Travel Ball

[PawDawg]

Not the proper forum, but this should generate some interesting discussion. We need it.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/s...strial-complex

Great read. Here is a sample that should spark your interest...

And then, five years down the line when Little Johnny decides to trade his bat and glove for a skateboard and a piercing, his parents can scream and yell about the travel ball coach who ruined baseball for their son by taking their money and not playing him. It's an overgeneralization, sure, but the whole operation has a way of surgically extracting the fun out of a sport at an age when fun is all it should be.

[inudesu]

Baseball and basketball were already headed down this road 20 years ago when I was a kid. From what I've heard volleyball and 7-on-7 football have turned those sports into 24-7-365 grinds, too.

I hope my kids play sports and I hope they're good. And if they're good and want to play in more competitive settings, then we'll see what we can do about that. But I don't want my whole family organized around a year-round baseball schedule. That just doesn't seem healthy to me (and sounds insanely boring).

[Dawgpix]

Not the proper forum, but this should generate some interesting discussion. We need it.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/s...strial-complex

Great read. Here is a sample that should spark your interest...

And then, five years down the line when Little Johnny decides to trade his bat and glove for a skateboard and a piercing, his parents can scream and yell about the travel ball coach who ruined baseball for their son by taking their money and not playing him. It's an overgeneralization, sure, but the whole operation has a way of surgically extracting the fun out of a sport at an age when fun is all it should be.

What do you expect out of a writer whose claim to fame is authoring a biography of a reality show star . . .

[Cal&Ken]

Not the proper forum, but this should generate some interesting discussion. We need it.

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/s...strial-complex

Great read. Here is a sample that should spark your interest...

And then, five years down the line when Little Johnny decides to trade his bat and glove for a skateboard and a piercing, his parents can scream and yell about the travel ball coach who ruined baseball for their son by taking their money and not playing him. It's an overgeneralization, sure, but the whole operation has a way of surgically extracting the fun out of a sport at an age when fun is all it should be.

Both of my girls play competitive soccer and devote a great deal of time to it. My girls love the game and this is what THEY want to do. I wanted my girls to love softball as I did, and I spent all my extra time playing "travel ball" before it had a name. That said, it is disheartening to me to see the politics involved and the competitive "parents" that can take away the joy. My youngest daughter is going through tryouts for next years team now, and it is amazing to me. She will be on the "B" team and love it because she loves her teammates and gets to play the entire game. There are other parents that NEED their kids to be on the "A" team and don't mind them sitting and watching the entire game, including when they are ahead 10 -0 (which should never even be a score in soccer), and scrimmages. Thankfully both of my girls have found teams to play on they enjoy and will both be ready to play high school soccer because of the better competition travel soccer offers- I just hate to see the parents take the joy away from the kids by forcing them to be the "best" when they would not even start for our "B" team.

The draw back to "travel" sports is it forces kids to start too early deciding what it is they want to do. When you practice 3 days a week or more, it greatly limits other activities that they find they enjoy or excel at if they had tried.

[LEEDAWG]

There is no shortage of parents who contribute to the problem on both ends of the spectrum. Some set impossible standards trying to live vicariously through their kids and others don't teach their kids to handle failure and work to bounce back from it.

[Tech77]

I thought this was a great article.

[DiamondDawg36]

Another angle people do not look at is that the MLB draft has went from over a 100 rounds to I believe 30 rounds now over the last 20 years. They still have a AAA, AA, 2 single A, short A and Rookie teams but they only draft a 3rd of the players. Reason being is all of the Dominican, Cuban and overseas players they sign. When you attend or watch a major league game on TV now you can not pronounce half the names on the roster. Travel ball players are not just competing with little Johnny but Jose and Felipe in the Caribbean. I got drafted by the Cubs in '92 and when I got to mini camp that June, the Cubs had 16 year old Dominicans there at the facility. That was the first year they went to 50 rounds. I remember in our orientation they said less than 2% of all people in the US that play organized baseball get drafted and less than 1% that get drafted ever make the show. That number is smaller now obvious since there are even less rounds. I have heard many scouts say the cream will rise to the top and it does not take travel ball to bring it there.

[inudesu]

The draw back to "travel" sports is it forces kids to start too early deciding what it is they want to do. When you practice 3 days a week or more, it greatly limits other activities that they find they enjoy or excel at if they had tried.

This is one thing that worries me. The over-specialization.

[Dawgpix]

Yes, I do travel ball every other weekend or so. And, we practice twice a week. I'm humored, too, by "AA" and some "AAA" teams that go by the "Select" "Choice" "Elite" labels in their names. (Because they're not).

You can either show your arse at local league play or at travel ball games. I've seen both and I've seen it all.

Oh, and I'll be through with baseball the middle of June. Our family gets a "summer" by doing travel ball. That dreaded "travel ball" exercise of doing league all-stars has become its own joke, tying up summer nights until mid-August (if your team of all-stars keep progressing.)

[techman05]

The only thing I wonder about is little Johnny that plays one sport from age 7 up til high school. All the sudden his sophomore year he takes a growing spurt and he is 6'4 and 200 lbs. nice size for a high school b-ball player, but he has never shot the ball in his life because of the year round possibility of he other sport. Are these parents just snarky and confident enough that their golden child can just pick up anything else and do it on command because he is God's gift? Do they ignore the possibility that maybe their kid could be gifted even more in another sport than the one he or the parents chose around the time he learned to ride a bike with gears and handle brakes?

[dawg80]

There is no shortage of parents who contribute to the problem on both ends of the spectrum. Some set impossible standards trying to live vicariously through their kids.....

GUILTY!!!

I deleted that last part because I do emphasize handling failure, etc... But that first part was all me. My daughter wanted to play basketball, even though she was already very good at soccer and track. Given her size (or lack thereof) I thought hoops was a pipe dream of hers, never to be realized. But, she proved me wrong. Turned out to be a good little guard and a terror on defense. She would frustrate the hell out of opposing PGs, stealing the ball, deflecting passes...kind of a Speedy Smith type of player. She was enjoying success, first in middle school, and later at the junior high. She wanted to take her game to the next level and that meant Travel Ball (summer). She went out for the Natchitoches squad, a team at that time featuring Brandy Broome. She was among the last 4 cut on the week-long tryouts. My lil girl was so disappointed I started my own team. Yep! spent $thousands on fees, uniforms, travel, etc.. just so my daughter, and the other girls I recruited, could play Travel Ball.

Admittedly I was living vicariously thru her exploits and enjoyed the slaps on the back with the "Gee Dad! your daughter is an awesome player!" Which she was, and that I had nothing to do with.

So, yes, I am guilty of all those bad things parents do. And....I would do them again, because she is my lil girl .

[Brad]

I coach 12U accelerated (aka: select, elite, super league) softball in Utah. This is my 10th season of coaching youth sports in Utah and Texas, but my first year in accelerated. I also have a son who plays accelerated baseball.

This year has been an eye opening experience from a coaching standpoint. One of the things that really bothers me is that some coaches and parents demand that kids play only one sport. I will never forget the first time a mom asked me if it was OK if her daughter played basketball, too. I told her that I want the kids to be kids, and the last thing I want is for softball to become a job for the girls. In other words, when we are not practicing or playing games, I don't care what the kids do.

Then you add the fact that some coaches and parents demand kids only play one position. We don't take that approach. Instead, we make sure every kid plays infield and outfield during every game day, because chances are that an 11-year-old specializing at shortstop will be better suited physically for another position when she is in high school. We made a promise to the parents that their daughters will be better ball players at the end of the season than they were at the first. We are working hard to fulfill that. Now, we confidently feel like all of our girls can play infield with little or no drop off and don’t need worry about what we will do if a player is unable to play. (Note: While I am fairly liberal moving kids around, I will not let a parent tell me where a kid will play. The few times that it has happened in rec and accelerated ball, I removed the kid from my roster within 24 hours.)

The other thing that blows my mind is the cost. We charged each kid $460 (which we have learned is cheap) for the spring/summer season. This money covers two full uniforms, seven tournaments, league and national organization registrations, league play, insurance, equipment, etc. There are some teams at our age level and above charging $1,500 to $2,000 a year just to be on the team. Some of the organizations have multiple teams at different levels. When you do the math, you will see that 100 girls at $1,500 adds up quick. I guarantee you not all of that money goes to softball expenses.

In addition to the high costs, the number of games is ridiculous. For example, I know one team that played 152 games two years ago. Most major league baseball players do not play in 152 games during a season. There is another group playing in 18 tournaments this season, with a good number out of state. Then thee are some teams who practice all year. They will hold two-three practices a week indoors during the winter months. They are so gung ho, some practices for these youth teams do not start until 9 p.m. on school nights. It is nuts.

We have taken a different approach, and I catch a lot of criticism from other accelerated coaches. Our spring/summer season begins March 1 and ends in the middle of July. We will give the families a month off and will then come back for fall ball (mid-August to early October at approximately $100 per player). With the exception of tournament weeks, we never get together more than twice a week during the season and will take mid-October to February off.

Instead of falling farther behind each week with our less intense approach, we have noticed that a number of the teams we have seen on a regular basis so far this year have become stagnant and look bored. Our girls are improving each week and are excited to be there. Yes, as a first-year team, we have taken quite a few beatings, but on the other hand, we have been in games (that on paper) we had no business being competitive in. Our goal is to make better ball players and have fun, and we are doing that. We are not trophy hunters and do not seek to make money off these girls.

Would I go back to rec ball? Heck no. The privately run leagues are too politicized, and unless you are in the "in-crowd," it is difficult to be successful. For example, the league I coached in last spring cut a deal with an accelerated team to play in the league. The league rules were that a coach could only reserve a total of 4 girls for his roster. They made an exception for this team with the agreement that this team would also be on the A all-star team so that the league could finally win the state all-star title. Of course, this team obliterated most of the rec league, but hysterically, fell on its face during the all-star season and did not come close to winning state. (Note: I must also point out that when comparing the cost of accelerated softball for my team this year and the costs for my daughter to play in the rec league and rec all-stars last year, the accelerated ball is cheaper.)

I don’t want to pick on Utah exclusively. My daughter’s last season in Texas was another example of politics at play. She tried out for the all-star teams (2 teams with 24 spots.) She graded No. 8 out of 36 girls trying out. But she was not selected. The league commissioner said that the coaches weren’t required to take girls based on the tryout result. The kids that made it were mostly the kids of the coaches and board members and the players from their teams, about half of which did not try out. The president basically admitted to me that the tryout was held only for PR purposes.

Then there was my son’s coach in his last fall season in Texas, who was the best youth sports coach I have ever seen. That team lost its first game, and then the team just beat the heck out of every one the rest of the year. We were looking forward to having my son play with him the next spring, but much to our surprise, the board did not select him as a coach. The spring coaches were either board members, spouses of board members or had very close ties with board members. The official reason was that the board “misplaced” his application, but the board members I had a good relationship with said that he upset the status quo.

Then, there are the city-run rec leagues, which have become infested with "fun, fair play soccer" people. It is all about feeling good and being competitive is discouraged. My nieces play in a 14u softball league that does not officially keep score. No thanks!

I like accelerated ball as a coach because I don't worry about dealing with politics of rec league boards (which are about as bad as the insanity associated with a home owners’ association board) and putting up with the liberal, idiotic bureaucracy of a city-run league. My coaching staff and I are in control of how we handle the team and the progression of its players.

In the end, though, I agree with the notion that certain types of elite teams are a negative to youth sports. I know a lot of kids and families that walk away because of the time and costs or because they are burned out. But rec ball has serious detrimental flaws, too, that will leave a bad taste in your mouth.

I survive the lunacy by just trying to produce better players who love playing the game.

[LEEDAWG]

GUILTY!!!

I deleted that last part because I do emphasize handling failure, etc... But that first part was all me. My daughter wanted to play basketball, even though she was already very good at soccer and track. Given her size (or lack thereof) I thought hoops was a pipe dream of hers, never to be realized. But, she proved me wrong. Turned out to be a good little guard and a terror on defense. She would frustrate the hell out of opposing PGs, stealing the ball, deflecting passes...kind of a Speedy Smith type of player. She was enjoying success, first in middle school, and later at the junior high. She wanted to take her game to the next level and that meant Travel Ball (summer). She went out for the Natchitoches squad, a team at that time featuring Brandy Broome. She was among the last 4 cut on the week-long tryouts. My lil girl was so disappointed I started my own team. Yep! spent $thousands on fees, uniforms, travel, etc.. just so my daughter, and the other girls I recruited, could play Travel Ball.

Admittedly I was living vicariously thru her exploits and enjoyed the slaps on the back with the "Gee Dad! your daughter is an awesome player!" Which she was, and that I had nothing to do with.

So, yes, I am guilty of all those bad things parents do. And....I would do them again, because she is my lil girl .

Well it doesn't sound like your vicarious living is to an extreme that it robs your child of the enjoyment she finds in playing her sport. You are more reaping the benefits of providing her the opportunity to do something that she had interest in and a talent.
I don't think you are forcing your sporting-will on your child.
If you are forcing her to practice excessively because you want her to play at the next level when she doesn't, if you are embarrassing or humiliating her during games when things don't go right, if you suggest everyone gets a trophy when the team finishes in last place....then that would be bad parenting. I doubt you are guilty of those (except maybe losing your cool during a game when a referee blows a call big-time).

[LATechBanjo]

Would I go back to rec ball? Heck no. The privately run leagues are too politicized, and unless you are in the "in-crowd," it is difficult to be successful. For example, the league I coached in last spring cut a deal with an accelerated team to play in the league. The league rules were that a coach could only reserve a total of 4 girls for his roster. They made an exception for this team with the agreement that this team would also be on the A all-star team so that the league could finally win the state all-star title. Of course, this team obliterated most of the rec league, but hysterically, fell on its face during the all-star season and did not come close to winning state. (Note: I must also point out that when comparing the cost of accelerated softball for my team this year and the costs for my daughter to play in the rec league and rec all-stars last year, the accelerated ball is cheaper.)

This just suggests the total lunacy associated with competitive youth sports. Who cares if you win a state all-star title if you have to rig the league?

Then, there are the city-run rec leagues, which have become infested with "fun, fair play soccer" people. It is all about feeling good and being competitive is discouraged. My nieces play in a 14u softball league that does not officially keep score. No thanks!

At U14, that's crazy. If the kids can count to 20, you should be keeping score.

I survive the lunacy by just trying to produce better players who love playing the game.

About 20 years ago when I was playing, there were only a handful of kids that actually cared to be in all-stars or whatnot. It was a great way to waste most of your summer after playing rec ball.

I was a pretty good soccer player growing up, but there was no organized infrastructure for promoting advanced or elite or select teams at that time. All we had were travel teams. One year, I tried out and made one of the travel teams (U12 I believe). It was my only year in travel soccer, and I hated every minute of it. Even through my dense 11 year old eyes, I could tell the parents were completely out of their minds. The coach was thrown off the pitch seemingly every other week for yelling at the kids and officials. I loved soccer, loved the competition, but I didn't need to torture myself and my parents to do express that. If you're not going to be a PRO, why practice 8 hours a week and travel 3 hours to play two or three games against teams you don't care about? I really appreciated my parents doing that for me, and only after reaching adulthood did I realize what kind of expense and pain they went through.

And I think I came away from that experience with such a realization because I didn't really care THAT much. I love the game, but no one ever told me I should be a professional soccer star, and I didn't want to do it anyway. That article scares me, because it really seems to be saying that a majority of our kids are being convinced that they are the elite of the elite.

[PawDawg]

Random thoughts on the subject...

-Not to be judemental, but giving up a family home life for many months per year seems to be too much.

-There are several catagories of travel ball player/parents. (1) Those that have a legit shot at playing college ball. They may need the reps, but IMO don't need to play excessively until age 14 or 15 when they can begin summer showcase team play. (2) Those who have decent players, but even though they can't afford travel ball, they sacrifice everything to live through "little Jimmy" (3) Those who throw money around just to be able to say "We play travel ball". Of course there are mixtures of all the above.

- The Dominicans are taking the game over. Not sure the average American gets a real opportunity any longer unless he can pitch. From what I hear, there is NOTHING tougher than coming up in the minors.

- Dixie has waited too late to fix their problems. From what I understand, Little League is no better.

-I believe rec ball in the local communities can get a kick start, but it will take much money and organizers who are doing it for the right reasons.