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Thread: What is Systemic Racism?

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    What is Systemic Racism?

    A lot has been posted about the ambiguity of the protests by various NFL players. There are many different answers to the question "what are they protesting", but most can be categorized as racial inequality. I began to read more about this topic after the highly publicized deaths of black men at the hands of police. I was less interested in assigning blame for those particular events (they are certainly not monolithic) than I was at understanding the reaction to these events. I'm not just talking about the reaction of the typical leftists crap stirrers on cable news...as they are as inflammatory and biased as the typical right-wing crap stirrers. I had dear friends that were deeply hurt and concerned. I had friends who had adopted children of different races that incredibly disheartened and even scared about the prospects of their black child having to grow-up where he mighty be penalized for the color of his skin.

    Anyway, that all led me to look into the topic here. I think you get a better view of someone's argument when you let them make it. . .as opposed to letting someone who disagrees summarize it. Our culture prefers a "safe summary" to actually engaging in the argument presented by the opposing side.

    All that said, the link shared below seems clearly biased, but it also seems to be true to the academic sociological understanding of the issue. I don't agree with all the conclusions or premises, but if you want to understand why there is such an uproar in the black community, I think this may be a helpful thing to read. Again, not to convince you that their argument is right, but so that you will understand what their argument is.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    A lot has been posted about the ambiguity of the protests by various NFL players. There are many different answers to the question "what are they protesting", but most can be categorized as racial inequality. I began to read more about this topic after the highly publicized deaths of black men at the hands of police. I was less interested in assigning blame for those particular events (they are certainly not monolithic) than I was at understanding the reaction to these events. I'm not just talking about the reaction of the typical leftists crap stirrers on cable news...as they are as inflammatory and biased as the typical right-wing crap stirrers. I had dear friends that were deeply hurt and concerned. I had friends who had adopted children of different races that incredibly disheartened and even scared about the prospects of their black child having to grow-up where he mighty be penalized for the color of his skin.

    Anyway, that all led me to look into the topic here. I think you get a better view of someone's argument when you let them make it. . .as opposed to letting someone who disagrees summarize it. Our culture prefers a "safe summary" to actually engaging in the argument presented by the opposing side.

    All that said, the link shared below seems clearly biased, but it also seems to be true to the academic sociological understanding of the issue. I don't agree with all the conclusions or premises, but if you want to understand why there is such an uproar in the black community, I think this may be a helpful thing to read. Again, not to convince you that their argument is right, but so that you will understand what their argument is.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/systemic-racism-3026565
    Man, that is a depressing summation. I do believe that is what the most extreme members of BLM and similar groups believe.

    I can share your friends concerns about adopted children of different races. It's a discussion my wife and I have had as we have tried to adopt. I am concerned that my children would be faced with racism and how I would handle that and I'm also concerned that they might actually believe something like the article you posted. If I believed that I don't think I could stay in this country and I don't know why any person of color would either.

    "a social system that had racist economic inequality built into its foundation"
    "laws and political and economic policies that work to reproduce a social system that is racist and has racist outcomes"
    "a serious and well-documented problem of routine discrimination in all areas of life, and the frequent dehumanization and marginalization of POC"
    "shorter life spans, limited income and wealth potential, impacted family structure as a result of mass incarceration of Blacks and Latinos, limited access to educational resources and political participation, state-sanctioned killing by police, and the psychological, emotional, and community tolls of living with less, and being seen as “less than."
    "
    White elites, often unconsciously, work to perpetuate systemic racism via politics, law, educational institutions, the economy, and via racist representations and underrepresentation of people of color in mass media. "
    "
    Feagin's theory, and all of the research he and many other social scientists have conducted over 100 years, illustrates that racism is in fact built into the foundation of U.S. society and that it has over time come to infuse all aspects of it. It is present in our laws, our politics, our economy; in our social institutions; and in how we think and act, whether consciously or subconsciously. It's all around us and inside of us, and for this reason, resistance to racism must also be everywhere if we are to combat it."


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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    I wouldn't say it is the "most extreme" members of the BLM movement believe. These are pretty traditional beliefs for people that are study in this area. The underpinnings of these beliefs go at least back into the 1980s when critical race theory first started to become a popular framework in the social sciences field.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    Man, that is a depressing summation. I do believe that is what the most extreme members of BLM and similar groups believe.

    I can share your friends concerns about adopted children of different races. It's a discussion my wife and I have had as we have tried to adopt. I am concerned that my children would be faced with racism and how I would handle that and I'm also concerned that they might actually believe something like the article you posted. If I believed that I don't think I could stay in this country and I don't know why any person of color would either.

    "a social system that had racist economic inequality built into its foundation"
    "laws and political and economic policies that work to reproduce a social system that is racist and has racist outcomes"
    "a serious and well-documented problem of routine discrimination in all areas of life, and the frequent dehumanization and marginalization of POC"
    "shorter life spans, limited income and wealth potential, impacted family structure as a result of mass incarceration of Blacks and Latinos, limited access to educational resources and political participation, state-sanctioned killing by police, and the psychological, emotional, and community tolls of living with less, and being seen as “less than."
    "
    White elites, often unconsciously, work to perpetuate systemic racism via politics, law, educational institutions, the economy, and via racist representations and underrepresentation of people of color in mass media. "
    "
    Feagin's theory, and all of the research he and many other social scientists have conducted over 100 years, illustrates that racism is in fact built into the foundation of U.S. society and that it has over time come to infuse all aspects of it. It is present in our laws, our politics, our economy; in our social institutions; and in how we think and act, whether consciously or subconsciously. It's all around us and inside of us, and for this reason, resistance to racism must also be everywhere if we are to combat it."


    Why would anyone choose to live in a place like this?
    I think some of those things sound horrible, but if you break down the claim, it's easier to understand. For instance, at the time of our country's foundation, slave labor was integral to our economy and black people were officially inferior in the eyes of the law...racist economic inequality. The claims hit our ears in an incredibly irritating way, but I think, in context, you can see where the claims come from.
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    I think some of those things sound horrible, but if you break down the claim, it's easier to understand. For instance, at the time of our country's foundation, slave labor was integral to our economy and black people were officially inferior in the eyes of the law...racist economic inequality. The claims hit our ears in an incredibly irritating way, but I think, in context, you can see where the claims come from.
    I don't think anyone would dispute that historically this is a fact. Certainly at the time of our foundation and I can understand where each claim comes from. To say that it is systemic now is a whole other matter. And I don't believe it is one based in fact. The author is talking about today.

    I agree a lot of those things sound horrible. They are horrible. I can agree that we still have progress to make, but this seems to ignore all the progress we have made already.
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    i think the biggest problem of the "black lives matter" movement is that it is intentionally divisive -- even the name is inherently divisive. if i call my movement black lives matter and you disagree with anything i say, then that implies that you don't think black lives matter. this of course automatically puts them at odds with police and people that support them. if you want to improve the way police interact with the black community, you don't call yourself something that automatically makes you an enemy of the police.

    so i have concluded that the people leading that movement are not interested in change -- the only likely outcome of their approach is increased division and mistrust along racial lines, which helps to mobilize their base against their political enemies.

    that said, there are some things that seriously need to change about our laws, our justice system, our entitlement system, and the way our police handle potentially dangerous situations. but as long as we are accusing people of being racist we won't get anywhere. instead, let's talk about the specific laws, programs, and policies that lead to bad outcomes and figure out a better way to do things.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Agree completely bob. Their efforts have gotten the attention they wanted. If you truly want change, the protests should stop and we should be hearing about meeting requests to solve problems.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    Agree completely bob. Their efforts have gotten the attention they wanted. If you truly want change, the protests should stop and we should be hearing about meeting requests to solve problems.
    They are saying it, you just aren't listening.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    They are saying it, you just aren't listening.
    thanks for ASSuming I'm a racist. Pride myself and my family on being the total opposite.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    They are saying it, you just aren't listening.
    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    thanks for ASSuming I'm a racist. Pride myself and my family on being the total opposite.
    What?
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    thanks for ASSuming I'm a racist. Pride myself and my family on being the total opposite.
    What do you do to fight systemic racism?

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    What do you do to fight systemic racism?
    As far as protesting, marching, or the like, nothing. As far as the way I live, conduct myself, and teach my kids, a lot. It has to start with the individual. Change people 1 by 1. Did you know the Apostle Andrew was responsible for bringing Peter to Christ? He almost always brought people 1 at a time. Sorry if that isn't what you are looking for, but that's how I live. Treat others as you want to be treated. See comments made this week by Dabo.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    As far as protesting, marching, or the like, nothing. As far as the way I live, conduct myself, and teach my kids, a lot. It has to start with the individual. Change people 1 by 1. Did you know the Apostle Andrew was responsible for bringing Peter to Christ? He almost always brought people 1 at a time. Sorry if that isn't what you are looking for, but that's how I live. Treat others as you want to be treated. See comments made this week by Dabo.
    What do you teach your kids or others about systemic racism?

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    As far as protesting, marching, or the like, nothing. As far as the way I live, conduct myself, and teach my kids, a lot. It has to start with the individual. Change people 1 by 1. Did you know the Apostle Andrew was responsible for bringing Peter to Christ? He almost always brought people 1 at a time. Sorry if that isn't what you are looking for, but that's how I live. Treat others as you want to be treated. See comments made this week by Dabo.
    I'd be interested to get your take on Timothy Keller's Generous Justice.

    I'm only part of the way through it, but his main point is that Christians are required to work toward justice for the oppressed. He hasn't worked it all out yet, but I'll be interested to see what he says.
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    What do you teach your kids or others about systemic racism?
    How far does this rabbit hole go? What proof do you need? When my kids see a minority being mistreated, I teach them it isn't right. When my kids read history books that still, thank God, tell about slavery, I tell them how we know that it isn't right to treat ANYONE as subhuman. When my kids play at school or in the neighborhood, I teach them that every kid deserves to be a part of your game. Not off topic, but my son is often told he can't play by other kids because he is smaller and not as good at sports as others. I am thankful for teachers who advocate for him and tell others to let him play so he can get better and then they will want him on their team. I teach my kids that they shouldn't leave others out or ignore the needs of others and they understand because they know how that feels.

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