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Thread: Comey's Firing

  1. #241
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...113-story.html
    Pelosi and other Democratic leaders excoriated Comey for his stubbornness, but stopped short of calling for his head -- pressing the FBI director to take up an investigation into what "leverage" Russia might have over Trump, even as they questioned Comey's integrity.
    Yeah, that is a question of judgment - what standard he should apply in disclosing details of an investigation. Not his honesty.

  2. #242
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Honesty or judgment? Who outside the alt-right has questioned his honesty and over what?
    One is intimately involved with the other.

  3. #243
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by JuBru View Post
    One is intimately involved with the other.
    Really? Plenty of cases where an honest person has made poor judgments. And vice versa.

    "All roads lead to Putin" -- Thomas Jefferson



  4. #244
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by JuBru View Post
    One is intimately involved with the other.
    No, it is not. The guy is honest to a fault and no one doubts that. Some may question whether he made the right decisions or whether he was the right person to make the decisions that he did.

  5. #245
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    No, it is not. The guy is honest to a fault and no one doubts that. Some may question whether he made the right decisions or whether he was the right person to make the decisions that he did.
    He has lied more than once under oath when saying that intent is needed to prosecute.

    He also didn't reopen the email mess on Hillary. He reopened it because of the Wiener scandal. He does not get to hide behind right or wrong on that one. He was bound by law to investigate.

  6. #246
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    He has lied more than once under oath when saying that intent is needed to prosecute.

    He also didn't reopen the email mess on Hillary. He reopened it because of the Wiener scandal. He does not get to hide behind right or wrong on that one. He was bound by law to investigate.
    Intent is required under the law. The Supreme Court has said so. You can't imprison a person for a crime that had no mens rea requirement. That is not a lie, and at the absolute worst it is an issue of interpretation of the law.

  7. #247
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Intent is required under the law. The Supreme Court has said so. You can't imprison a person for a crime that had no mens rea requirement. That is not a lie, and at the absolute worst it is an issue of interpretation of the law.
    Really? then why is that sailor serving out his prison sentence?

    And, why is it you can be fined/sent to jail for having an eagle part in your possession? Intent and/or how you acquired the feather, or whatever, is irrelevant. The law says one cannot have on his/her person any part of an eagle (unless you're a member of a federally recognized Native American tribe)....period. There is no intent component to that law.

    There are other laws with no intent component....such as negligence. If I shoot a gun into the air and the bullet strikes and kills someone a mile away, I am guilty. My defense of "well, I had no intention of that bullet striking that person, or any person" won't work.

    But! I am no lawyer, and didn't play one on TV, so I will consult with a criminal attorney I know. She has worked in criminal defense and for the state AG's office.

  8. #248
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Yeah, that is a question of judgment - what standard he should apply in disclosing details of an investigation. Not his honesty.
    Integrity has nothing to do with judgement.
    the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.

    You can have poor judgement and still be a man of integrity. We agree on that. They are doing more than asking whether he made a mistake. They are asking if he did it intentionally thereby questioning his integrity.

  9. #249
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Intent is required under the law. The Supreme Court has said so. You can't imprison a person for a crime that had no mens rea requirement. That is not a lie, and at the absolute worst it is an issue of interpretation of the law.
    Prosecute not convict. Are you saying the FBI has never prosecuted unless they could prove intent?

  10. #250
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Prosecute not convict. Are you saying the FBI has never prosecuted unless they could prove intent?
    It is wrongful prosecution if you bring a case where you don't believe the case is supported by facts and the law.

    Sure states/fed government have lost cases where they failed to prove it. But they should have only brought those cases if they believed the evidence supported a conviction.

  11. #251
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    Really? then why is that sailor serving out his prison sentence?

    And, why is it you can be fined/sent to jail for having an eagle part in your possession? Intent and/or how you acquired the feather, or whatever, is irrelevant. The law says one cannot have on his/her person any part of an eagle (unless you're a member of a federally recognized Native American tribe)....period. There is no intent component to that law.

    There are other laws with no intent component....such as negligence. If I shoot a gun into the air and the bullet strikes and kills someone a mile away, I am guilty. My defense of "well, I had no intention of that bullet striking that person, or any person" won't work.

    But! I am no lawyer, and didn't play one on TV, so I will consult with a criminal attorney I know. She has worked in criminal defense and for the state AG's office.
    The sailor intentionally covered it up. It is not the crime, but the cover up that gets people in these kind of cases.

    Yeah, you are not a lawyer. Criminal law varies from state to state, but there is still an intent requirement to negligent/involuntary homicide, it is just not a "specific intent" crime (where one intends the consequence of their action).

  12. #252
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    It is wrongful prosecution if you bring a case where you don't believe the case is supported by facts and the law.
    So, back to the beginning...

    What gives him the authority to decided intent or not? That's what the other FBI agents are upset with him about. They made a case and he alone decided there was no intent.

    It's also very obvious that she did not care to carry out the oath she had sworn to uphold, but claimed ignorance of the law. She knew, Bill knew, the AG knew, and Comey knew.

  13. #253
    Dawg Adamant Argument Czar Guisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond reputeGuisslapp has a reputation beyond repute Guisslapp's Avatar
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    So, back to the beginning...

    What gives him the authority to decided intent or not? That's what the other FBI agents are upset with him about. They made a case and he alone decided there was no intent.

    It's also very obvious that she did not care to carry out the oath she had sworn to uphold, but claimed ignorance of the law. She knew, Bill knew, the AG knew, and Comey knew.
    She knew "what"?

    Which specific crime do you think she committed - the intent requirement depends on what you would have charged her with.

    It is reportedly unusual for the FBI to end an investigation without at least informing the DOJ ahead of time but it has been reported (though Comey has yet to say on an official record), that he decided to do this because there werenfake reports that would compromise the DOJ if he didn't decide on his own, and they didn't want to have to rebut the fake reports because it would compromise source and methods. I am sure he will be asked about it.

  14. #254
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    The sailor intentionally covered it up. It is not the crime, but the cover up that gets people in these kind of cases.

    Yeah, you are not a lawyer. Criminal law varies from state to state, but there is still an intent requirement to negligent/involuntary homicide, it is just not a "specific intent" crime (where one intends the consequence of their action).
    Kind of like deleting a bunch of emails or having a private server when it is strictly prohibited or lying about there not being any classified information in the emails when they were clearly marked.

  15. #255
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    Re: Comey's Firing

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Yeah, you are not a lawyer. Criminal law varies from state to state, but there is still an intent requirement to negligent/involuntary homicide, it is just not a "specific intent" crime (where one intends the consequence of their action).
    That's the nicest thing you've ever said. Thanks!

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