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green dot. The Pope tries to focus on what Jesus stood for. Don comes thru with usual stupid post. Organized religion is getting tougher to sustaind-- folks like Don lean more to far left belief that religion is for idiots -- having spent 3 years in seminary I actually rebelled to a small degree when we switched mass to English -- 1.2 billion Catholics --poor Don has very low opinion of the 3,200 Catholics in Conway ( 65,000 population -5% Catholic).Originally Posted by dawg80
I quit believing in a fiery Hell 52 years ago. I would never worship a "father" who created a child and tortured him for eternity .Period. think about it, what kind of Loving God would create an Eternity of torture.
I was taught 50 plus years ago that Heaven is where we reconnect with ones we love and hell is being kept away from our loved ones. Monsenior Wakeman. Nothing new about questioning what constitutes hell
God we are taught is our father and what father would burn his children??
God doesn’t choose hell for anyone. People choose hell for themselves. And yes hell is a place we go if we choose eternal separation from God. Hell is not just a state of mind.
"the abomination of separation"
How can Get d be just if wrongs are never punished?
I have a real problem with priests sexually molesting little kids and you should, too. I don't know if I actually know any Catholics here in Conway. I don't go around discussing religion with people unless they want to discuss it with me. I don't see religion as a right or left thing, but, I'm about as conservative as it gets about politics and the constitution. Read some of my post on this if you think I'm a liberal. There is no mention of the bible god in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the Declaration, and James Madison, who wrote the Constitution, were Deists. They believed in a creator, but did not believe what's in the bible. There were several others that signed the Declaration that were also Deists or Unitarians and only one Catholic that signed the Declaration.
Most of the Europeans that came here were trying to get away from the Catholic Church. . They had seen what the Catholics had done to people in Europe and wanted no part of it. Can you imagine what it was like to have your arms and legs pulled apart until they broke or pulled away from your body. That was one of the Catholics favorite torturing methods to make you say you believed just like they did. Or they would drive spikes from under your chin into the roof of your mouth to shut you up if they didn't like what you said like the earth revolving around the sun. Or, they would just burn you at the stake like they did Giordano Bruno, a former catholic priest. Did you know that 25 people were either hanged or starved to death in jail in 1692 in Salem Massachusetts because of Leviticus, chapter 20, verse 27? I really don't like people posting shit about what I believe that I've never even met and had a discussion with and I really don't give a shit about your Catholic religion. You can practice any kind of religion as long as it doesn't harm other people, but, your catholic religion has hurt a lot of people and continues to hurt young kids today. How anyone remains in a religion where the teachers of the religion sexually molest little kids is beyond my comprehension.
Very true: other than be covered by the blood and grace and mercy of Christ.
Great source. Thanks!
So not punishing wrongs would make him unjust? Why would celestial law dictate that atonement would only address the wrongs of those that believe the myth? Seems like an awfully arbitary/unjust way to divide people into groups to receive punishment.
It’s not celestial law, but immutable character that makes the dictate. If it seems arbitrary, it’s because you haven’t seen enough of the big picture yet (none of us have).
That same rationale cuts into your thesis:
“How can God be just if wrongs are never punished?”
You are appealing to a human sense of justice.
No, I’m appealing to a Catholic understanding of God’s character. Interpretation of said character is the basis for our understanding of justice.
Not sure where you are attempting to go with this.
God made me.
God gave me free will.
God didn't force a sexual orientation on me.
I have plenty of character flaws and sins that God did not force upon me.
I think you know exactly where I am going with this.
Did you choose to be straight? Ever felt the slightest temptation towards a homosexual relationship?
I've seen this crop up recently and I was always under the impression that the colonists left England to get away from the Church of England, not the Catholic Church which had been defeated in England in the 1500s.
The human beings that led the Catholic Church committed terrible atrocities and (gasp!) was in need of reform.
The Salem Puritan trials were Catholic? News to me.Did you know that 25 people were either hanged or starved to death in jail in 1692 in Salem Massachusetts because of Leviticus, chapter 20, verse 27?
I will absolutely take issue with the "continues to hurt young kids today." There is no base to this other than your feelings. There have been so many, much needed safeguards put in place that you don't even care to see. I guess I was just unwanted by the teachers and clergy to survive 12 years in Catholic schools and many retreats and youth group events. Or, many, just maybe, the entire or even most population of faith are not the monsters you claim we are. I am a member of the Catholic Church because of Jesus, not the members of the body.You can practice any kind of religion as long as it doesn't harm other people, but, your catholic religion has hurt a lot of people and continues to hurt young kids today. How anyone remains in a religion where the teachers of the religion sexually molest little kids is beyond my comprehension.
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