon, then the seven basketball schools would have the needed 2/3 majority vote and be able to go forward with a plan to dissolve the conference and retain the assets and the brand name.
    I'm calling it now ... UConn & Temple to ACC. Catholics dissolve conference & reform sans foosball.

    SDSU, Boise & Navy all go back from whence they came.

    Cincy, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU, & ECU have a good cry together.

    parialex buys Champ967 a hat.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967 View Post
    Cincy, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU, & ECU have a good cry together.

    parialex buys Champ967 a hat.
    Only if, after their cry, the remaining schools don't go forward with a new conference and start raiding C*USA again.

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    Re: ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

    Since the basketball schools don't play D-1A football (with the exception of UConn), would it be easier for them to form a new conference in D-1AA? This is a bit of a stretch, but if UConn agreed to drop football to FCS status, joining Villanova, then they would have no FBS teams. I'm not sure if that makes any difference in the NCAA approving such a request. But, I think Parialex is right that no one wants to lose the Big East name.

    If you think about this from a Darwinian standpoint, it makes sense for the ACC to invite UConn and/or Cincy right now, because it would be a kill-shot to the Big East and would put more money on the table for the other "major" conferences.

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