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Thread: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Just because something is legal, does not make it a right. Heterosexual couples don't have the right to get married, but it is legal for them to do so. So the argument should be whether there is a social benefit to changing the law to include new definitions of marriage. Everything else is superfluous.

    To me many of the issues that have risen to national/federal attention were never intended by our founding fathers to be federal issues. They are state issues. Social legislation by and far was considered a state level topic, not federal. Most of what divides our nation are social issues that can be tied to a variety of issues from cultural, religious, and geographical differences. Flush all of these social issues from the federal docket and put them back to the state level.

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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    agree

  3. #33
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker


    Romans 1:

    24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen
    26
    For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
    27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

    Seems pretty clear to me, too, dogbone.

  4. #34
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post
    Freedom of WHAT religion? Only yours? Some believe that God/Jesus said nothing about Homosexuality and interpretation has changed that. Do you go by the shellfish rule and do you stone your neighbor's daughter too?

    Marriage is based on religion, so it has woven it's way to legal rights. If marriage is based on religion (as it started out), how did we justify no interracial marriage? Did we redifine it or clarify it? The people of that time truly believed it was a sin. Most do not now.

    Like it or not, by government giving certain privileges to married couples, it is a legal institution. Even if it were not, many people have a different view of what God stated and what Jesus stated in the New Testiment. So, exanding "marriage" to same gender couples is an expansion of religeous freedom - not a narrowing of it.

    As for as the kicker, I am proud of him for breaking down another wall against discrimination.

    No sir. Not "my" religion, not anyone's religion. It is not about what I like or dislike. It is not what "view" someone has. It is God's Word. Not mine, not yours. If what I stated is wrong, God is a liar if the Bible is His Word. "The people of that time truly believed it was a sin. Most do not now." Every man on Earth can believe "it" is okay now. God hasn't changed, and, again, it is His word not mine, regardless of whether I believe it or not. My point is about what God defines marriage as. He must be the "discriminator." He says a man and a woman become one flesh, and uses that definition to define His own relationship with His church. He also told His people for a man to lay with another as with a woman is an abomination, just like a man laying with a woman outside of a Holy union. He said it, more than once. Don't mess with marriage. He frowns upon such. So far as "inner racial marriage", another re-definition, within the human race, a man and a woman in wed lock is a man and a woman in wedlock. Your point?

  5. #35
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDBLUE View Post
    No sir. Not "my" religion, not anyone's religion. It is not about what I like or dislike. It is not what "view" someone has. It is God's Word. Not mine, not yours. If what I stated is wrong, God is a liar if the Bible is His Word. "The people of that time truly believed it was a sin. Most do not now." Every man on Earth can believe "it" is okay now. God hasn't changed, and, again, it is His word not mine, regardless of whether I believe it or not. My point is about what God defines marriage as. He must be the "discriminator." He says a man and a woman become one flesh, and uses that definition to define His own relationship with His church. He also told His people for a man to lay with another as with a woman is an abomination, just like a man laying with a woman outside of a Holy union. He said it, more than once. Don't mess with marriage. He frowns upon such. So far as "inner racial marriage", another re-definition, within the human race, a man and a woman in wed lock is a man and a woman in wedlock. Your point?
    Those that quote the Bible just are hilarious on this.
    1. You are picking and choosing what you want to follow.
    2. You are picking Old Testament quotes almost every time - not what Jesus corrected.
    3. You are not taking into account the translation from Hebrew, Roman, to English, and then other versions like King James.
    4. You are imposing YOUR religeon on others and taking away other's freedom.
    5. You are not taking into account how many times Christians have been proven wrong and later admitted it (just go back to the 1960's, but you can go back to the Spanish Inquisition, if you wish.
    The key is that the only way we know what God would want is, not only, to read the Bible but through prayers and a personal connection to Jesus (IF you are Christian). We, instead, follow social cues and change our mind like the wind. Ask a devout Christian from the 1600's how they lived compared to how we live - not just on this issue, but all issues.

    We should all get rid of our TV's, radio's, cars, etc... Those are of the devil. And don't even go to the issue of capitalism with the Bible. There is a tiny bit in there about it, but mostly socialism in the New Testament. Of course, we could all interpret that differently. I have a feeling we all interpret it in a way that justifies our life.

    I believe the Bible is the Word of God and I believe in Christ, because I am a Christian. I believe it was meant as a guide, though, and has historical cultural references in it that do not mean the same in our world today. I know that some of you are fundamentalist and want to follow it word for word, but if you REALLY read it, that is impossible in today's world.

    Lastly, why should goverment give special privileges to marriage? At the point that happens, it becomes discrimination for those that cannot take part.

  6. #36
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts [desires] of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."



    Satan is a liar. He speaks through his children.

  7. #37
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by nadB View Post
    John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts [desires] of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."


    Satan is a liar. He speaks through his children.
    I agree and Satan has done so over and over through the Christian right throughout history. Just take a look at the historical facts. We are all in danger, when we single out a group of people that we do not believe are equal to us or should have the same rights, privilages, or advantages in life. That is not what Jesus taught, yet we get pulled in by false profits. We are all part of our culture and, even, geography, to some point. It is only when we seek our own relationship with God that we are able to see the real truth - not through a preacher or what we have been taught to believe all our life. I am not saying that I have all the answers. I try and struggle like every one of you do. I try to keep my heart in the right place, though, and accept others for who they are - no matter the religion, faith, culture, or differences from me. As long as I do that and try my best to treat everyone equal and help make the case for their equality under the law, as well, I am feeling pretty good about my path.

  8. #38
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts [desires] of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."



    Satan is a liar. He speaks through his children.

  9. #39
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by DJDAWG View Post
    Classic liberal response, don't debate the point. Just make a condescending remark about the speaker. And, I seriously don't like your insinuation that I'm racist or against female suffrage. Argue the point, which is the "Equal Protection" clause as it relates to the definition of marriage.

    Also, read the whole post. I intentionally quoted Justice Sotomayor, probably more socialist than you are.
    The debate was implicit. I criticized the slippery slope argument, not you. I'm not sure why you infer I insinuated you're a racist when I said "I can imagine a time when people said, "if we allow interracial couples to marry...: or "if we allow women to vote..." Clearly that was not a comment about you.

    And thanks for not stooping to condescension by calling me a socialist. That would have been tacky.

  10. #40
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by nadB View Post
    John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts [desires] of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."



    Satan is a liar. He speaks through his children.
    I just agreed with you. Gotta run. Have a great day and let's get back on sports. Hope a few people can see the rational side of this. I can tell you one thing - I am a Christian and my son is a Christian. I will continue to defend him and not let hateful people hurt him EVER. So, I don't challenge your belief system. You have the right to that. You need to read up on history, though. You will see how man times man was wrong in what we did in Christ's name.

    Over and out! Hope you have an awesome day and may the Lord be with you and all of us.

  11. #41
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post

    Lastly, why should goverment give special privileges to marriage? At the point that happens, it becomes discrimination for those that cannot take part.
    Special privileges to marriage have been encouraged by governments throughout history to encourage a steady stream of offspring that are then reared in the civic and cultural traditions of the community. The secondary purpose of taxes (or the breaks given in paying them), beyond raising revenue for the function of government, serve to encourage or discourage certain behaviors. Raise taxes on tobacco to reduce smoking and pay for increased health burdens on the society. Tax breaks for birthing children within marriage was to encourage the growth of the nuclear family and encourage reproduction so at a minimum you have population replacement if not growth each generation. Otherwise there is no reason for the federal government to be involved in marriage at any level.

    Some mentioned the slippery slope earlier. Well here we are. Progressives pushed for the income tax to added to the US Constitution. Ever since then the federal government has used those tax dollars as a hammer to pound and bend the states into giving the federal government more and more power over many different areas. And little by little things crop up like homosexual marriage as a federal issue because the federal government has over stepped its bounds time and time again by becoming involved in issues it was not intended to be a part of. Get rid of the federal income tax and all of its breaks, etc. You would shrink the size of federal government and increase the role of state governments over most domestic issues and we would have much less controversy in this country. But no one wants to take on that. So we get sidetracked every year over social issues "facing" the country instead of real tangible and productive measure that will would allow citizens to pursue happiness. Both the left and right feel that the culture and future of America is under attack by the other side. Really what you have is the growth of sectionalism again. There would be a whole lot more of blue and red spread around the country if the social issues were largely reduced to state issues in my opinion.

  12. #42
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post
    I just agreed with you. Gotta run. Have a great day and let's get back on sports. Hope a few people can see the rational side of this. I can tell you one thing - I am a Christian and my son is a Christian. I will continue to defend him and not let hateful people hurt him EVER. So, I don't challenge your belief system. You have the right to that. You need to read up on history, though. You will see how man times man was wrong in what we did in Christ's name.

    Over and out! Hope you have an awesome day and may the Lord be with you and all of us.
    I don't try to make God to fit my image. That would be ignorant of me, an vain. One more time, it is His Word, not "my" opinion, that counts. Sorry you have to turn defending God's Word in to "hate." You don't have to defend your son, or my cousin from me. I love the sinner just like God does. So far as doing "wrong" in Christ's name - that is exactly what every Christian is doing, "wrong" when they try to compromise His Word. Yes, the church has been good at that and we are paying the price. Like I said before, your argument is not with me, it is His Word, not my idea. He defined marriage, I didn't. He defined sin, and I was guilty of it, still am apart from grace and faith in Him and His Word. God bless us all to know and pursue His will, not our own.

  13. #43
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by maverick View Post
    And thanks for not stooping to condescension by calling me a socialist. That would have been tacky.
    ha ha...good job Didn't even realize I did that. Might be a good reason why I rarely post.

  14. #44
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    Quote Originally Posted by champion110 View Post
    I just agreed with you. Gotta run. Have a great day and let's get back on sports. Hope a few people can see the rational side of this. I can tell you one thing - I am a Christian and my son is a Christian. I will continue to defend him and not let hateful people hurt him EVER. So, I don't challenge your belief system. You have the right to that. You need to read up on history, though. You will see how man times man was wrong in what we did in Christ's name.
    And THIS is the problem I have with people like you. Just because people believe differently than you do about THIS SUBJECT, it doesn't necessarily mean they are HATERS. Quite the contrary, when you get frustrated and jump to a silly conclusion like that, you sound like "a hater" yourself (which I sincerely doubt). And it is all because you are simply not getting your way. It's very similar to calling someone a "racist" simply because they don't agree with racial quotas.

    Oh...and don't lecture us to "read up on history". I'm sure some on this board know just as much --or more-- about "history" than you do.

  15. #45
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    Re: NFL’s first openly gay player could be MTSU kicker

    The MTSU kicker was neither drafted nor signed as an undrafted free agent.

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