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Thread: Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

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    Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

    OK..........this could get interesting. However that's a lot of "candle power" trying to come to any agreement. Hard to do with these mega egos but you never know. Anther plan to push the "little people" down?

    BIG 12 CONSIDERING PARTNERSHIP WITH ACC, OTHER LEAGUES



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    Re: Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

    I really think that the Big 12 ought to have taken advantage of the GOR opportunity to soak up the eight most desirable ACC schools and splitting into two divisions of 9. The increased exit fees for the ACC made that more difficult. But what this actually tells me is that the Big 12 really doesn't want to go beyond its current members. Not doubting that they would take FSU and one other, but I don't think the <i>enthusiasm</i> is really there. The payoffs for a championship game are (by Big 12 standards) meager and it's undetermined whether the lack of a championship game would help or hurt their chances of getting into the tournament.
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    Re: Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

    Why should the Big 12 expand --and have MORE mouths to feed? The Big 12 is already earning more money PER SCHOOL than any other conference, without diluting the product. Today's Dallas Morning News:

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/col...in-a-hurry.ece

    Most interesting fact:
    "Forbes magazine reported recently that members (of the Big 12) will average $26.2M this year from TV contracts, bowls and NCAA Tournament revenue -- MORE than any other conference."
    Big 12 athletic directors will spend Monday in Las Colinas pondering expansion scenarios from the possible to the unthinkable.

    “I could see a lot of hypotheticals being considered,” said one source familiar with the agenda. Another source likened the sessions that will continue Tuesday with scheduling and bowls to a Big 12 “think tank.”

    With 10 teams, the slimmed-down Big 12 is in no danger of shrinking. Members have granted their TV rights to the conference for the life of lucrative 13-year TV deals with Fox and ESPN. Schools are effectively locked in place.

    “For us, it’s all about looking at the bottom line and looking at the quality of competition,” Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby told “The Ticket” KTCK-AM (1310). “We feel pretty good about 10 now.” The competition was a reference to the round-robin schedule in football and double round robin in basketball.

    The bottom line has become lucrative. Forbes magazine reported recently that members will average $26.2 million this year from TV contracts, bowls and NCAA Tournament revenue — more than any other conference.

    Stability has not taken hold elsewhere. The recent acquisition of Maryland and Rutgers by the Big Ten has again shaken the college landscape.
    One day, a relative calm existed. The next, schools along the East Coast were in play for the Big Ten.

    Texas Tech athletic director Kirby Hocutt told RedRaiderSports.com that the Big Ten expansion made a statement that the “sand shifting beneath our feet is not over yet.”

    At the recent NCAA Convention in Grapevine, Bowlsby suggested that his conference would talk about the advantages of the current size vs. 12, 14 or even 16 members.

    While Bowlsby remains skeptical that bigger is better, even the small acknowledgement reignited rumors. One had the Big Ten, SEC and Big 12 raiding the vulnerable ACC for as many as 10 teams. Such a move would go against every signal Bowlsby has sent as commissioner.In fact, Bowlsby confirmed “exploratory discussions regarding partnerships and collaborations” with three other conferences on scheduling and marketing, including the ACC. He cautioned that none was close to fruition.

    A slow-motion version of the same ACC scenario might be something for ADs to game plan. What if Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany, who has coveted ACC schools like North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Tech and even new member Pittsburgh, goes rogue and plucks two schools? The Big Ten would move to super-conference status with 16 members.

    SEC counterpart Mike Slive would probably respond by adding two more, Virginia Tech and one other. Because of a “gentlemen’s agreement” in the league, the SEC would be unlikely to add schools in states where it already has members. Florida State, Miami, Clemson and Georgia Tech (if not taken by the Big Ten) could be left in a floundering conference.

    Imagine two or four or even six schools desperately calling the Big 12 seeking refuge and an immediate answer. The Big 12 would have to be prepared for a move large enough to reshape college sports.

    Bowlsby told The Ticket on Wednesday that he was “not convinced based on my conversations with both commissioners that the move to 16 is in any way imminent.”

    Two days later, The Columbus Dispatch published minutes of an Ohio State athletic council meeting from December, after the Big Ten’s addition of Maryland and Rutgers. Ohio State president Gordon Gee told the group that “there has been ongoing discussion” about expansion and that he “believes there is movement towards three or four super conferences that are made up of 16-20 teams.”

    Other scenarios could be in play, too. What if the majority of the conferences in the coming four-team football playoff mandate a conference title game as a condition for selection?

    While the Big 12 seems set on 10, things could change. In an interview before the NCAA Convention, Texas men’s athletic director DeLoss Dodds, who favors 10 schools for now, acknowledged “there may be some thought of 12.”
    Last month at the Heart of Dallas Bowl, Oklahoma State football coach Mike Gundy endorsed additional schools in the Big 12.

    “Well, I think we need to expand,” Gundy said. “I said it last year and everybody laughed at me at the Big 12 meetings. I think other people are trying to expand, and I think if you don’t [expand] you get caught behind the 8-ball, in my opinion.”
    Follow Chuck Carlton on Twitter at ChuckCarltonDMN.




    Breaking down conference revenues


    Revenue for the major conferences from bowl games, the NCAA basketball tournament and TV broadcast rights, as reported this month by Forbes magazine:
    Conference , Bowl , NCAA , TV , Total , Per school
    Big Ten , $40M , $20M , $250M , $310M , $25.83M
    Pac-12 , $39M , $14M , $250M , $303M , $25.25M

    MAC , $35M , $17M , $240M , $292M , $24.33M

    SEC , $50M , $15M , $205M , $270M , $22.50M
    Big 12 , $42M , $20M , $200M , $262M , $26.20M


    Bottom line: I think the Big 12 will sit back and wait to see if opportunity knocks before doing anything. If a Florida St and/or Clemson proactively ask to join the Big 12, the Big 12 will probably open the door. However, lesser programs can forget about it, because the Big 12 is very stable for now.


    HD

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    Re: Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

    HD:

    This is a very good article from the DMN. But there will likely be one more point of discussion at these meetings, at least privately for many of these administrators. And that's the fact that if the ACC is able to launch its own network, the Big 12 will be woefully lacking in TV payments per school in a very short period of time - within the next 5 years.

    The SEC's stand alone network becomes a reality in August, 2014. And the Big 10 will have its next TV deal in place in August, 2017, along with additional markets in which to expand its own network. The Pac 12 launched its own network this past August. An ACC Network will take 5 years to plan and implement but, once in place, should be incredibly lucrative.

    Only one school in the Big 12 is going to be able to generate the kind of revenue the members of each of the other 4 conference will be able to generate, and that's Texas. Even Oklahoma will not be able to keep up long term.

    Because of the Grant of Rights the Big 12 members signed away not long ago, the Big 12 is a very stable league. But, without a league-wide network, 8 or 9 of its members will fall behind financially - and quickly.

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    Re: Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

    Historian,

    I think it's pretty clear that these big conferences want to expand to 16 members with the new additions being located in large markets that expand the conference footprint for their TV networks.

    Assuming the ACC loses 2 members each to the B1G and SEC, UConn and Cincinnati would likely be the obvious picks to reload to 12 football members plus Notre Dame for non-football.

    After that, the options aren't very good.
    - Temple is probably the next best pick. That's 13 football, 14 basketball.

    Then what?
    - BYU is wayyyy outside the ACC's footprint.
    - South Florida and UCF would be the next best candidates, but I don't see anyway that FSU or Miami lets them in.
    - Memphis football? Yikes!!!!!
    - UMass? They fit, but they are a recent FCS call-up that doesn't even have a football stadium. However, UConn was in a similar situation, and they've done just fine.
    - Navy as football-only to offset Notre Dame? I doubt Navy would accept.
    - East Carolina? No way Tobacco Road would let them in.
    - Buffalo? They fit, but they've never been competitive in anything.
    - Houston and SMU? Are they really worth it? Texas is way out of their footprint, but they both offer large markets.
    - Old Dominion if Virginia and Virginia Tech both leave? An infant program with a tiny stadium.
    - Tulane? Yikes!!!!
    - St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova as non-football members with Notre Dame? Would non-football schools add enough revenue?

    How would the ACC maximize the ACC Network?

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    Re: Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg06 View Post
    Historian,

    I think it's pretty clear that these big conferences want to expand to 16 members with the new additions being located in large markets that expand the conference footprint for their TV networks.

    Assuming the ACC loses 2 members each to the B1G and SEC, UConn and Cincinnati would likely be the obvious picks to reload to 12 football members plus Notre Dame for non-football.

    After that, the options aren't very good.
    - Temple is probably the next best pick. That's 13 football, 14 basketball.

    Then what?
    - BYU is wayyyy outside the ACC's footprint.
    - South Florida and UCF would be the next best candidates, but I don't see anyway that FSU or Miami lets them in.
    - Memphis football? Yikes!!!!!
    - UMass? They fit, but they are a recent FCS call-up that doesn't even have a football stadium. However, UConn was in a similar situation, and they've done just fine.
    - Navy as football-only to offset Notre Dame? I doubt Navy would accept.
    - East Carolina? No way Tobacco Road would let them in.
    - Buffalo? They fit, but they've never been competitive in anything.
    - Houston and SMU? Are they really worth it? Texas is way out of their footprint, but they both offer large markets.
    - Old Dominion if Virginia and Virginia Tech both leave? An infant program with a tiny stadium.
    - Tulane? Yikes!!!!
    - St. John's, Georgetown, and Villanova as non-football members with Notre Dame? Would non-football schools add enough revenue?

    How would the ACC maximize the ACC Network?


    This is one of the reasons why I believe Houston and SMU are sitting in a good spot. If the ACC ends up replacing 4 defectors who are leaving for the Big 10 and SEC, and then need to get to 16, they would obviously turn to UConn and Cincy. I agree with you that Temple is the next best pick.

    Past that, if you are looking to untapped markets for an ACCN, the combination of Houston and SMU could get the ACCN onto basic cable in Houston and Dallas. Past that, I could easily see an ODU replacing the departing Virginia schools. I don't like UMass for the Big East, but you are correct in that they are a lot like UConn. If you pumped an additional $35 million per year into their athletic department and put them into the ACC, they would look a lot different.

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    Re: Big 12 considering partnership with acc, other leagues

    And to add to the 5 conferences/80 schools scenario - The Big 12 really doesn't want to expand, but long-term it may be forced into it.

    I could easily see the LongHorn Network going away if it means the creation of a Big 12 Network that would pay every school what Texas is slated to make with the LHN. Because it holds the rights to the LHN, ESPN would have to be a TV partner for a conference network. I could easily see Fox being involved, as well. But each would stand to make much more money in a 49/51 split with the schools.

    At the same time, the TV partners will pressure the Big 12 to expand in the same way the ACC would have to expand. It's one of the reasons why schools like USM and Tech should be fighting tooth and nail for the Big East. Because that's where those schools will come from. There really won't be any alternatives if the ACC survives with only four more defections.

    I could see a scenario 10 years from now where the Big 12 will be at 16. And not really by choice. And for the most part, you can throw academic considerations out the window.

    The same may hold true for the Pac 12. I don't know as much about their network, but I know a BYU alum and big benefactor who believes that is what BYU will hold out for. It's also one of the reasons you've seen Vegas business community come out with potential stadium plans. They all believe the Pac 12 will eventually go to 16.

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