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Thread: President Trump

  1. #631
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Sounds like you guys are the ones that want to treat HRC more strictly under the laws than normal people - even high ranking officials - are. See the USNews and WaPo articles above regarding prosecutions for mishandling classified information.
    Really?

    The law, as written, is clear and concise. It states that the sharing or causing of the sharing of national security information is a felony. There is no "intent" provision in the law. Krooked Killary "caused" the sharing of information when her unauthorized server was hacked. And then that libtard-hack, Comey, stated that in his "opinion" KKK had no "intent" to share national security information, and said that right after he quoted the law that to be guilty of the felony, one does not have to have "intent."

    The sailor who took pics of his work station on a nuclear sub is finishing up his one-year sentence in federal prison. He has been discharged from the Navy, his career in ruins. He is now a felon...good luck getting a job, and all because he took pics that he had "no intention" of sharing to compromise national security. When asked why he took the pics, with his phone, he said it was to a have a keepsake and maybe someday show his family what he did (his duties). The pics never made it off the sub since his phone was confiscated and because there is no service under the sea that allows cell phones to work. Meaning, he had no opportunity to email the pics or send them in anyway. Did he do something wrong? Yes. He knew the policies, of the Navy, not to take pics on a nuclear sub, and did it anyway. He loved his job on a nuclear sub, is a truly patriotic American who allowed his personal zeal to cloud his judgment. And....he is paying the price.

    How restrictive are laws on those who serve on a nuclear sub? Well, I have two acquaintances who served on a sub, both have been honorably discharged after 10-15 year Navy careers and are now living their lives, etc...and, like many others, are still restricted in what they can do. For instance, they are banned from traveling to certain countries, like Russia and China, and others. If they try to travel to a restricted country, even on a vacation, the FBI will arrest them.

    Anyway, intent or not, KKK violated a federal law, period. You and I would be at Leavenworth. Which for me, would be doubly bad since my brother-in-law is a civilian consultant for the Army at nearby Fort Leavenworth and that rascal would make it a point to come to the prison just to harass me.

  2. #632
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    You don't listen very well do you? The Supreme Court has said that criminal laws that don't have an "intent" requirement are unconstitutional if they impose a significant imprisonment penalty. It violates, inter alia, the 8th Amendment.

    That is why the DOJ doesn't push this law on "simple mishandling" of classified information. Even if the law is written broadly, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it trumps laws that fail to live up to its constitutional standards.

    http://www.raysemko.com/2016/05/27/n...ear-submarine/

    Are you talking about the guy that destroyed his laptops?

    Remember, it is not the crime, but the cover up that will really get you. Trump should take heed.

  3. #633
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    You don't listen very well do you? The Supreme Court has said that criminal laws that don't have an "intent" requirement are unconstitutional if they impose a significant imprisonment penalty. It violates, inter alia, the 8th Amendment.

    That is why the DOJ doesn't push this law on "simple mishandling" of classified information. Even if the law is written broadly, the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and it trumps laws that fail to live up to its constitutional standards.
    .
    Did the DOJ decide no intent or did Comey decide?

  4. #634
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Did the DOJ decide no intent or did Comey decide?
    In the case of HRC? Based on the accounts that we have heard so far. FBI ended the investigation with a finding of no intent. From reading the tea leaves, it seems as though Comey took this unusual approach because of Russian fake news (that he knew was false) that would implicate the DOJ, and the FBI did not want to have to burn their sources and methods to refute the fake news.

  5. #635
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by RhythmDawg View Post
    That's pretty shortsighted. Plenty of people are capable of observing and appreciating reality from their non-centrist position. I'm on the conservative side of center, but I'm not trying to use criticism to claim I'm something I'm not.

    And my point was that what he posted exposed no facts, yet it was presented as a definitive debunking. That is what he is doing to push his leftist agenda. He is ignoring the fact that we don't know all the facts and, like that article, is using assumption and speculation as fact.
    Sorry to dig this back up, but I wanted to interact with it as I am interested in your view, but I'm not convinced it's workable in practice.

    First, I would call my assertion cynical, not short-sighted. I think that you and guiss could, perhaps make the conclusive statements that you made about his position and his "agenda" were you to agree upon a set of meanings for the words you're using. That said, your standard for knowledge (which, in my mind is synonymous with proof) is so high that reality is rarely discernible...particularly in the short term (meaning 4-8 years).

    So what happens? We reserve judgement and give massive benefit of the doubt to those who are pushing an agenda we prefer while we are supremely skeptical (even if we don't say that we've concluded one thing or another) of those who are pushing an agenda we don't prefer.

    As an example, there were certainly facts in the Vox article. Were they "all the facts"? Absolutely not...we'll NEVER have all the facts. Even as you've been privy to some higher level discussions on the healthcare system, do you really think you've ever had all the facts about any large and complex issue?

    This is all of us. Guiss doesn't feel compelled to push back against Salty because there will be plenty of push back on him. You don't call dawg80 or DonW to task when they post something silly or unsubstantiated. That's certainly your prerogative, but I think it shows that objectivity, particularly as it relates to politics (or religion for that matter) is a fantasy. I thought Trump was a bad choice. I think he'll damage conservatism in the long-run. Have I concluded anything? I guess it depends on your definitions, but my conclusions are only pertinent when it comes to what I do in the voting booth. I think we can both agree that no one will have all the pertinent facts on Trump or his opponent(s) by 2020.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  6. #636
    Champ saltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your timesaltydawg Ultimate jerk and not worth your time saltydawg's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post

    Krooked Killary committed a felony.
    Damn right she did. Murdering over 100 people without once being arrested. It's a crying shame.

    "All roads lead to Putin" -- Thomas Jefferson



  7. #637
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    You don't call dawg80 or DonW to task when they post something silly or unsubstantiated.
    Say what!? I never post anything silly or unsubstantiated. Well, okay, I sometimes post things I personally don't believe myself, just to get a rise out of someone. It's stirring the pot; having a lil fun. And I will NEVER reveal which are which.

  8. #638
    Champ dawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond reputedawg80 has a reputation beyond repute dawg80's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by saltydawg View Post
    Damn right she did. Murdering over 100 people without once being arrested. It's a crying shame.
    And I think salty is doing that very thing right here.

  9. #639
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by WWDog View Post
    Gross negligence that would have put others behind bars. The documents you sign when you get access to classified material say nothing about intent. Simple mishandling of highly classified documents like having them on an unauthorized server will get those not who don't get special favors time in federal prison. At the time the classified information was found, I believe that Hillary and her staff weren't even authorized access to the types of information that was on her server. Why haven't we seen investigations into Obama and his staff's alleged spying on US citizens. Rice's unmasking of the names of US citizens. That and Hillary's people mishandling (no intent needed) are the only sure crimes that we know in this investigation of Trump people and they are being ignored in favor of mere accusations. There is an imbalance in what is happening and hopefully everyday people will see.
    I agree that anyone who has held any secret or above clearance has gone through all of the training probably looks at this as a huge deal. They make sure you do. Guiss makes a good point though. There are almost no cases where anyone was actually charged with mishandling classified documents and those that do get charged are usually able to plea down to almost nothing. The few people who have gotten significant jail time have done so because of an attempt to cover up. I think you could certainly argue that the private server itself showed intent, and that she lied when she said she never knowingly sent classified documents but James Comey didn't see it that way. I also don't think it was his decision to make, but it is what it is.

  10. #640
    Champ detltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond reputedetltu has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    . I thought Trump was a bad choice. I think he'll damage conservatism in the long-run.
    I agree with this. It's funny. I heard a clip of Rush Limbaugh the other day where he was talking about how the Democrats may not win a major election for XX years and how they have no leadership. I would ask. Do the republicans have any leadership right now? I don't see it if they do.

  11. #641
    2011 Pick 'Em Champion johnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond reputejohnnylightnin has a reputation beyond repute johnnylightnin's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    And I will NEVER reveal which are which.


    I wouldn't expect any less!
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  12. #642
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    I would ask. Do the republicans have any leadership right now? I don't see it if they do.
    Not with liberal relics like Graham and McCain standing in the way.

    Less than 50% of the Republicans in Congress are true conservatives. Most of them are more cowardly than the democrats.

  13. #643
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    Looks like it is about to get real.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/31/politi....html?adkey=bn

  14. #644
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    Re: President Trump

    Relevant (to the handling of classified information talk):

    https://cyberresilience.io/spy-games-39a4a2e8668a

  15. #645
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: President Trump

    "the source" has already told CNN what Comey will say. A news source as reputable as CNN would never report undocumented facts ahead of time would they?

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