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Thread: President Trump

  1. #451
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I didn't lump all conservatives together. If you aren't falling for the fake news stories I am obviously not talking about you. People like Hannity that peddle this fake news are the ones with no credibility.
    I could refer to you as daft....ahem, but I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt, and provide this info for you (which I have before, but..) just in case you honestly don't know. Here goes:

    Hannity states he is NOT a journalist. It's NOT his job, his goal, his charge to "report the news." He is a conservative talk show host with a very pronounced bias, a conservative bias. FOX has journalists who report news. If you bothered to watch, which clearly you mustn't, you would know that the talk show host(s) will send it to someone else "for the news." This is true for all of FOX, but Hannity calls more attention to his status as a "biased host."

    Again, we see you are wrong. (no "news" there)

  2. #452
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    That article is just useful for pointing out the timeline and the fact that the family fully rejects the conspiracy theory. That fact is very telling. It also addresses the timing and motivation of the Wikileaks angle. Points out some rather obvious issues relating to Rich's lack of access to the emails, as well as the police/FBI custody and review of his computer.

    I could post a lot more of debunking sources on here - but none of these wnd/breitbart/foxnews crowd would read them. What I read in that Vox article is consistent with what everyone outside the alt-right/hannity crowd is saying on the subject.

    But the level of insanity I am seeing from Tech grads on this subject is deeply disturbing. The partisanship of the news sources that conservatives are reading today is leading to more misinformation than I have ever seen before. It is this schism of alternate facts/universes that Russia continues to leverage to fight democracies, and the irony is not lost on me that our supposed anti-commie ranks have become unwitting accomplices to this communist/socialist country's efforts to destabilize democracies and make Russia stronger and more influential.

    Not surprising that Russia itself is pushing this Rich conspiracy theory too now.

    You guys need to wake the hell up to this problem. I know you like to argue for conservative politics, and Russia does too.
    I agree with what you are saying but if you are going to say it you have got to realize that your perspective is seriously skewed left. You try to talk from an independent position, but you are being very disingenuous. You are talking your "independent" centralist position, skewing it way left, and trying to represent it as the middle.

  3. #453
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    I agree with what you are saying but if you are going to say it you have got to realize that your perspective is seriously skewed left. You try to talk from an independent position, but you are being very disingenuous. You are talking your "independent" centralist position, skewing it way left, and trying to represent it as the middle.
    I am an independent but I don't know that I am a centrist.

  4. #454
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    I agree with what you are saying but if you are going to say it you have got to realize that your perspective is seriously skewed left. You try to talk from an independent position, but you are being very disingenuous. You are talking your "independent" centralist position, skewing it way left, and trying to represent it as the middle.
    Who could make that critique but someone who was unbiased and unskewed themselves (something I imagine you are not claiming about yourself)? Skews and biases are, by nature, relative.

    Regarding this particular issue, to call guisslap's perspective leftist, you would need to show that he's ignoring facts in order to push the left's agenda. All I've read are refutations of conspiracy theories and statements of fact (sure, with editorial comments for good measure). Facts and timelines have no political camp.

    You can use a "leftist" source to expose facts without being a "leftist".

  5. #455
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    Inudsu posted in another thread that you went to seminary school. Aren't you supposed to be a preacher after you go to seminary school?
    Tribalism and fake news all so well displayed in one post stream. I'll explain once I get to my computer.

  6. #456
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I didn't lump all conservatives together. If you aren't falling for the fake news stories I am obviously not talking about you. People like Hannity that peddle this fake news are the ones with no credibility.
    For every Hannity there are 4 liberal sites spreading lies.

    We've been hearing about Trump's connections to and collusion with Russia for
    6 months, yet not a shred of credible evidence has ever been presented.

  7. #457
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I am an independent but I don't know that I am a centrist.
    You are not centrist, but you are trying to position yourself as one.

  8. #458
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    Who could make that critique but someone who was unbiased and unskewed themselves (something I imagine you are not claiming about yourself)? Skews and biases are, by nature, relative.

    Regarding this particular issue, to call guisslap's perspective leftist, you would need to show that he's ignoring facts in order to push the left's agenda. All I've read are refutations of conspiracy theories and statements of fact (sure, with editorial comments for good measure). Facts and timelines have no political camp.

    You can use a "leftist" source to expose facts without being a "leftist".
    That's pretty shortsighted. Plenty of people are capable of observing and appreciating reality from their non-centrist position. I'm on the conservative side of center, but I'm not trying to use criticism to claim I'm something I'm not.

    And my point was that what he posted exposed no facts, yet it was presented as a definitive debunking. That is what he is doing to push his leftist agenda. He is ignoring the fact that we don't know all the facts and, like that article, is using assumption and speculation as fact.

  9. #459
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by glm47 View Post
    For every Hannity there are 4 liberal sites spreading lies.

    We've been hearing about Trump's connections to and collusion with Russia for
    6 months, yet not a shred of credible evidence has ever been presented.
    The liberal sites have no audience on this forum, and criticizing them on here just contributes to the echo chamber. If someone was creating a lot of threads with fake stories from leftist sources, I will join in criticizing them.

    As far as collusion with Russia, the hearings are going on - though they have been interrupted with side show antics led by the Trump administration, most notably the ordeal with Nunes causing him to have recuse himself and then apparently some inappropriate efforts by the Trump administration to have certain high level officials to make public declarations about there being no evidence of collusion involving Trump. The latest involves Kushner potentially setting up backchannel communication sources - which, if true, provides further context to understand why the CIA started off with such low trust in the administration.

    These investigations don't happen without credible evidence - that evidence is held by the intelligence community and I am sure some of it is still being developed.

    Anyway, given time, it will be sorted out. Mueller will see if there was any criminal wrongdoing and Congress will investigate - to the extent they can - what Russia has done and will continue to do to threaten our and other democracies.

    This is important work even if Trump is cleared.

  10. #460
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    These investigations don't happen without credible evidence


    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Russia has done and will continue to do to threaten our and other democracies.
    This has yet to be shown or explained in any way, even theoretical.

  11. #461
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    The liberal sites have no audience on this forum, and criticizing them on here just contributes to the echo chamber. If someone was creating a lot of threads with fake stories from leftist sources, I will join in criticizing them.

    As far as collusion with Russia, the hearings are going on - though they have been interrupted with side show antics led by the Trump administration, most notably the ordeal with Nunes causing him to have recuse himself and then apparently some inappropriate efforts by the Trump administration to have certain high level officials to make public declarations about there being no evidence of collusion involving Trump. The latest involves Kushner potentially setting up backchannel communication sources - which, if true, provides further context to understand why the CIA started off with such low trust in the administration.

    These investigations don't happen without credible evidence - that evidence is held by the intelligence community and I am sure some of it is still being developed.

    Anyway, given time, it will be sorted out. Mueller will see if there was any criminal wrongdoing and Congress will investigate - to the extent they can - what Russia has done and will continue to do to threaten our and other democracies.

    This is important work even if Trump is cleared.
    The problem is that you guys...yeah you included...have made a judgement before anything is proven, and its happening because you don't like Trump. Even if evidence exists, it doesn't mean any of it is true. Just because there are investigations doesn't mean any of it is true. In the event that anything is proven true, it doesn't automatically implicate anyone.

  12. #462
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JuBru View Post


    This has yet to be shown or explained in any way, even theoretical.
    Well, for starters, the IC is completely convinced that they attempted to tilt the election against HRC and to Trump. They do this in other countries as well.

  13. #463
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    The problem is that you guys...yeah you included...have made a judgement before anything is proven, and its happening because you don't like Trump. Even if evidence exists, it doesn't mean any of it is true. Just because there are investigations doesn't mean any of it is true. In the event that anything is proven true, it doesn't automatically implicate anyone.
    When it comes to matters of "intelligence" we will likely never be told the facts in enough granularity to satisfy anyone that is willing to maintain doubt. To do so would likely compromise sources and methods.

    But my opinions are sufficiently moldable that I am willing to change them as new information comes to light. I think it is a virtue to admit when you are wrong, so I am happy to do so whenever the opportunity arises.

  14. #464
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Well, for starters, the IC is completely convinced that they attempted to tilt the election against HRC and to Trump. They do this in other countries as well.
    As they have done for decades. Us, too.

    And that does not explain how Russia has "threatened' democracy or anything else by doing it, especially our own. The POTUS is not ruler. Even the wet-dream of the left of Trump trying to take power, he doesn't have the means or support.

  15. #465
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by JuBru View Post
    As they have done for decades. Us, too.

    And that does not explain how Russia has "threatened' democracy or anything else by doing it, especially our own. The POTUS is not ruler. Even the wet-dream of the left of Trump trying to take power, he doesn't have the means or support.
    Uh, swinging an election does destroy democracy - democracy is all about the election. That people have a voice over how they are governed and there is a battle over ideas - not facts, and not where one side has an improper advantage.

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