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Thread: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

  1. #31
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Just conjecture, but back in the early 1930's I guess the Quad comprised OLD MAIN, the two buildings where the bookstore is (we called them the English building and ??), University Hall (we called it the art building), the old classroom building where the tower is, and maybe the Old Tonk. Does anyone know of any pictures from that far back? My point is that the QUAD has evolved over the years and can stand to evolve some more.

  2. #32
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    I jab at 967, but he does have a point. We don't need to tear down something just because current trends in architecture look on with disdain at the older buildings. Also, once a building is torn down, we can't get it back. I sure wish the renaissance Popes would have left the structures few the polytheists of the Roman Empire alone. We lost a lot of history with that move.

    However, just because it is old doesn't mean it should be preserved. When a building is a mistake, and putting the student center in the shadow of a high rise housing project of the type conceived by Robert Morris to better manage the New York City poor is a mistake. That building can go. It was a mistake to have built it. To pay what it would take to refurbish it makes ripping it down a no brainer.

    With that said, perhaps I've read too much Edmund Burke.
    It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.

  3. #33
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    I concur that age alone does not historic significance make.

    Our mid-century dorms are important because they show how the campus developed in the post-war baby boom era. (And, to a lesser a degree, the subsequent GenerationX, a "trough" cohort who saw little new construction in their years.) Those "ugly" dorms embody the aesthetic, as well as the technology, values, and priorities of those decades.

    They speak to their time. They tell their part of Tech's story. And of America's story. And a part of the life story of any student who ever hauled in a loveseat, snuck in a 6-pack or a "study" partner, washed their own laundry for the first time, had their first (or last) roommate, or stashed a baggie of contraband above a ceiling tile. Or any of the other tiny adventures of college life.

    Ugly dorms need love too.

  4. #34
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Hippie alert.

  5. #35
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    The problem with the older buildings is not their aesthetic but the lack of upkeep. No one's calling for Bogard to be torn down because its been kept up and therefore isn't terrible. No one wants to come to a campus where they have to stay in Graham or Harper *if* they have other, nicer, facilities on hand. For example, MSU's "dorm-partments," even the worse ones, are still pretty nice from what I saw. I understand they have more money than God and we don't have a red cent, but those things matter to students with options. And we need those students.

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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by TechAlum05 View Post
    It's not included on the Master Plan, but I'm told that George T. Madison Hall and Carson Taylor Hall will be renovated in the future. There is plenty of space, but the space can be better utilized for the programs in those buildings. Also, the speech and audiology program space will expand to meet the needs of the clinical part of the Audiology Doctorate program.

    There is also talk of doubling the size of A.E. Phillips School.


    While they're in that area, Woodard Hall is quite shabby and has needed an elevator since...forever.

  7. #37
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    what would be the purpose of doubling A.E. Phillips?

  8. #38
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Dawg View Post
    The problem with the older buildings is not their aesthetic but the lack of upkeep. No one's calling for Bogard to be torn down because its been kept up and therefore isn't terrible. No one wants to come to a campus where they have to stay in Graham or Harper *if* they have other, nicer, facilities on hand. For example, MSU's "dorm-partments," even the worse ones, are still pretty nice from what I saw. I understand they have more money than God and we don't have a red cent, but those things matter to students with options. And we need those students.
    One can do an awful lot of upgrades and retrofits for the cost of a new building.

    Will it cost more to modernize our existing building stock than to build new ones? That's often been alleged, but where are the numbers? Who did the analysis? Do they consider the entire life cycle cost of the proposed new buildings, or just the initial construction costs? (Even a new building needs maintenance, starting the day it's put into service.)

    Even IF rehabbing the old dorms costs more in a 20, 30, or 50 year timeline than new construction's total cost in the same timeframe (as has been so often stated, but probably never really studied), then look at the difference between the two figures.

    Is that marginal difference in total life cycle cost enough to justify the absolutely irrevocable loss of Tech's history?

    That's a value question, I suppose ....

  9. #39
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967 View Post
    One can do an awful lot of upgrades and retrofits for the cost of a new building.

    Will it cost more to modernize our existing building stock than to build new ones? That's often been alleged, but where are the numbers? Who did the analysis? Do they consider the entire life cycle cost of the proposed new buildings, or just the initial construction costs? (Even a new building needs maintenance, starting the day it's put into service.)

    Even IF rehabbing the old dorms costs more in a 20, 30, or 50 year timeline than new construction's total cost in the same timeframe (as has been so often stated, but probably never really studied), then look at the difference between the two figures.

    Is that marginal difference in total life cycle cost enough to justify the absolutely irrevocable loss of Tech's history?

    That's a value question, I suppose ....
    if i understand you correctly, Tech should have kept Nielson and Carruthers and just remodeled them?

  10. #40
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967 View Post
    One can do an awful lot of upgrades and retrofits for the cost of a new building.

    Will it cost more to modernize our existing building stock than to build new ones? That's often been alleged, but where are the numbers? Who did the analysis? Do they consider the entire life cycle cost of the proposed new buildings, or just the initial construction costs? (Even a new building needs maintenance, starting the day it's put into service.)

    Even IF rehabbing the old dorms costs more in a 20, 30, or 50 year timeline than new construction's total cost in the same timeframe (as has been so often stated, but probably never really studied), then look at the difference between the two figures.

    Is that marginal difference in total life cycle cost enough to justify the absolutely irrevocable loss of Tech's history?

    That's a value question, I suppose ....
    I was a freshman in 1977. I hated those urban renewal high rises from the day I stepped on the campus. I refused to move into one. I didn't even want to move into Hutchison, but they forced me to by closing Jenkins in the spring. I moved off campus to get out of Hutchison.

    Again, I see your point. We shouldn't be hasty tearing down what could be tradition. I will go so far as to say that there should be a presumption (a rebuttable presumption, but a presumption by any standard) that NO building will be demolished.

    But, some day, and I know it will be long after I have assumed room temperature, they will have to tear down those horrendously ugly nanotechnology and micro manufacturing buildings. They look like choo choo trains. Taste is objective, fads are not. Those two buildings and the urban renewal high rises are neither sublime nor beautiful. We can overcome the presumption for those very bad mistakes.

    We can leave Voltaire's bust, though.
    It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.

  11. #41
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by rebelboi View Post
    if i understand you correctly, Tech should have kept Nielson and Carruthers and just remodeled them?
    Ideally, yes.

    Or, at the very least, it should have been seriously considered.

  12. #42
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Soonerdawg View Post
    .

    Those two buildings and the urban renewal high rises are neither sublime nor beautiful.
    .
    Nor are slave quarters, outhouses, or Native American burial mounds.

    But we may be at an impasse. Thank you for taking the time to read and understand.

  13. #43
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by Champ967 View Post
    Nor are slave quarters, outhouses, or Native American burial mounds.

    But we may be at an impasse. Thank you for taking the time to read and understand.
    Depends on your perspective of history, I guess. I happen to find slave quarters and native American burial grounds beautiful and fascinating, and some find outhouses very cool.

  14. #44
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckK3 View Post
    Depends on your perspective of history, I guess. I happen to find slave quarters and native American burial grounds beautiful and fascinating, and some find outhouses very cool.
    I agree they are fascinating and cool. They were designed for a purpose, and from their continued existence we learn.

    But I'm sure you'll agree that such utilitarian structures don't quite fit most contemporary understandings of "beauty".

    Our non-beautiful dorms were similarly designed for a purpose, in their time.

  15. #45
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    Re: Dr. Guice Blog with Campus Master Plan Map

    If you want to see UGLY just visit the Louisiana Sports' Hall of Fame in Natchitoches. It is beyond description in ugliness. And, to make matters worse, it is so out of place in Historic old Natchitoches.

    Borrowing on that theme, I think college campuses (campi?) have a certain "look" and the architecture should say "college." Kind of like, if you were to remove all signage, someone driving onto a college campus would guess, this must be a college campus, because it looks like one.

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