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  1. #121
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Of course everyone has heard of Bigfoot.



    Never liked the 1974 Ford F-250. But at least this one redeemed the model slightly by crushing things.

  2. #122
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Crickets....

    The silence of the evolutionists speaks volumes.

  3. #123
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Did you say something that someone was supposed to respond to?

  4. #124
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!


  5. #125
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Epistemology is the branch of philosophy that deals with knowledge. Many thinkers have said many different things over time regarding how we sort out what we know, so if you have interest in the subject that is a good jumping off point into that abyss. You could get lost and found a hundred different times and ways in there.

    You can follow the path of relativism, skepticism, nihilism, subjectivism, objectivism and everything in between - all of which can be consistent within their own view.

    For me knowledge has value if it is useful. Epistemological relatavism and nihilism - even if they are logically defensible are not very useful. The fact that they are concerned with being logically defensible is also their inherent weakness, they still want to be judged on some objective criteria. Actually - it is not the ideas themselves but that is a reflection upon how our consciousness is well adapted to gain knowledge through reason.

    The branch of philosophy that is concerned with the nature of reality is metaphysics. So you can see that epistemology and metaphysics are related because presumably epistemology should provide a basis for understanding metaphysics.

    So you could take a nihilist or relativist approach and say that reality is not truly knowable and that might be all well and good, academically, but that is a horribly useless philosophy. Sure you can geek out on message boards about it, but it will not aid you in life as far as I can tell.

    Similarly you can throw into question every sensory observation you have ever made as being a possible hallucination or unreliable indicator of the metaphysical world and that leads down the same nihilistic paths.

    If the only way you can attack an idea is by pursuing one of these strategies of nihilism or subjectivism, you are simply shifting the debate to the forum of where nothing is knowable.

    When we are talking about a concept like evolution or gravity - neither of these concepts are things that you see (they are not precepts). We observe their effect. Same thing with addition. It is a concept. Does that make these less valid or reliable than percepts (which one could also argue are also nothing more than our brains conceptualization of the more digital signals that our sense organs send the brain)?

    So evolution is just a concept that is based on other concepts. In that way it is no different than other things that we know - if I can validate a concept because of other concepts I know to be valid from my experience - objectively, it is rational to accept that concept in the context for which it is known.
    With the board going down and life getting in the way I never followed up on this discussion and I apologize. I have lost some interest but I feel a response is warranted.

    I wasn't trying to go full matrix on you, although I can see were you would make that mistake.

    You call faith an act of irrationality. I'm simply asking for what the qualification is for determining if something is irrational or not. You yourself believe in a lot of things you have not personally experienced or verified. And they don't all fit your "useful" criteria.
    Dawg80 believes in Bigfoot apparently. I am very skeptical. If I find myself out In the woods face to face with Bigfoot I will become one of the crazies in your eyes. It won't change weather or not Bigfoot exists. It wouldn't be useful to me as it would actually ruin my credibility. It also wouldn't change your mind as I'm already a "religionist".

  6. #126
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Apparently, you don't know what you're talking about. Bigfoot = evolution in my opinion. I acknowledge it is possible both are real, but neither has been proven to exist. One thing Bigfoot has going for it, that evolution doesn't, at least there are people willing to count themselves as witnesses to Bigfoot. No one has witnessed a horse becoming a whale.

    Believers of both utilize elements of science to try to prove the existence of it. On that show "Finding Bigfoot" they use all kinds of technology to gather evidence, and reasoning to analyze it. They even have a resident skeptic (Reneae) who questions everything and everyone.

    But, if one is to accept evolution is real, then Bigfoot has to be accepted too, and placed somewhere in the "evolutionary tree." So, in trying to be a good sport and show support for the zealots, I asked the experts, the evolutionists, where BF fits. I am disappointed none have addressed my sincere question.

  7. #127
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!


  8. #128
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    How about this discovery, seven new planets in a nearby solar system. http://www.vox.com/2017/2/22/1469803...ery-trappist-1

  9. #129
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Quote Originally Posted by DONW View Post
    How about this discovery, seven new planets in a nearby solar system. http://www.vox.com/2017/2/22/1469803...ery-trappist-1
    That was gonna be my next point. Anyone who believes in evolution, has to also support the notion of UFOs. And while I have never personally seen a Bigfoot, I did experience a UFO sighting, back in 1974 (? I think that was the year). I am NOT saying it was an alien spaceship. I am saying it was strange, nothing like I have ever seen before. It was boomerang shaped, huge, and sliding the sky very fast and absolutely silent. About a week later a story broke of two fishermen abducted at Bay St. Louis and they described the ship exactly like what we (myself and two friends) saw.

    So, given the size of the universe. Given that evolutionists believe life began on Earth by some happenstance of amino acids forming proteins, then one cell creatures (no one can explain how those proteins knew what to do), and eventually to the most advanced creatures on Earth: soccer players! It is ridiculous to think that such an occurrence could happen only on Earth. There must be thousands of planets where the conditions are right to form life....from non-life (a contradiction to the definition of life, BTW), and it is equally plausible to think that at least one planet got like a million year head start on us, and are now so technologically advanced, that space travel is no more difficult than driving to the nearest Dollar General is for us. Makes sense they have visited Earth many times.

  10. #130
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Yeah, the odds seem good that there is life out there somewhere. It probably did not evolve exactly the exact same way as it did here. I think you are right, as well, that there are probably some places that life is older than it is here and it would stand to reason that it could be more "advanced".

    Where it starts to get into more harder-to-defend speculation is where you assume that they would have the same motives and interests as us (for example would they be interested in traveling to Earth). Perhaps they would view that as boring as watching grass grow (I.e., watching soccer). Their "intelligence" could have entirely different goals owing to the environment in which it evolved.

    The other challenging aspect of the speculation is the large distances of separation between our planets. Maybe it is possible to develop technology that can traverse that distance in a "reasonable" period of time if you are much more advanced than us. But then maybe the physical limitations are just too significant to make it practical to attempt.

  11. #131
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    I did reply.

  12. #132
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    A very reasonable response. You should apply the same reason to the "theory of evolution." Look at the terms you used:

    "odds seem good"
    "probably" (several times)
    "harder-to-defend speculation"
    "where you assume"
    "challenging aspect of speculation"

    All of these refer to the so-called science of evolution too.

    Problem is, for you, you are so far convinced that evolution is real you can't step back and look at it objectively. Well, there are UFO and Bigfoot believers too. They are just as convinced those are real as you are about evolution.

    Let me be clear...I do NOT KNOW if any of them are real, or not. Could be that evolution, Bigfoot, and UFOs visiting Earth are all true! Could be that none of them are real. My only point is, and has been, that real science does not support and especially PROVE any of them to be real.

    Bigfoot and UFOs can be easily proven to be real....just produce one! Show us! Evolution, not so easily proven.

    While I'm at it, let's throw in man-made global warming. This is worst than evolution. Horrible, horrible so-called science. The best evidence available discounts the existence of man-made global warming. Even when the best case scenarios exist to help global warming zealots make their case....the results of the research points the other way. Too bad for them.

    Does this mean that humans can't pollute the environment? Nope. We most definitely can. In a micro-sense, yes. We can pollute a river. We can (and have) cause SMOG over big cities. Very, very isolated conditions that do not threaten the planet as a whole. One average-sized volcano does more "damage" to the planet in a few months than 25 years of human activity ever has. The real tragedy of the GW hoax is it has diverted attention and resources away from real problems. Such as crappy drinking water for a majority of the world's population and millions of Americans too.

    I may be just a lone voice howling in the wilderness, but I will continue to advocate for REAL SCIENCE.

  13. #133
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Not remotely the same. The amount of evidence for evolution makes it certain. Did you watch the vid that was linked earlier?

  14. #134
    Champ DONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Yeah, the odds seem good that there is life out there somewhere. It probably did not evolve exactly the exact same way as it did here. I think you are right, as well, that there are probably some places that life is older than it is here and it would stand to reason that it could be more "advanced".

    Where it starts to get into more harder-to-defend speculation is where you assume that they would have the same motives and interests as us (for example would they be interested in traveling to Earth). Perhaps they would view that as boring as watching grass grow (I.e., watching soccer). Their "intelligence" could have entirely different goals owing to the environment in which it evolved.

    The other challenging aspect of the speculation is the large distances of separation between our planets. Maybe it is possible to develop technology that can traverse that distance in a "reasonable" period of time if you are much more advanced than us. But then maybe the physical limitations are just too significant to make it practical to attempt.
    That's an interesting thought on different civilizations having different goals. Our civilization has been dominated by religion for the last 2000 years. What would our civilization be like if the Bible and Koran had never been written? One of my favorite heros and authors, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a former muslim, was asked what advice she would give muslims. She said, " Stop investing in life after death, and invest more in life before death." Where would we be today if Nikola Tesla had not discovered alternating current." Would somebody else have discovered it? One thing for sure is that we're not going to discover it if we're praying to a mythical god all day.

    If any of you ever visit south Florida, go to Homestead, just north of Miami and check out the Coral Castle. The Coral Castle was built in the 1920's by a guy that stood only 5 ft tall and weighed about 100 pounds. He made all of his tools from stuff he got out of a junkyard and he only worked at night. He cut huge blocks of coral out of the ground and built the coral castle with these blocks, some which weighed several thousand pounds. The gate or door, which was about 8 ft tall and weighed about 10,000 pounds had a one inch rod run through it's center and was mounted on top and bottom bearings he got out of the junkyard. Nobody knows how he was able to do this. He said he was originally from Latvia and he was building it for his girlfriend back in Latvia. What did this little guy know that we have yet to discover? It's not a hoax because I've been there and seen it.

    In 1974, Josef Blumrich, a NASA scientist, wrote a book called "The Spaceships of Ezekiel" after his son had told him about reading a book called Chariots of the Gods where the author had said that Ezekiel had not only seen some type of flying craft, but, had also ridden in it. On the cover of Blumrich's book is a picture of the flying craft as described by Ezekiel. It has 4 legs with propellers that looks similar to today's drones and the pilot sits in the top and the bottom glows red which is some type of reactor. Blumrich said it most likely ran on hydrogen, an element common all over the universe. I just noticed in the newspaper two days ago that a Chinese company has built a one man helicopter with 4 rotors that Dubai is going to use as a taxi. I guess nobody paid attention to Blumrich's design, which he includes all of the calculations for in his book, for 42 years. Blumrich praised Ezekiel for his detailed description of the craft. He also consulted with Biblical scholars.

  15. #135
    Champ DONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond reputeDONW has a reputation beyond repute
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    Re: Real Science making a comeback!

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    A very reasonable response. You should apply the same reason to the "theory of evolution." Look at the terms you used:

    "odds seem good"
    "probably" (several times)
    "harder-to-defend speculation"
    "where you assume"
    "challenging aspect of speculation"

    All of these refer to the so-called science of evolution too.

    Problem is, for you, you are so far convinced that evolution is real you can't step back and look at it objectively. Well, there are UFO and Bigfoot believers too. They are just as convinced those are real as you are about evolution.

    Let me be clear...I do NOT KNOW if any of them are real, or not. Could be that evolution, Bigfoot, and UFOs visiting Earth are all true! Could be that none of them are real. My only point is, and has been, that real science does not support and especially PROVE any of them to be real.

    Bigfoot and UFOs can be easily proven to be real....just produce one! Show us! Evolution, not so easily proven.

    While I'm at it, let's throw in man-made global warming. This is worst than evolution. Horrible, horrible so-called science. The best evidence available discounts the existence of man-made global warming. Even when the best case scenarios exist to help global warming zealots make their case....the results of the research points the other way. Too bad for them.

    Does this mean that humans can't pollute the environment? Nope. We most definitely can. In a micro-sense, yes. We can pollute a river. We can (and have) cause SMOG over big cities. Very, very isolated conditions that do not threaten the planet as a whole. One average-sized volcano does more "damage" to the planet in a few months than 25 years of human activity ever has. The real tragedy of the GW hoax is it has diverted attention and resources away from real problems. Such as crappy drinking water for a majority of the world's population and millions of Americans too.

    I may be just a lone voice howling in the wilderness, but I will continue to advocate for REAL SCIENCE.
    In July of 2010, around 10 PM, I was sitting on the steps of my pool looking just over the top of the pine trees in my neighbors back yard, when I saw a bright swirling light just above the trees that only last about 2-3 seconds. At first I thought it was a helicopter that had turned on and off it's searchlight, but, it didn't make a sound of any kind. Then it appeared that something with one dim light on came out of the bright light and moved across the sky at a very fast speed and did not make a sound.

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