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Thread: Climate Change

  1. #211
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    Re: Climate Change

    Lol, “worst case scenarios” usually aren’t very credible. The whole exercise of determining a worst case screnario involves making all of the most extreme assumptions for unknowns that result in the worst possible scenario.

    To me, conservatives ultimately forfeited the debate on climate change by taking the position of science deniers. The better position has always been that of risk-benefit of “how much more are you willing to pay for your energy today to have a x% chance of avoiding climate change, the impacts which are most likely to be y, but with the 0.001% chance it could be z?”

  2. #212
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    Re: Climate Change

    There is no denying you are the #1 most wrong poster on this forum.

    The science does NOT support man-made climate change, period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not even close.

  3. #213
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Lol, “worst case scenarios” usually aren’t very credible. The whole exercise of determining a worst case screnario involves making all of the most extreme assumptions for unknowns that result in the worst possible scenario.

    To me, conservatives ultimately forfeited the debate on climate change by taking the position of science deniers. The better position has always been that of risk-benefit of “how much more are you willing to pay for your energy today to have a x% chance of avoiding climate change, the impacts which are most likely to be y, but with the 0.001% chance it could be z?”
    We/conservatives are the real scientist that don't change the facts to suit some political goal and slush fund $$ grants and overall liberal ADM Fed and state government grab. Liberals educators and scientist hate or change facts.......proven time and time again in this particular debate.

  4. #214
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS View Post
    We/conservatives are the real scientist that don't change the facts to suit some political goal and slush fund $$ grants and overall liberal ADM Fed and state government grab. Liberals educators and scientist hate or change facts.......proven time and time again in this particular debate.
    SNOW IN ALL 50 STATES!

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    Gulf of Mexico steaming...

  5. #215
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Lol, “worst case scenarios” usually aren’t very credible. The whole exercise of determining a worst case screnario involves making all of the most extreme assumptions for unknowns that result in the worst possible scenario.

    To me, conservatives ultimately forfeited the debate on climate change by taking the position of science deniers. The better position has always been that of risk-benefit of “how much more are you willing to pay for your energy today to have a x% chance of avoiding climate change, the impacts which are most likely to be y, but with the 0.001% chance it could be z?”
    so you never did answer. what new evidence changed your mind on man-made climate change?

  6. #216
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by arkansasbob View Post
    so you never did answer. what new evidence changed your mind on man-made climate change?
    Is that what you got from me suggesting how conservatives should frame the debate?

  7. #217
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Is that what you got from me suggesting how conservatives should frame the debate?
    so you're still in the "science deniers" camp? just asking for clarification.

    as for the framing of the debate. maybe you're right, but it's hard not to express some anger over bad science being sold as settled science.

  8. #218
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by arkansasbob View Post
    so you're still in the "science deniers" camp? just asking for clarification.

    as for the framing of the debate. maybe you're right, but it's hard not to express some anger over bad science being sold as settled science.
    I think denying is also bad science. A healthy amount of skepticism over generalizations and alleged carte sues while acknowledging some risk is where I am. For example, if cutting CO2 didn’t come with any costs, it seems like a no brainer. But it does come with some heavy costs, so you don’t want to go down that road unless (1) you are pretty certain it will make a difference, and (2) you are relatively certain that the harm of not taking the change will be significant.

    To me the Paris Accord was the right kInd of approach. The real problem with issue #1 above is that you have to provide a pathway to other countries, particularly developing countries, to participate and reduce their future CO2 contributions for any sacrifice to have any shot of making a difference. For what it is worth, I think we have reached a point of development that we can begin to cut CO2 in the US with already low and still decreasing costs. That is credit in large part to natural gas which will ultimately lose greater market share to renewables over time.

    What would your criticism of the views and explanations expressed in this video be:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr2J_1J9w3A

    And as a side note - Just as I think republicans gave up their seat at the debate over global warming by being science deniers I think the US is now giving up its role and most of its influence in establishing international policy on the matter by pulling out of the Paris Accords.

  9. #219
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    Re: Climate Change

    Carte sues was my iPhone autocorrecting a misspelling of “certainty”.

  10. #220
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    Re: Climate Change

    For the gazillionith time...the science does NOT support man-made global warming. If one thinks there is irrefutable scientific evidence that proves man-made GW, then they are the "science deniers." The science points in the exact opposite direction: there is ZERO scientific proof that humans have, or even can, alter the Earth's climate.

    Can humans cause harm to a micro-environment? YES! and we have. Such as polluting rivers and causing SMOG over cities like L.A. (which is not home to the Tech Dawgs, BTW).

    The Paris Accords are nothing but another attempt by the commie one-worlders to transfer wealth from countries like the US to others. No thanks.

  11. #221
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    For the gazillionith time...the science does NOT support man-made global warming. If one thinks there is irrefutable scientific evidence that proves man-made GW, then they are the "science deniers." The science points in the exact opposite direction: there is ZERO scientific proof that humans have, or even can, alter the Earth's climate.

    Can humans cause harm to a micro-environment? YES! and we have. Such as polluting rivers and causing SMOG over cities like L.A. (which is not home to the Tech Dawgs, BTW).

    The Paris Accords are nothing but another attempt by the commie one-worlders to transfer wealth from countries like the US to others. No thanks.
    Precisely what I mean by excusing yourself from the debate.

  12. #222
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    Re: Climate Change

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I think denying is also bad science. A healthy amount of skepticism over generalizations and alleged carte sues while acknowledging some risk is where I am. For example, if cutting CO2 didn’t come with any costs, it seems like a no brainer. But it does come with some heavy costs, so you don’t want to go down that road unless (1) you are pretty certain it will make a difference, and (2) you are relatively certain that the harm of not taking the change will be significant.

    To me the Paris Accord was the right kInd of approach. The real problem with issue #1 above is that you have to provide a pathway to other countries, particularly developing countries, to participate and reduce their future CO2 contributions for any sacrifice to have any shot of making a difference. For what it is worth, I think we have reached a point of development that we can begin to cut CO2 in the US with already low and still decreasing costs. That is credit in large part to natural gas which will ultimately lose greater market share to renewables over time.

    What would your criticism of the views and explanations expressed in this video be:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sr2J_1J9w3A

    And as a side note - Just as I think republicans gave up their seat at the debate over global warming by being science deniers I think the US is now giving up its role and most of its influence in establishing international policy on the matter by pulling out of the Paris Accords.
    expressing a "healthy amount of skepticism over generalizations and alleged certainty" puts you firmly in the "science denier" camp as far as most people are concerned.

    where the video above misses the mark (mainly) is its claim that we know that we need to act now. as you rightly observe, you have to ask whether the benefits outweigh the cost. we're trying to stop the sea level rise and "climate instability". but it's fairly certain that we won't be able to do much about the sea level rise. it's also fairly uncertain whether we can have any impact whatsoever on "climate stability". and then there's all this:

    there is little evidence that severe weather such as droughts, hurricanes, tornadoes, or "bomb cyclones" have increased or will increase with an increase in co2.
    there is ample evidence that the warming to date is exaggerated.
    higher co2 should increase crop yields.
    if higher co2 results in warming, it should moderate lows more than it increases highs -- this should decrease the number of deaths due to cold exposure and decrease crop loss due to freezing.
    if higher co2 results in warming, it should allow agriculture at higher latitudes in the northern hemisphere, increasing the world's food availability.
    sea level rise is very gradual -- people have time to move inland.
    relocating entire villages further inland would be much less expensive that imposing regulations to reduce co2 emissions.
    the biggest cost associated with sea level rise is the loss of wealthy people's ocean-front property.

    so what is the benefit of the paris accord? making ourselves feel better about "saving the planet"? is it worth the cost?

  13. #223
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    Re: Climate Change

    Earth is not getting colder, it’s getting warmer. All that cold arctic air that moved from the North Pole to Eastern US is because the jet stream that normally keeps that cold air confined above the arctic circle has been disrupted by climate change. Check out the recent temperatures in Fairbanks AK for confirmation.

  14. #224
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    Re: Climate Change

    I see they are building beach resorts in Antarctica! They'll have tropical getaways soon. I think CUSA is trying to get a bowl tie-in there too. The Penguin Bowl, sponsored by a resort company.

    Book here: http://all-inclusiveresort.com/index.cfm

  15. #225
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    Re: Climate Change

    Liberal global warming freaks should really go into comedy.

    STUDY: 'Climate Change' Linked to Depression, Anxiety...

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