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Since you "were close to the program" you should be able to dig up the budget and tell us how much money they actually made back in those days. They spent money every time they got on a jet and flew to California for road swing games or to the final four games. The budget exceeded the men's budget. Since you were close to the program you should know that.Originally Posted by HogDawg
Not getting in this middle of this...
BUT! I think it is true that WBB out-grossed MBB at the gate (and concessions, etc...). MBB benefits from fat checks from the conference office from the NCAA playoffs and from the TV deals. But, earned on their own merits...well, I think WBB > MBB.
I remember J.D. Barnett pitching a whiny, hissy fit about the much better attendance of WBB over the men's. There was an article in the Tech Talk and word spread about his pleading for folks to show up for the men's games. During his pretty good 17-9 season Tech hosted Lamar in an important conference tilt and answering the call, fans turned out in old Memorial. Probably a legit crowd of 2,500+. Tech lost by about 10 points and folks were hollering toward Barnett after the game, "if you would actually win, maybe fans will come out!"
Even during the Malone years, attendance was never that great. WBB was still outdrawing the men in the mid-80's. Attendance was good, yes, but we're talking 2,500 butts in seats many, many nights.
I, for one, think it's hilarious LSU is spending that much money on women's basketball. The general public has given its opinion of women's basketball. The vast majority couldn't care less.
Have you considered those Dogs?
This is true. The effects of a MBB championship for Baylor will far outlive the effects of 3 WBB champs.
My argument was never that WBB didn't have more attendance than the men back in those days. I refuted HD's claim that they actually made money. They never did.
And as usual, you are wrong. You make broad statements without any proof or facts. Furthermore, I don't think there's any question in anyone's mind on THIS board that you have a long, deep seeded, bias against the Lady Techsters basketball program, and have always taken jabs at that program whenever possible.
To D80's statement above, he is correct. I did an exit interview with JD Barnett for the Tech Talk in 1979 right after he had accepted the VCU job, but just before he left town. Barnett was very unhappy about the way MEN'S basketball took a back seat to the Lady Techsters here. Obviously, I can't remember his quotes verbatim from over 40 years ago, but to paraphrase his response to my question about why he was leaving Tech, he stated FOR THE RECORD:
"This is a strange basketball town. The fact that we are winning and can't draw half as big a crowd as the women's team just boggles my mind. They (the Lady Techsters) draw much bigger crowds than we do, they make more money than we do, and they play in some better gym's and places than we do. But they can't play physical basketball like we do. You'll never see them playing above the rim like the men do. You'll never see a physically dominating player like Darrell Griffith (at Louisville) or (he named a couple of other men's players) at a women's basketball game. I'll never understand why people leave the gym after a women's game and don't stay for our men's game. But they do. So it's better for me to move on to a true men's basketball school like VCU". -- Paraphrase from JD Barnett
He then went on to talk about how he and the VCU AD were long time friends, and they had worked together before somewhere, etc... But he was very excited to be moving on to (as he called it) "a real basketball conference".
Again, it's been well over 40 years since I conducted that interview for the Tech Talk. But that is very close to what he told me verbatim.
So, Dawg80's statements above are true, and so are mine.
The REAL question is, has the men's basketball program at LA Tech ever made any money?
Not sure how much our MBB program has made, but if they have it would have come from NCAA Tournament units via our shared revenue from the various conferences we were a member of. No chance of that happening in WBB. Can’t make a net profit from ticket sales and concessions
I was at Tech during the end of the Loyd era and the start of the Wooldridge era and it was not even close. At the end of the Loyd era the attendance ratio might have been 3 or 4 to 1 Techsters. The Lady Techsters were very exciting back in the day. I have no idea about the money.
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HD: I hear everything you're saying. At one point in the late 70s and early 80s there was more fan support for the Lady Techsters, but that didn't translate into much more ticket/concession generated financial support.
It would be more correct to ask the question "which program has lost the least amount of money." Neither the Dunkin Dawg nor Lady Techster program has ever turned a profit or even come close to breaking even.
Regarding Budgets/Season Tickets
When Sonja was still in the program, she and Leon went to Dr. Taylor and insisted that the money Tech provided each program be equal. FJ agreed to it.
That said, Lady Techster season tickets were never more than a thousand more than the men's season tickets. During the height of the Dunkin Dawg program run in the mid and late 80s the season tickets were fairly similar.
But the Lady Techsters had 2 revenue sources the men's program did not have. Neither counted towards the equal budget policy.
Adidas
By the mid 80s Leon had a personal contract with Adidas. That allowed him to more than double his pay and provided him with twice what the men's coaches of that era were making. If you'll remember, that's how those contracts worked in those days. They were with the coach, not the school. After winning the national title in 1988 Leon's contract with Adidas was into 6 figures annually. Leon was making more than every men's coach in Louisiana not named Dale Brown. None of it went through Tech, so it didn't count toward the equal budget policy.
Camps
The other revenue source was camp money. While the men's program had some camp money coming in, the Lady Techsters ran both day camps and overnight camps throughout the summer for everything from girls under 10 to 5 star level high school prospects. I suspect that's what JD Barnett was talking about. It made money, but after expenses it didn't make six figures or even close to it. Still, Leon insisted the camp money not count towards the equal budget policy. He then used the money to supplement Lady Techster assistant coach pay and other areas in his program. That put the pay pool for the women's program ahead of the men's program when it came to assistant coaches.
Why the equal budget policy had an impact
Many supporters of the men's program argued that those 2 areas should count towards the equal budget policy. The men's budget was well below the budgets of both ULL and UNO. But Taylor and later Reneau left the policy in place. It really all came to a head the last week of March, 1989. Coach Eagles had been offered the Auburn job. But he told Reneau all he wanted from Tech was a $25,000 raise and for the pool for his assistants be raised to what it was the Lady Techsters. He asked Reneau at least 4 or 5 times and each time Reneau said no.
So on March 31, 1989 Eagles took the Auburn job. For all practical purposes it was the day the men's program jumped the shark. It all changed on that day.
Last edited by The Historian; 05-03-2021 at 03:36 PM.
Back to Karl and his comments. Not sure what year, somewhere between 90-92, Tech held a big dinner for Malone in the TAC. Baseball team as I am sure the others team had to go, so I got to witness this. They brought in the Jazz coach and owner I believe. They all spoke and Karl was last. He took that opportunity to blast the Lady Techsters and their fans. He did not hold back. Not saying I did not agree with him just thought it was wrong since he was being honored by Tech. Just one of those memories when I was 19-20 yrs old.
Still feel like Karl gave the best speech I ever heard at our commencement in 2005. Other than that, I don’t have much for him.
It was Karl's Tech Hall of Fame induction and he did quite well from the podium. Butts that needed squirming squirmed.
My take on Karl back in the day. He left Ruston and learned how to lift and make free throws and became a man and didn't have to bow down to anyone anymore.
When Karl showed his good friend James he, too, could drive an 18-wheeler that he bought with his insane salary, then the new Karl in Ruston was born.
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Good summary, Historian. So, the Lady Techsters --including the Lady Techster coaches-- had at least 2 income sources "on the side", that the men didn't have access to, and that weren't included in the school's equal budget policy.
Scotty Robertson developed the profitable Tech basketball camp model used by Sonja and Leon around the state.
When Barnett arrived, liberal free usage of Tech facilities became not so free for the guys.
Scotty would rack up on his resident camper$.
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