Constitution Party or Jefferson Republican Party

[ChipDog]

We should have never allowed our country to have nuclear weapons, military aircraft, tanks, etc.

Just speaking for myself: my father was on a ship in the Panama Canal when he got word of the Nuclear Bomb being dropped on Japan. He had been in North Africa, then Sicily then Italy, and then they were told to load up, but not told where they were going. He said his whole outfit assumed they were going to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. I don't know if my dad would have survived or not (I had not yet been conceived), but the US high command was, I believe, projecting over 250,000 US casualties. So because of those bombs, instead of landing on the Japanese mainland under fire he got to come home and start a family. Wars are horrible and no one should have to endure such, but I am very proud of my father's service. We have a treasured letter signed by President Ronald Reagan in thanks of his service on behalf of the US, and a flag flown over a US building that was provided by the US for my father's funeral, and his uniform with decorations, and most importantly - we had my dad until 1985. So I'm glad we developed those nuclear weapons.

[hookdown]

....the US high command was, I believe, projecting over 250,000 US casualties.....

And a million plus Japanese....

[DawgyNWindow]

Unless of course, you were Black. Or Native American. Or female. Or poor.

I don't guess I could convince any of y'all that the Founders of this nation were just regular dudes -- muddling through the circumstances if their time, watching out for their shared interests, and covering their asses along the way?

Just like, say ... you or me.

Regular dudes? Of course. They did however have the brilliance to create a rather remarkable document that has done a really good job for the last 200+ years. And it was cultural norms that impacted those groups you singled out (except the poor.....there will always be poor people, but in America you can change that). Heck, why don't we just crown Obama as king and go the royalty route if we're going to minimize the US Constitution. If he was King, there'd be no more issues with his numerous scandals, he could get everything done that he wants to do, we could turn in our guns and he could tax us as much as he wished, he could proclaim a national religion and chop off your head if you disagreed, he could end all this fake new stuff and just have one paper coming from the confines of his office, and maybe he could move a few of the blue helmeted guys into your house to make sure order is kept in your neighborhood. That constitution is there to protect us from a government gone amok...

[DawgyNWindow]

Just speaking for myself: my father was on a ship in the Panama Canal when he got word of the Nuclear Bomb being dropped on Japan. He had been in North Africa, then Sicily then Italy, and then they were told to load up, but not told where they were going. He said his whole outfit assumed they were going to the Pacific for the invasion of Japan. I don't know if my dad would have survived or not (I had not yet been conceived), but the US high command was, I believe, projecting over 250,000 US casualties. So because of those bombs, instead of landing on the Japanese mainland under fire he got to come home and start a family. Wars are horrible and no one should have to endure such, but I am very proud of my father's service. We have a treasured letter signed by President Ronald Reagan in thanks of his service on behalf of the US, and a flag flown over a US building that was provided by the US for my father's funeral, and his uniform with decorations, and most importantly - we had my dad until 1985. So I'm glad we developed those nuclear weapons.

Similar experience here. My dad was stationed on Guam when the bomb was dropped, and he knew it was going to be an "all hands" effort should the invasion be necessary. I figure I owe my existence to those weapons as well.

[KSDAWG]

Can't blame the Constitution for the poor. There is always going to be a lower middle and upper class. You could split all the income in the world amongst everyone and with in six months the income will have pooled up with the same folks that had it to begin with. The Constitution give us all an oppurtunity to make it. Countries like France who punish the rich for having money only hurt those trying to break the ceiling. All the really rich folks took their money else where months before hand. The tax wall simply became another barrier for the poor and middle class to be held down. Any law or creed that actively props up one class at the expense of another only succeeds in destroying both. Our four fathers didn't invent the wheel with the constitution. They simply took the ideologies of the day, put them on paper. It's the American people who did the hard part and that's attempted to live by those words.

[Champ967]

Regular dudes? Of course. They did however have the brilliance to create a rather remarkable document that has done a really good job for the last 200+ years.

They simply took the ideologies of the day, put them on paper. It's the American people who did the hard part and that's attempted to live by those words.

Which brings me back to the original question (post #4) ... why do folks put so much stock into what the Founders intended?

If they were just regular guys, putting the ideas of their time into writing, then what makes their interpretation better than any others? So far, the answers we've seen on this thread include:

a) They were morally superior to other generations ... an incredibly subjective and speculative claim
b) Their writings, when interpreted narrowly, tend to create wealth ......... similarly dubious
c) Obama will behead you if you fail to venerate the Founders ........... wait, what?

I promise I'm not trying to make trouble here. I'm just concerned that maybe we, as Americans, have elevated these guys to something well-above hero status. I wonder if there's not a mythology surrounding the Founders that exceeds their actual contributions.

[KSDAWG]

I'm not too worried about the founders. What they wrote is important. There were several similar types of constitutions written during that area using similar ideas. Ours has outlasted, not because of the superhuman wisdom our founding fathers but because of the stability of The United States and the willingness of its people to abide by those laws.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

We should have never allowed our country to have nuclear weapons, military aircraft, tanks, etc.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

I will agree that they were regular dudes, but they were the braintrust of our fledging nation at the time, placed there by circumstances. What made them unique was their foresight, which has rarely been seen since, and is all but extinct in DC today (and most of the rest of the country as well). Could they have done things better, of course. But looking back in hindsight is a lot different than being on the cutting edge of change and creation.

Had they not set the course for the Nation, America would look very different today, if it existed at all.

And yes I would add to the above that our "founding fathers" were divinely inspired IMHO. I think God's hand was in the founding of America from day one. The United States might have beeb created for the simple reasons to defend and stand by Israel and spread the Christian Gospel worldwide or to defend human rights and freedoms around the world. But we will never know until we face the Almighty Himself.

[Champ967]

And yes I would add to the above that our "founding fathers" were divinely inspired IMHO.

Dangerous ground there TT.

If the writers of our founding documents were divinely inspired, does that not elevate their writings to Scripture?

[maverick]

Regular dudes? Of course. They did however have the brilliance to create a rather remarkable document that has done a really good job for the last 200+ years. And it was cultural norms that impacted those groups you singled out (except the poor.....there will always be poor people, but in America you can change that).

And from where, or should I say whom, did we inherit the cultural norms? The regular dudes.

"....there will always be poor people, but in America you can change that" That's an incredibly simplistic view. I'm wondering if you've ever known people who were really poor...impoverished in more ways than their income or assets...without opportunity for education, proper nutrition, basic safety and security. Although most of us can point to the few who were fortunate enough to, against odds, rise above their circumstances, there are countless others who won't; and it isn't simply a matter of choice.

[KSDAWG]

And from where, or should I say whom, did we inherit the cultural norms? The regular dudes.

"....there will always be poor people, but in America you can change that" That's an incredibly simplistic view. I'm wondering if you've ever known people who were really poor...impoverished in more ways than their income or assets...without opportunity for education, proper nutrition, basic safety and security. Although most of us can point to the few who were fortunate enough to, against odds, rise above their circumstances, there are countless others who won't; and it isn't simply a matter of choice.

I work in the poorest parish in the State and one of the poorest in the country. I deal with the worst of the worst. They have far more oppurtunity than you could ever imagine. Free healthcare, food, eduction(LDCC), phones etc. There is absolutely no for 99% of these people to better themselves when it means all the free stuff goes away. I dot buy that "Uou don't know poor people and what they go through. I make almost exactly the same as the average male welfare recipient I deal with on a daily basis. The difference is that I drive an hour and ten minutes to work every day and I have to take care of my children. It doesn't pay government wise to help with your kids for these people. Do I blame them? No, not really. They are raise to see how liberal federal government has enslaved them and for the price of a vote, they can live on this plantations forever or until the entire house of cards comes crumbling down.

[Dirtydawg]

And yes I would add to the above that our "founding fathers" were divinely inspired IMHO. I think God's hand was in the founding of America from day one. The United States might have beeb created for the simple reasons to defend and stand by Israel and spread the Christian Gospel worldwide or to defend human rights and freedoms around the world. But we will never know until we face the Almighty Himself.

Interesting. Any scripture that would point out that the U.S., specifically, or any nation, was created to be of aid to Israel?

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Dangerous ground there TT.

If the writers of our founding documents were divinely inspired, does that not elevate their writings to Scripture?

No. people are divinely inspired by God and the Holy Spirit daily. And even insired to write devotionals and inspirational songs and books but no matter how well written, IMHO, those will not rise to the level of the scriptures and the main reason they were given to man by God. Just my opinion.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Interesting. Any scripture that would point out that the U.S., specifically, or any nation, was created to be of aid to Israel?

No. At one time I thought a certain verse did that actually asked the question (paraphrased) of "what nation is like you oh Israel?" But I believe I changed my mind when read more in context. I do know that that God has promised to "bless those that bless Israel and curse those that curse Israel". And of course my signature below about the 'end times'. So I know what side of Israel's I want to support, vote for at world bodies and courts, fund, help militarily and what side I want our President and nation to be on for sure.

Zechariah 12
³ And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
⁹ And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.