ESPN: Big East fate vexes Catholic schools

[StrayDawg]

06,

I think you're going a little overboard here. UNLV hasn't officially been invited (unless something happened this morning that I don't know about) and there is no guarantee that they would accept. The fans primary concern in Las Vegas is basketball, and they have been quite critical of SDSU for joining the BE as a football only member, because it put their other sports in the Big West, and UNLV fans don't want that. Not saying that it is a deciding factor, since football money is driving realignment, but it is something they would have to consider, because it would anger the fans and probably cost them a lot of season tickets and hurt basketball recruiting. If offered full membership, UNLV would almost certainly accept, but football only membership definitely keeps this from being a done deal.

I also agree that markets matter when negotiating TV deals and recruiting new members, but so does "status". No conference wants to seem desperate to add new teams. They want to hold press conferences and tell people how much they are increasing the quality of their conference, both on the field and off. For that reason, I think La. Tech ranks ahead of several of the schools on your list. Don't forget that presidents vote on this stuff, and our Tier 1 ranking helps a lot. The sky isn't falling, but we definitely need to act on Domangue's idea of proving our market penetration in major markets within a 4-5 hour radius of Ruston.

I'm curious to see if UConn and Cincinnatti can pull off this new conference they are talking about. If they are serious about that, and this isn't just talk to try and force other moves, then the whole thing could change. UNLV would love to be in a conference that allows them to play basketball witn Cincy, UConn, Memphis, etc. while still getting good money from a football deal. I'm sure we would like to have a piece of that too. We'll see.......

For now, I hope that Dr. Guice and our AD (whether that is Bruce or someone else) are paying close attention and working the phones.

[Dawg06]

06,

I think you're going a little overboard here. UNLV hasn't officially been invited (unless something happened this morning that I don't know about) and there is no guarantee that they would accept. The fans primary concern in Las Vegas is basketball, and they have been quite critical of SDSU for joining the BE as a football only member, because it put their other sports in the Big West, and UNLV fans don't want that. Not saying that it is a deciding factor, since football money is driving realignment, but it is something they would have to consider, because it would anger the fans and probably cost them a lot of season tickets and hurt basketball recruiting. If offered full membership, UNLV would almost certainly accept, but football only membership definitely keeps this from being a done deal.

I also agree that markets matter when negotiating TV deals and recruiting new members, but so does "status". No conference wants to seem desperate to add new teams. They want to hold press conferences and tell people how much they are increasing the quality of their conference, both on the field and off. For that reason, I think La. Tech ranks ahead of several of the schools on your list. Don't forget that presidents vote on this stuff, and our Tier 1 ranking helps a lot. The sky isn't falling, but we definitely need to act on Domangue's idea of proving our market penetration in major markets within a 4-5 hour radius of Ruston.

I'm curious to see if UConn and Cincinnatti can pull off this new conference they are talking about. If they are serious about that, and this isn't just talk to try and force other moves, then the whole thing could change. UNLV would love to be in a conference that allows them to play basketball witn Cincy, UConn, Memphis, etc. while still getting good money from a football deal. I'm sure we would like to have a piece of that too. We'll see.......

For now, I hope that Dr. Guice and our AD (whether that is Bruce or someone else) are paying close attention and working the phones.

The football-only Big East and full Big West membership for UNLV would most likely only be for one season. The Catholic schools are stuck in the Big East until July 1, 2015. After they leave, then the football-only schools would become full members.

New Mexico would be the only relevant MBB program remaining in the MW, and UNLV would have SDSU in the Big West. None of those other MW schools would put butts in the T&M Center save for Nevada which they would schedule OOC. The Big East would have UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple, and San Diego State.

The Big East invited Boise State. They have no academic standards anymore. Of that group I listed, we rank in the middle third academically. We aren't being compared to Sun Belt academics anymore.

That new conference UConn and Cincy threw out there isn't happening. The only way that happens is the Catholic schools dissolve the Big East, but they just decided to leave.

After the past month, I have zero confidence that our admin (old or new) can reel in a Big East invite.

But like I said above, I'm not saying the sky is falling. I'm ok with it as long as ULL doesn't get a C-USA invite.

[hookdown]

New Mexico would be the only relevant MBB program remaining in the MW....

Any chance the new Big Football East takes New Mexico just to kill MWC basketball?

[Dawg06]

Any chance the new Big Football East takes New Mexico just to kill MWC basketball?

Not for that reason, but I can definitely see them inviting UNM. They'd bring a nationally relevant MBB program, a very strong fan base, #57 metro area, and a bowl game against the Pac-12.

I'd also think that UMass would be high on their list. #10 metro area.

The Big East is fighting for relevance on the national stage.

- They added the only available nationally relevant football program in Boise State. Navy could be considered a national program, but I'm not convinced they join.

- They would feature nationally relevant MBB programs in UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis, SDSU, and UNLV. Throw in UNM, and that hoops lineup would put the Pac-12 and Big Priest to shame.

- They will feature schools from some major markets: #4 Dallas, #5 Houston, #6 Philadelphia, #7 Washington?, #17 San Diego, #18 Tampa, #20 Baltimore, #26 Orlando, #27 Cincinnati, #30 Las Vegas, #41 Memphis, #45 Hartford, #46 New Orleans, #55 Fresno, #85 Boise, #220 Greenville

- 16 bowl games in their future markets: Cotton, Heart of Dallas, Armed Forces, Car Care, Holiday, Poinsettia, Beef 'O' Brady's, Potato, Sugar, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Russell Athletic, Liberty, Capital One, Outback, Military?

[PawDawg]

'06, good work, but you aren't allowing for the teams that are still to leave the BE for the ACC. UConn and Cincy will be the first two (or last two) to go ACC. Of course they still have major media markets they are shooting for.

Who is engineering the TV package for them? Is there an individual who is heading that up?

[domangue]

Not for that reason, but I can definitely see them inviting UNM. They'd bring a nationally relevant MBB program, a very strong fan base, #57 metro area, and a bowl game against the Pac-12.

I'd also think that UMass would be high on their list. #10 metro area.

The Big East is fighting for relevance on the national stage.

- They added the only available nationally relevant football program in Boise State. Navy could be considered a national program, but I'm not convinced they join.

- They would feature nationally relevant MBB programs in UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis, SDSU, and UNLV. Throw in UNM, and that hoops lineup would put the Pac-12 and Big Priest to shame.

- They will feature schools from some major markets: #4 Dallas, #5 Houston, #6 Philadelphia, #7 Washington?, #17 San Diego, #18 Tampa, #20 Baltimore, #26 Orlando, #27 Cincinnati, #30 Las Vegas, #41 Memphis, #45 Hartford, #46 New Orleans, #55 Fresno, #85 Boise, #220 Greenville

- 16 bowl games in their future markets: Cotton, Heart of Dallas, Armed Forces, Car Care, Holiday, Poinsettia, Beef 'O' Brady's, Potato, Sugar, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Russell Athletic, Liberty, Capital One, Outback, Military?

Come on man, I understand you are a glass empty kind of guy, but at some point, as they reach down into the bowels of media markets...

they will at some point hit #83 SHREVEPORT.

Bigger than: #91 El Paso, #108 Reno, #112 Boise, #167 Hattiesburg.

[Now, I'm going off of the official Nielsen TV Households rankings, not sure what numbers you're using??]

Again, by all means I'm not saying we are the prettiest girl at the dance, but you've got to give us a little more credit. If there were *NO* other factors besides market they were looking at, #220 Greenville (ECU) wouldn't have happened!

[Champ967]

'06, good work, but you aren't allowing for the teams that are still to leave the BE for the ACC. UConn and Cincy will be the first two (or last two) to go ACC.

I think UConn, Cincy, and Temple will get scooped up by ACC/Big10/Big12. That's when SDSU, Bwaz & Navy will bail.

So then you're left with UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU & ECU.

Do yall really feel those 7 will be in a position to raid CUSA? Cuz I question that.

[domangue]

I think UConn, Cincy, and Temple will get scooped up by ACC/Big10/Big12. That's when SDSU, Bwaz & Navy will bail.

So then you're left with UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU & ECU.

Do yall really feel those 7 will be in a position to raid CUSA? Cuz I question that.

This is the rub to me with his logic--

Say SDSU and BSU leave... I would take this to mean they'd punt on the whole coast-to-coast thing.... a focus on Central/Eastern time zones.

If those SEVEN remaining schools you listed decided to cherry pick another *FIVE* teams from CUSA, with a regional focus in play, I don't see how/why we wouldn't be in the mix. UAB? Marshall? UTEP (with a smaller market than S'port, anyway)? Any of the other metro teams like FIU, NTU are overlapping. Unless they are willing to dig down to the start-ups UTSA/Charlotte?

If the logic were such that they cared about absouletly NOTHING but media markets... they'd be raiding the MAC left and right before touching a whole lot more of CUSA teams (Toledo, NIU, etc).

[PawDawg]

If the logic were such that they cared about absouletly NOTHING but media markets... they'd be raiding the MAC left and right before touching a whole lot more of CUSA teams.

The MAC, media market, and logic should never be used in the same thought process.:icon_wink:

We can't get a $20M project off the ground and we have an AD who can't get along with his southern minded business associates in Shreveport or Memphis. Media Market is not our biggest problem right now.

[inudesu]

I think UConn, Cincy, and Temple will get scooped up by ACC/Big10/Big12. That's when SDSU, Bwaz & Navy will bail.

So then you're left with UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU & ECU.

Do yall really feel those 7 will be in a position to raid CUSA? Cuz I question that.

Sure they would. That's the base of the previous CUSA.

You think Tech, USM, Tulsa, or any other current CUSA wouldn't rather join those schools than the other current CUSA schools? Especially if the best ones left over were all leaving together?

Wouldn't Tech rather join UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU, & ECU and 4 of the other better programs (say, Tulsa, Rice, USM, and Marshall) in CUSA? I'd prefer that to what we've got now. And that same logic would apply to any current CUSA team with or without Tech in the mix.

[StrayDawg]

This is the rub to me with his logic--

Say SDSU and BSU leave... I would take this to mean they'd punt on the whole coast-to-coast thing.... a focus on Central/Eastern time zones.

If those SEVEN remaining schools you listed decided to cherry pick another *FIVE* teams from CUSA, with a regional focus in play, I don't see how/why we wouldn't be in the mix. UAB? Marshall? UTEP (with a smaller market than S'port, anyway)? Any of the other metro teams like FIU, NTU are overlapping. Unless they are willing to dig down to the start-ups UTSA/Charlotte?

If the logic were such that they cared about absouletly NOTHING but media markets... they'd be raiding the MAC left and right before touching a whole lot more of CUSA teams (Toledo, NIU, etc).

I agree with that statement. That's sort of what I meant in my earlier post about our Tier 1 status and presidents voting. Perception and status are almost as important to these guys as markets, and they will not want to take startups, even if they are in big markets. I just don't see that happening...then again I didn't see a lot of things happening with all of this realignment.

In the last 12 months, more than 50 NCAA schools have changed conferences, or announced that they will change conferences. That's about 20%. Crazy stuff.

[Champ967]

Sure they would. That's the base of the previous CUSA.

You think Tech, USM, Tulsa, or any other current CUSA wouldn't rather join those schools than the other current CUSA schools? Especially if the best ones left over were all leaving together?

Wouldn't Tech rather join UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, Houston, SMU, & ECU and 4 of the other better programs (say, Tulsa, Rice, USM, and Marshall) in CUSA? I'd prefer that to what we've got now. And that same logic would apply to any current CUSA team with or without Tech in the mix.

Whether the Big-Leftovers pick Tech and other CUSA teams to join them, or whether they are compelled by lack of other options to come back to CUSA, makes no difference to me.

I just fail to understand why we're hoping for to SDSU and Boise to stay in the BigEast, esp when there's a likelihood that Cincy, UConn & Temple are eventually going to get raided.

[inudesu]

Whether the Big-Leftovers pick Tech and other CUSA teams to join them, or whether they are compelled by lack of other options to come back to CUSA, makes no difference to me.

I just fail to understand why we're hoping for to SDSU and Boise to stay in the BigEast, esp when there's a likelihood that Cincy, UConn & Temple are eventually going to get raided.

The reason that some would be concerned about that is the possibility of the Big-leftovers taking 5 teams from CUSA that don't include Tech. In that scenario we're in the Sun Belt by default. But it's a less geographically friendly SB than the one we've been avoiding all these years.

If the BE took Tulsa, USM, Marshall, UAB, and ODU then look at what we'd be left with: UNC-Charlotte, FIU, FAU, UTEP, Rice, UNT, UTSA, MTSU plus whatever we could scrounge from the Sunbelt and FCS. Or the BE could take UNC-Charlotte or UTSA for their markets and then Tulsa and UTEP could join the MWC. Leaving us with even fewer (and crappier) conference-mates.

But I'm not sweating it. Not yet.

[hookdown]

If the BE took Tulsa, USM, Marshall, UAB, and ODU.....

Might swap out ODU for Rice. While this is the worst case, I think it might be the most likely as well. Sure would have helped to get to the Orange Bowl this year. Or we need to string together several 12/13 win seasons in a row, ala Boise.

[HogDawg]

This is the rub to me with his logic--

Say SDSU and BSU leave... I would take this to mean they'd punt on the whole coast-to-coast thing.... a focus on Central/Eastern time zones.

If those SEVEN remaining schools you listed decided to cherry pick another *FIVE* teams from CUSA, with a regional focus in play, I don't see how/why we wouldn't be in the mix. UAB? Marshall? UTEP (with a smaller market than S'port, anyway)? Any of the other metro teams like FIU, NTU are overlapping. Unless they are willing to dig down to the start-ups UTSA/Charlotte?

If the logic were such that they cared about absouletly NOTHING but media markets... they'd be raiding the MAC left and right before touching a whole lot more of CUSA teams (Toledo, NIU, etc).

Great post. This one makes the most sense.