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Thread: What is Systemic Racism?

  1. #16
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    I'd be interested to get your take on Timothy Keller's Generous Justice.

    I'm only part of the way through it, but his main point is that Christians are required to work toward justice for the oppressed. He hasn't worked it all out yet, but I'll be interested to see what he says.
    I will have to read it.

  2. #17
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    What do you do to fight systemic racism?
    I don't do anything or honestly know what to do? What do you do or suggest?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    What do you teach your kids or others about systemic racism?
    I only have one child and I talk to him about racism and the problems it creates. I do not teach him about systemic racism because I think it is nebulous and counter productive.

    My son got 3 problems wrong on a math test yesterday. He actually answered all three questions correctly, but the teacher thought his 6 looked like a b in two places (I disagree) and his 5 was just messy I guess. He's in the 3rd grade. It was a subtraction test. There is no mistaking his numbers for anything else within reason. As a parent, your natural reaction is to ask why is the teacher picking on my son. It's the same reaction you get when your kid doesn't start on the soccer team when he is clearly better than little Johnny. Is the coach flirting with Johnny's mom and showing preferential treatment? Is it because I yelled at him the other day in the parking lot? Or is it maybe because my kid sucks on defense?

    I am trying to teach my son to recognize the factors that he can control and make changes where he can. He already has a tendency to pass blame as his first instinct. I don't think that is a good thing for him. Something like systemic racism would represent an "easy out" and might prevent someone from looking at their own responsibility for an action. I don't think that is healthy at a young age.

    He's probably a little young to learn about systemic racism yet anyway. That's a heavy burden to put on a kid. For now I'm content to just teach him about the evils of racism and how to recognize it and respond to it.

    I will pose the question to our two resident experts on systemic racism. What laws do you think represent systemic racism and how would you change them? What other actions do you think are some of the most important steps to removing the burden of systemic racism?
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  3. #18
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    I don't do anything or honestly know what to do? What do you do or suggest?



    I only have one child and I talk to him about racism and the problems it creates. I do not teach him about systemic racism because I think it is nebulous and counter productive.

    My son got 3 problems wrong on a math test yesterday. He actually answered all three questions correctly, but the teacher thought his 6 looked like a b in two places (I disagree) and his 5 was just messy I guess. He's in the 3rd grade. It was a subtraction test. There is no mistaking his numbers for anything else within reason. As a parent, your natural reaction is to ask why is the teacher picking on my son. It's the same reaction you get when your kid doesn't start on the soccer team when he is clearly better than little Johnny. Is the coach flirting with Johnny's mom and showing preferential treatment? Is it because I yelled at him the other day in the parking lot? Or is it maybe because my kid sucks on defense?

    I am trying to teach my son to recognize the factors that he can control and make changes where he can. He already has a tendency to pass blame as his first instinct. I don't think that is a good thing for him. Something like systemic racism would represent an "easy out" and might prevent someone from looking at their own responsibility for an action. I don't think that is healthy at a young age.

    He's probably a little young to learn about systemic racism yet anyway. That's a heavy burden to put on a kid. For now I'm content to just teach him about the evils of racism and how to recognize it and respond to it.

    I will pose the question to our two resident experts on systemic racism. What laws do you think represent systemic racism and how would you change them? What other actions do you think are some of the most important steps to removing the burden of systemic racism?
    Exactly what I was trying to say, but much better.

  4. #19
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    The only "systemic" racism is so-called reverse racism.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    I'd be interested to get your take on Timothy Keller's Generous Justice.

    I'm only part of the way through it, but his main point is that Christians are required to work toward justice for the oppressed. He hasn't worked it all out yet, but I'll be interested to see what he says.
    Sounds like a good book from the descriptions. I agree that Christians are called to help the poor and the oppressed. That was pretty clear in the Beatitudes. I also think we should all stand up and fight for justice.
    Last edited by detltu; 09-29-2017 at 03:53 PM. Reason: removed incorrect quote.
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by detltu View Post
    Sounds like a good book from the descriptions. I agree that Christians are called to help the poor and the oppressed. That was pretty clear in the Beatitudes. I also think we should all stand up and fight for justice.
    I just read this quote over my lunch break and I thought it was great...not exactly pertinent here, but this seems like the best place to share it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Keller
    "In Western society these sets of concerns have often been split off from one another. In fact, each of America's two main political parties has built its platform on one of these sets of ethical prescriptions to the near exclusion of the other. Conservatism stresses the importance of personal morality, especially the importance of traditional sexual mores and hard work, and feels that liberal charges of racism and social justice are overblown. On the other hand, liberalism stresses social justice, and considers conservative emphases on moral virtue to be prudish and psychologically harmful. Each side, of course, thinks the other side is smug and self-righteous."
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  7. #22
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    I just read this quote over my lunch break and I thought it was great...not exactly pertinent here, but this seems like the best place to share it:

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I think that is a very good summation. While there are gray areas, those are clearly points of emphasis.
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  8. #23
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    How far does this rabbit hole go? What proof do you need? When my kids see a minority being mistreated, I teach them it isn't right. When my kids read history books that still, thank God, tell about slavery, I tell them how we know that it isn't right to treat ANYONE as subhuman. When my kids play at school or in the neighborhood, I teach them that every kid deserves to be a part of your game. Not off topic, but my son is often told he can't play by other kids because he is smaller and not as good at sports as others. I am thankful for teachers who advocate for him and tell others to let him play so he can get better and then they will want him on their team. I teach my kids that they shouldn't leave others out or ignore the needs of others and they understand because they know how that feels.
    Just curious what you meant. Addressing overt racism is a good start, but it doesn't really address systemic racism.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    The only "systemic" racism is so-called reverse racism.
    Yeah, you basically are systemic racism personified.

  10. #25
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Just curious what you meant. Addressing overt racism is a good start, but it doesn't really address systemic racism.
    Understand. Sorry I assumed malice. I guess I was thinking systemic and overt were interchangeable. Not well versed in the terms. Really, systemic would require generations to work out, right?

  11. #26
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by techman05 View Post
    Understand. Sorry I assumed malice. I guess I was thinking systemic and overt were interchangeable. Not well versed in the terms. Really, systemic would require generations to work out, right?
    It is hard to imagine systemic racism to be ameliorated in a single generation, but I am not an expert.

    I think there is general awareness of the issue, but I don't think it is widely understood or fully appreciated. My suggestion is to temporarily put your beliefs and worldview on the shelf and imagine how your life would be different from cradle to grave if you were black. How would your experiences be different? How might your behavior be different? I suspect you know some people that are racist. How would your relationship with them change? How would your experience in grade school and high school be different? What would your peer group have been? Would you have gone to the same college? Pursued the same degree? Had the same job opportunities? Married the same woman? How would your kids experiences be different? Would all of your experiences with law enforcement been the same? Would you react the same way to Ferguson, charlottesville? Kaepernick? Would you live in the same neighborhood? Have the same friends? Have the same hobbies? Have the same political views? Go to the same church?

    No need to answer, but these are things I think everyone has to think about before you can really be empathetic about racial inequality. And not just answer the questions but truly imagine yourself in those moments and how those experiences feel.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    Yeah, you basically are systemic racism personified.
    I have a lot of "isms." But then, we all do.

    But, that's not what "systemic" refers to. So, name the "system" that causes racism (as you define it). Go....

  13. #28
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by dawg80 View Post
    The only "systemic" racism is so-called reverse racism.
    Agreed. And I truly believe that there are more racist in the black community today vs. racist in the white community.

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    Warning Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by TYLERTECHSAS View Post
    Agreed. And I truly believe that there are more racist in the black community today vs. racist in the white community.
    I did not want to comment on this for fear of possibly being on the same page as you-know-who.

    It is possible for racism to exist without anyone attempting to be a racist. For instance, if a university or country club has a policy of allowing children or relatives of alumni or previous members to have preferential treatment to become admitted, there is a residual racism that exists there if they excluded certain races from becoming involved in the past.

    Many jobs are obtained by knowing someone knowing the person doing the hiring (or knowing the person doing the hiring). Given that neighborhoods were largely segregated in the past and certain races were unlikely to be given admission to a university, it is unlikely that a person of those races would have that kind of access to those opportunities.

    In a perfect meritocracy none of this would matter because it would not matter who you knew or to whom you were related. But there are enough cases where special treatment is given based on things that happened when there was limited or no access to opportunity.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by DawgyNWindow View Post
    I did not want to comment on this for fear of possibly being on the same page as you-know-who.

    It is possible for racism to exist without anyone attempting to be a racist. For instance, if a university or country club has a policy of allowing children or relatives of alumni or previous members to have preferential treatment to become admitted, there is a residual racism that exists there if they excluded certain races from becoming involved in the past.

    Many jobs are obtained by knowing someone knowing the person doing the hiring (or knowing the person doing the hiring). Given that neighborhoods were largely segregated in the past and certain races were unlikely to be given admission to a university, it is unlikely that a person of those races would have that kind of access to those opportunities.

    In a perfect meritocracy none of this would matter because it would not matter who you knew or to whom you were related. But there are enough cases where special treatment is given based on things that happened when there was limited or no access to opportunity.
    i'm not saying that there are not a lot of things that need to be corrected and improved, but the above post is just wrong.

    the fact that statistical differences can be drawn on racial lines does not imply racism. consider this imaginary situation:
    group A is 80% black.
    group B is 80% white.
    group B gets special privileges.
    in this situation (which is similar to the examples brought forth above) the privileges enjoyed by the whites in group B does nothing to help the whites in group A. also the blacks in group B have no problem receiving the privileges in question.

    disparities along racial lines do not equal racism, and privilege does not equal oppression.

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