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Thread: Old Testament Question

  1. #31
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by sportkid View Post
    I'm hoping that you can find a good bible study near you as it seems you are looking at the bible from a world view and it can be easily misunderstood from that vantage point.

    Just out of curiosity, what do you believe in?
    I know what it looks like from inside the Christian perspective. Been there and done that. It is easy to continue to believe it by choosing to stay in the echo chamber of bible study groups or otherwise taking something on faith (another evil concept where one is expected to dispense of their 'gift' of rationality to accept a proposition as true because someone else says it is).

    Sometimes it takes really stepping out of THAT perspective when trying to understand the world for one to understand how insanely ludicrous Christianity is.

  2. #32
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    I should have said 'ludicrous and destructive.'

  3. #33
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I know what it looks like from inside the Christian perspective. Been there and done that. It is easy to continue to believe it by choosing to stay in the echo chamber of bible study groups or otherwise taking something on faith (another evil concept where one is expected to dispense of their 'gift' of rationality to accept a proposition as true because someone else says it is).

    Sometimes it takes really stepping out of THAT perspective when trying to understand the world for one to understand how insanely ludicrous Christianity is.
    You seem to paint with an awfully broad brush for one so enlightened.

    Surely you have seen enough of the world to know that there is no "echo chamber" in Christianity as a whole.

    Do you continue to question your own faith, or lack thereof, or have you fallen into the echo chamber of the committed faithless ones?

  4. #34
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I know what it looks like from inside the Christian perspective. Been there and done that. It is easy to continue to believe it by choosing to stay in the echo chamber of bible study groups or otherwise taking something on faith (another evil concept where one is expected to dispense of their 'gift' of rationality to accept a proposition as true because someone else says it is).

    Sometimes it takes really stepping out of THAT perspective when trying to understand the world for one to understand how insanely ludicrous Christianity is.
    How do you account for those who know that God exists? To call Christianity "insanely ludicrous" is an indictment on the intelligence of Christians. In an evaluation of the Christian makeup, you will find significant evidence to the contrary. Do you believe all Christians are idiots? Insane? Unintelligent? Are you sure that you aren't just missing something? Not to be argumentative...just curious of your opinion of Christians for having faith.

    And...how do you account for the fact that only 14% of the world's population today are classified as atheist, agnostic, non-religious, or non-theist? I bet, if you calculate that percentage across history, the percentage is even lower. That puts you in the minority. What are the chances that the 14% minority has it right?
    Last edited by RhythmDawg; 11-23-2015 at 02:33 PM.

  5. #35
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    I love my children...and I know with all that I am that they love me back. How? I have evidence. They show me they love me. But wait...they have also lied to me. They have disobeyed me. They have hurt me. They have tried to deceive me. And they are aware of what they do every time they do it. So, how do I really know that their love for me is real? I have faith. I believe. I know. Where does their love come from? It comes from God. Wait...survival instinct you say? Expression of love is not necessary for survival.

    Just some thoughts...

  6. #36
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    I love my children...and I know with all that I am that they love me back. How? I have evidence. They show me they love me. But wait...they have also lied to me. They have disobeyed me. They have hurt me. They have tried to deceive me. And they are aware of what they do every time they do it. So, how do I really know that their love for me is real? I have faith. I believe. I know. Where does their love come from? It comes from God. Wait...survival instinct you say? Expression of love is not necessary for survival.

    Just some thoughts...
    Great post.

  7. #37
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    How do you account for those who know that God exists? To call Christianity "insanely ludicrous" is an indictment on the intelligence of Christians. In an evaluation of the Christian makeup, you will find significant evidence to the contrary. Do you believe all Christians are idiots? Insane? Unintelligent? Are you sure that you aren't just missing something? Not to be argumentative...just curious of your opinion of Christians for having faith.

    And...how do you account for the fact that only 14% of the world's population today are classified as atheist, agnostic, non-religious, or non-theist? I bet, if you calculate that percentage across history, the percentage is even lower. That puts you in the minority. What are the chances that the 14% minority has it right?

    Been there and done that. It is not a matter of intelligence. Their are smart and dumb people on all sides of religions.

    How do you account for all the Muslims, Jews, Hindu, et al that believe in other gods not consistent with Christianity?

    People believe in God because of their culture (which is why different religions dominate in different parts of the world), and most choose to believe in religion over atheism because they have a hard time accepting their own mortality (for some reason their non existence before birth bothers them less than their non existence after death, but there are surely evolutionary reasons that we have a hard time accepting death). It is similar to the reason we spend foolish amounts of money on end of life care.

  8. #38
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    I love my children...and I know with all that I am that they love me back. How? I have evidence. They show me they love me. But wait...they have also lied to me. They have disobeyed me. They have hurt me. They have tried to deceive me. And they are aware of what they do every time they do it. So, how do I really know that their love for me is real? I have faith. I believe. I know. Where does their love come from? It comes from God. Wait...survival instinct you say? Expression of love is not necessary for survival.

    Just some thoughts...

    Your children probably do love you and you probably have reason to know that because you relate it to the way you felt about your parents and I am assuming your kids have demonstrated other actions and have said things that confirmed your expectations. Plus you obviously understand that kids lie and disobey, so you don't interpret that as evidence that they don't love you. That is a whole different level of educated belief than the belief in an entity that you have not seen with your eyes or heard with your ears, but only felt by your emotions.

    Btw, not all kids love their parents, though most do.

    But you probably wouldn't kill your kids for being disobedient. Certainly not with fire and brimstone.

  9. #39
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by skilldawg View Post
    You seem to paint with an awfully broad brush for one so enlightened.

    Surely you have seen enough of the world to know that there is no "echo chamber" in Christianity as a whole.

    Do you continue to question your own faith, or lack thereof, or have you fallen into the echo chamber of the committed faithless ones?
    I don't have an echo chamber. I am usually the lone voice. I don't really think I am any more enlightened in the sense of intelligence. But I do give myself some credit for being able to admit when I am wrong and accepting facts as true that can be utterly despairing for others to accept. I really think that is the difference. Some are eternally hopeful when there is little reason to be. I am more inclined to accept things for the way they seem to be.

  10. #40
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    I love my children...and I know with all that I am that they love me back. How? I have evidence. They show me they love me. But wait...they have also lied to me. They have disobeyed me. They have hurt me. They have tried to deceive me. And they are aware of what they do every time they do it. So, how do I really know that their love for me is real? I have faith. I believe. I know. Where does their love come from? It comes from God. Wait...survival instinct you say? Expression of love is not necessary for survival.

    Just some thoughts...
    And another point. That feeling of love from your children probably aids in the bonding instinct that you have, which is necessary to help kids survive to a reproductive age to continue the species. Surely, one doesn't have to think to hard to understand the evolutionary benefits of love.

  11. #41
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    To kill babies and kids? That is twisted thinking.
    I think you are selectively using stuff to suit your narrative. You wouldn't by chance work for the Hillary Campaign 2016 would you? The twisted way of thinking may be denying something that you cannot totally comprehend.

  12. #42
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by KSDAWG View Post
    I think you are selectively using stuff to suit your narrative. You wouldn't by chance work for the Hillary Campaign 2016 would you? The twisted way of thinking may be denying something that you cannot totally comprehend.
    So you are saying that killing innocent babies can be okay under some circumstances?

  13. #43
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Because if so, it sounds like you should work for the Clinton campaign.

  14. #44
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    In order to understand the Bible, one needs to go back and look at the history of why it was written. It was written because a Roman Emperor commanded Monks to write it to bring his people together because he felt like he was losing control of his empire. Only a few people back then gathered in churches as they do today and they all had different books and gospels they liked to read in their homes. The monks went throughout the country gathering those writings. The ones they liked, they put in the Bible, and the ones they didn't, they burned. Some of the writings were buried before the monks could get them and were discovered hundreds of years later. Some of these were The Dead Sea Scrolls, The Book of Enoch, The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, The Gospel of Thomas, and The Gospel of Philip. The Gospel of Mary Magdalene and The Book of Enoch are two of the most amazing writings I've ever read.

    The Bible is full of contradictions and duplication and some of the strangest stuff you will ever read. Here's two strange verses in Numbers: Chapter 31 verses 17 and 18, "Now, therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But, all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Were the monks drinking a lot of wine when this was written? There are lots of strange verses like this throughout the Bible. I would suggest that everybody should read the Bible to find out what's in it, or at least read the first four chapters. Find one that is an old print that is a duplicate of the King James version that was first written in English in 1539. Many of the newer Bibles have had a lot of editing. Thomas Paine, one of our founding fathers, wrote a really good book called "The Age of Reason" where he discusses a lot of the strange verses in the Bible.
    No.

    If you're referring to the First Council of Nicaea, then I think you may want to check your sources.

  15. #45
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    Re: Old Testament Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Been there and done that. It is not a matter of intelligence. Their are smart and dumb people on all sides of religions.

    How do you account for all the Muslims, Jews, Hindu, et al that believe in other gods not consistent with Christianity?

    People believe in God because of their culture (which is why different religions dominate in different parts of the world), and most choose to believe in religion over atheism because they have a hard time accepting their own mortality (for some reason their non existence before birth bothers them less than their non existence after death, but there are surely evolutionary reasons that we have a hard time accepting death). It is similar to the reason we spend foolish amounts of money on end of life care.
    I was noting the distinction between those who believe in a deity and those who don't...not which deity.

    And people don't believe in God because of culture, or else evangelism or proselytizing in any religion would be a total failure.

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