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Thread: Budget cuts....closing universities

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    Budget cuts....closing universities

    Grambling, Southern, UNO, and Nicholls State are the low-hanging fruit and will be the first schools closed....should it come to that. I have known this for several months but was asked to keep quiet about it. No need to stir things up and get the public riled up....until there was no choice. Well, just now on the radio, State Senator Gerald Long disclosed the list of four schools. He was QUICK to add it might not come to that, and that he recognizes the contributions of those 4 schools to Louisiana's higher ed history. Etc.... the normal disclaimers you would expect one to make.

    This recommendation does not come from a public source. That is, it is not the result of a group of legislators and/or higher ed officials in ULS or elsewhere. Rather, this is a summary of a study conducted by a private group of prominent businessmen, business leaders, and HUGE benefactors to other state universities.

    Dr. Jim Henderson, new Prez of NSU, included a blurb about this in his weekly message:

    Even as efforts to mitigate the cuts continue, some are quick to provide othersolutions to the situation. One argument often brought forward is thatLouisiana has too many 4-year universities. One analysis recently published compared, on a per capita basis, the number of universities in Louisiana to the number in Florida and the number in North Carolina. I pointed out to the author two problems with his analysis. North Carolina has 16 four-year universities, which is fewer per capita than Louisiana, but North Carolina also spends nearly $9,000 per FTE student compared to less than $4,000 in Louisiana. Florida has fewer universities per capita than Louisiana as well, but only when one forgets that 16 community colleges in Florida offer bachelors degrees because the number of universities is insufficient to meet demand. Are there opportunities for efficiencies in our offerings? Sure, but if one closed every university north of Ville Platte, the state would not save enough to fix the higher education portion of the budget cut. When you add the bonded indebtedness of these universities to the equation, you will be further convinced this argument is a red herring.


    Dr. Henderson is correct to point out that closing 4 schools will NOT affect short-term budget woes. All four schools are deep in debt, and they have obligations to current faculty and staff that will have to be paid off first. I don't agree that it is a "red herring," however. Long term effects will be positive on the state budget, AND! will send a clear message to all other schools to get and keep their fiscal house in order....or you may be next. (BTW, I REALLY like Dr. Henderson. He gets it and will do well for NSU.)

    All of this to say, I do believe our "leaders" recognize the severity of the budget crisis and are taking a hard look at solutions and alternatives. First step to solving any problem is admitting there is one.

    You might say, well D80, there is really nothing new in this post. Everyone already knew all of this. Yep. Except now it is being discussed publically and openly, not just whispered behind closed doors. I already mentioned how Faculty Senates across the state have taken up the issue as well. So, we'll see where it all leads. One thing is certain, the state is facing a $1.6 billion budget shortfall and as a Shreveport State Rep said the other night (can't remember his name....Adlin? something like that) all the state legislature has to play with is $2 billion in funding for higher ed and healthcare. Only, foolish Louisiana voters just approved an amendment to effectively protect healthcare, so it will fall on the higher ed....again.


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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Grambling, Southern, UNO, and Nicholls State are the low-hanging fruit and will be the first schools closed....should it come to that. I have known this for several months but was asked to keep quiet about it. No need to stir things up and get the public riled up....until there was no choice. Well, just now on the radio, State Senator Gerald Long disclosed the list of four schools. He was QUICK to add it might not come to that, and that he recognizes the contributions of those 4 schools to Louisiana's higher ed history. Etc.... the normal disclaimers you would expect one to make.

    This recommendation does not come from a public source. That is, it is not the result of a group of legislators and/or higher ed officials in ULS or elsewhere. Rather, this is a summary of a study conducted by a private group of prominent businessmen, business leaders, and HUGE benefactors to other state universities.

    Dr. Jim Henderson, new Prez of NSU, included a blurb about this in his weekly message:

    Even as efforts to mitigate the cuts continue, some are quick to provide othersolutions to the situation. One argument often brought forward is thatLouisiana has too many 4-year universities. One analysis recently published compared, on a per capita basis, the number of universities in Louisiana to the number in Florida and the number in North Carolina. I pointed out to the author two problems with his analysis. North Carolina has 16 four-year universities, which is fewer per capita than Louisiana, but North Carolina also spends nearly $9,000 per FTE student compared to less than $4,000 in Louisiana. Florida has fewer universities per capita than Louisiana as well, but only when one forgets that 16 community colleges in Florida offer bachelors degrees because the number of universities is insufficient to meet demand. Are there opportunities for efficiencies in our offerings? Sure, but if one closed every university north of Ville Platte, the state would not save enough to fix the higher education portion of the budget cut. When you add the bonded indebtedness of these universities to the equation, you will be further convinced this argument is a red herring.


    Dr. Henderson is correct to point out that closing 4 schools will NOT affect short-term budget woes. All four schools are deep in debt, and they have obligations to current faculty and staff that will have to be paid off first. I don't agree that it is a "red herring," however. Long term effects will be positive on the state budget, AND! will send a clear message to all other schools to get and keep their fiscal house in order....or you may be next. (BTW, I REALLY like Dr. Henderson. He gets it and will do well for NSU.)

    All of this to say, I do believe our "leaders" recognize the severity of the budget crisis and are taking a hard look at solutions and alternatives. First step to solving any problem is admitting there is one.

    You might say, well D80, there is really nothing new in this post. Everyone already knew all of this. Yep. Except now it is being discussed publically and openly, not just whispered behind closed doors. I already mentioned how Faculty Senates across the state have taken up the issue as well. So, we'll see where it all leads. One thing is certain, the state is facing a $1.6 billion budget shortfall and as a Shreveport State Rep said the other night (can't remember his name....Adlin? something like that) all the state legislature has to play with is $2 billion in funding for higher ed and healthcare. Only, foolish Louisiana voters just approved an amendment to effectively protect healthcare, so it will fall on the higher ed....again.

    I just don't think Louisiana has the political guts to go forward. Now that it is "out", politicians will be coming out of the woodwork to protect those universities. Hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it.

    They would do well to make those schools 2 year colleges - along with NLU and Northwestern.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Good old Memorial Gym

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    D80, why was SUNO, LSUA and LSUS not on the chopping block?? Cutting Southern out would be lopping the head off of an entire system. I think we should take the Southern system over, get rid of SUNO and Southern BR, and merge SUSBO with Tech Barksdale.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    That is an interesting list for "low-hanging fruit." Ain't happening, try a different four!

    Southern isn't going anywhere. Period.

    UNO? How does closing the top public four-year university in the state's largest city accomplish anything?

    I think Grambling has to exist in some form, if not a full-fledged operating four-year university. Maybe they get merged with Southern, as a satellite campus with a football team and band, to carry out the HBCU mission?

    Nicholls probably has the least political capital to fight off closure. Maybe the campus in Thibodaux gets merged with ULL or UNO to continue some the core competencies of the culinary institute and the maritime programs that have a lot of private dollar support.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    I agree with Domangue, this is a terrible list of low hanging fruit. Southern isn't going anywhere, UNO either. Grambling is the only one who would make my bottom 4. Nicholls maybe but I don't know. Not trying to shoot the messenger, I appreciate the info. I just don't see anything happening if these are their 4 targets.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Quote Originally Posted by KSDAWG View Post
    D80, why was SUNO, LSUA and LSUS not on the chopping block?? Cutting Southern out would be lopping the head off of an entire system.

    I think we should take the Southern system over, get rid of SUNO and Southern BR, and merge SUSBO with Tech Barksdale.
    Or merge SUSLA with BPCC to create one community college for northwest Louisiana, merge SUNO into UNO, and move Southern University to the UL System. This would also eliminate the Southern University System while keeping Southern alive.

    IMO, LSUA is not on the chopping block because Roy Martin, Jr. was one of the charter members of the LSUA Foundation and the chair of their first fundraising campaign, and his son (Roy Martin III) is the current Chair of the Louisiana Board of Regents.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    I agree with Domangue, this is a terrible list of low hanging fruit. Southern isn't going anywhere, UNO either. Grambling is the only one who would make my bottom 4. Nicholls maybe but I don't know. Not trying to shoot the messenger, I appreciate the info. I just don't see anything happening if these are their 4 targets.
    If this is truly "the list" then the whole thing is a farce to begin with... they were never serious about any closings.

    How about rural north Louisiana campuses with dwindling enrollment and limited political capital to fight closure? Anyone?

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    I honestly think the plan is just to starve EVERYONE and the strongest will survive in the end...

    What 98% of Louisianans don't realize that the $1.6 billion shortfall in the news is based on oil at $69/per barrel

    When it should be based on an oil price of $55/per barrel at the absolute MAX!

    So the state is facing an additional 20% shortfall across the board on top of the $1.6 billion!
    ''Don't be a bad dagh..."

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Quote Originally Posted by domangue View Post
    If this is truly "the list" then the whole thing is a farce to begin with... they were never serious about any closings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne From Minden View Post
    I honestly think the plan is just to starve EVERYONE and the strongest will survive in the end...
    This and this. I honestly can't believe some of you are still talking about closing universities and reducing missions as if they are real possibilities. They aren't. It's just a typical Jindal scare tactic. No university is getting shut down. No university is getting turned into a juco. Closing universities or reducing missions does absolutely nothing to help any of Louisiana's short term budget woes. And that's all this is about...plugging budget holes in the short term until Jindal's term ends to leave a mess for the next governor. Everybody will survive in the end because the end is simply the end of Jindal's term. Jindal and all of his peons in the legislature have no long term plan other than a presidential run. Tech will get starved just as bad or worse than all of these other universities y'all are talking about shutting down or turning into jucos.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne From Minden View Post
    I honestly think the plan is just to starve EVERYONE and the strongest will survive in the end...

    What 98% of Louisianans don't realize that the $1.6 billion shortfall in the news is based on oil at $69/per barrel

    When it should be based on an oil price of $55/per barrel at the absolute MAX!

    So the state is facing an additional 20% shortfall across the board on top of the $1.6 billion!
    It really could be the doomsday scenario. A governor who refuses to not only not raise taxes but who vows to stop any reduction in exemptions that are not tax neutral. Combine that with an election year in which many lawmakers refuse to even discuss a tax increase. Combine those political realities with a budget deficit that can't be plugged with any more rainy day funds that appear at the 11th hour.

    Even if the deficit is half of what is projected, it will mean an ugly scenario. I could see a scenario where there are massive cuts across the board. Tech and UL-Lafayette both circle the wagons and raise private money to close the gap for at least a few years. I could see this at UNO, as well. The money crowd in New Orleans would step to the plate if it came to UNO closing or keeping its doors open. They would find a way. Perhaps McNeese, as well.

    The rest will have to cut to nothing and hope to fight off losing SACS accreditation. That's the ultimate fear in all of this. Losing SACS means losing federal funds and students who either have federal grants or loans. Losing that means losing the school. Defaulting on revenue bonds at each of these schools will be the least of the state's worries.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg06 View Post
    This and this. I honestly can't believe some of you are still talking about closing universities and reducing missions as if they are real possibilities. They aren't. It's just a typical Jindal scare tactic. No university is getting shut down. No university is getting turned into a juco. Closing universities or reducing missions does absolutely nothing to help any of Louisiana's short term budget woes. And that's all this is about...plugging budget holes in the short term until Jindal's term ends to leave a mess for the next governor. Everybody will survive in the end because the end is simply the end of Jindal's term. Jindal and all of his peons in the legislature have no long term plan other than a presidential run. Tech will get starved just as bad or worse than all of these other universities y'all are talking about shutting down or turning into jucos.
    I'm not certain about what might close, but I have been told by more than one person in Baton Rouge that the "real" numbers are still staggering. And the vast majority of the rainy day money is gone.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    By just the responses on this board, one can see the problem facing Louisiana. In 11 replies there are several disagreements and differing versions of what should happen. Now....do you honestly expect the state legislature to come to a consensus on any of this?

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    By just the responses on this board, one can see the problem facing Louisiana. In 11 replies there are several disagreements and differing versions of what should happen. Now....do you honestly expect the state legislature to come to a consensus on any of this?
    No, and giving the general cowardice of most elected officials. I would expect nothing to be done and everyone gets hurt.

    ULL, LSU, TECH, Southern,Northwestern and maybe UNO all have varying degrees of private financing and political clout. I'm afraid that we will starve with the rest for a short period but survive and thrive in the long run. No one on this board or any other has ever discussed our closure and for good reason. The strong will survive. I think that times are about to get bad enough that eliminating some of these schools is gonna have to happen sooner or later.

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    Re: Budget cuts....closing universities

    A year or so ago, I had been posting articles showing there was a higher education bubble that was about to burst that I think will be worse than the housing market bubble burst. Nobody responded, so I figured there was no interest. This is happening all over the United States. A college degree has lost its value because of grade inflation that was necessary to keep the student loans coming in, as well as resort like facilities. What can't go on, won't, and there are signs that massive closings are going to happen all over the country.
    It's time to close the doors to the Temple of Janus.

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