What is Systemic Racism?

[Guisslapp]

Two reasons: One, they just aren't applying for positions

Two: There are two ways to become a pilot in the airlines today: Have enough money/loans to get a 150K flight training so that you can get your ATP, or join military as a pilot and have them train you, and when you obligations are up, join an airline.



Just like any STEM major or profession, it takes effort in order to make it in those areas. My son's HS class had a large percentage of students who were going to college for engineering.. same with my daughter for nursing... only a small percentage of those who started, finished in their major for probably a number of reasons.. It wasn't like they did not have an opportunity to get the degree, they did.. Either it was "too hard", decided that it wasn't what they expected, or they did not want to spend the time and effort needed to complete the program. This is no different than medical school, professional sports, special forces etc.

Your first reason was just a restatement of the question.

For your second reason, are you saying blacks put forth less effort or find it too hard? I would be surprised by that.

[FriscoDog]

So, logically, you must believe there is something inherent in the races that are under represented as you believe there is an equality of opportunity right?

Nope.. interesting that's where you went.. no where did I say.. or even insinuate race.. People have different abilities, or desires.. some people are smarter than others.. some are more athletic than others.. some people are lazy.. race has absolutely nothing to do with it..

[FriscoDog]

Your first reason was just a restatement of the question.

For your second reason, are you saying blacks put forth less effort or find it too hard? I would be surprised by that.

Again.. what is it about race.. you people who claim to be so woke immediately go to race and blacks.. you see racism in everything and everywhere.. No where did I mention race in my comments.. My nephew started out in Engineering at Tech.. changed majors ... thought it was too hard and that he wouldn't be able to make it.. My daughter had several HS friends who started out in nursing.. Anatomy kicked their butts and they all changed majors.. None of this has ANYTHING to do with race.. If everyone is the same.. then why doesn't every one who tries out for NAVY Seals make it? Like it or not.. we live in a free.. yet competitive society.. from First grade throughout college, everyone is "graded" based upon their performance. Some people excel, others do not.. it has nothing to do with race..

[Guisslapp]

Again.. what is it about race.. you people who claim to be so woke immediately go to race and blacks.. you see racism in everything and everywhere.. No where did I mention race in my comments.. My nephew started out in Engineering at Tech.. changed majors ... thought it was too hard and that he wouldn't be able to make it.. My daughter had several HS friends who started out in nursing.. Anatomy kicked their butts and they all changed majors.. None of this has ANYTHING to do with race.. If everyone is the same.. then why doesn't every one who tries out for NAVY Seals make it? Like it or not.. we live in a free.. yet competitive society.. from First grade throughout college, everyone is "graded" based upon their performance. Some people excel, others do not.. it has nothing to do with race..

So why are their fewer blacks applying for the position? That was my question and I lifted direct quotes out of your second reason (but now you say you weren’t saying it about race).

I suspect you know the answer but you aren’t saying it.

[Guisslapp]

Why are there only 18 black Fortune 500 CEOs? Btw, that appears to be about the same as the percentage of black commercial pilots.

[FriscoDog]

So why are their fewer blacks applying for the position? That was my question and I lifted direct quotes out of your second reason (but now you say you weren’t saying it about race).

I suspect you know the answer but you aren’t saying it.

Nice deflection.. but won't work.. you claimed that I was insinuating that blacks put in less effort or find it harder.. I never said that nor did i imply blacks specifically. no where did I mention any race at all.. You still seem to want equal outcomes for everyone. So why are fewer blacks applying for positions?? I don't know.. As I stated before, in order to become an airline pilot, you need to get your ATP and in order to have your ATP you must have at least 1500 hours flying. Pilot training is very expensive, there are two paths: Civilian or Military.. one you pay for, other is paid for you.

[Guisslapp]

Nice deflection.. but won't work.. you claimed that I was insinuating that blacks put in less effort or find it harder.. I never said that nor did i imply blacks specifically. no where did I mention any race at all.. You still seem to want equal outcomes for everyone. So why are fewer blacks applying for positions?? I don't know.. As I stated before, in order to become an airline pilot, you need to get your ATP and in order to have your ATP you must have at least 1500 hours flying. Pilot training is very expensive, there are two paths: Civilian or Military.. one you pay for, other is paid for you.

So it isn’t a matter of them not trying hard enough. I am glad to know you don’t think that.

But, fair enough. You are talking around the issue, or at least part of it. One of the main paths to becoming a pilot has historically been not as open for blacks, because it requires money and/or access.

Certainly not something someone would go out of their way to sacrifice to do without understanding early enough the doors that it opens. And most folks might not know all of that unless they are already in the industry, thus creating sort of a cycle.

[FriscoDog]

So it isn’t a matter of them not trying hard enough. I am glad to know you don’t think that.

But, fair enough. You are talking around the issue, or at least part of it. One of the main paths to becoming a pilot has historically been not as open for blacks, because it requires money and/or access.

Certainly not something someone would go out of their way to sacrifice to do without understanding early enough the doors that it opens. And most folks might not know all of that unless they are already in the industry, thus creating sort of a cycle.

I bolded this part because I believe this to be true of anyone white/black/asian/ etc. who wants to become a pilot.

[Guisslapp]

I bolded this part because I believe this to be true of anyone white/black/asian/ etc. who wants to become a pilot.

Yes, but it correlates to race as well. And my final paragraph is a key point that feeds into it.

Unless you are really rich or you know how the career path/reward works, a person is not likely to go get those flight hours.

Those factors could be corrected by the way. What does American do to develop a pipeline of black pilots? Obviously you can’t just wait for blacks to show up with the qualifications if diversity is the goal.

Both of those factors are part of systemic racism. While flight hours and understanding the career path were being discussed specific to being a commercial pilot, similar “obstacles” influence the demographics in other professions - not intelligence or drive.

[glm47]

Yes, but it correlates to race as well. And my final paragraph is a key point that feeds into it.

Unless you are really rich or you know how the career path/reward works, a person is not likely to go get those flight hours.

Those factors could be corrected by the way. What does American do to develop a pipeline of black pilots? Obviously you can’t just wait for blacks to show up with the qualifications if diversity is the goal.

Both of those factors are part of systemic racism. While flight hours and understanding the career path were being discussed specific to being a commercial pilot, similar “obstacles” influence the demographics in other professions - not intelligence or drive.

LOL!

Goober the social engineering enthusiast.

What sacrifices is Goober willing to make to overcome his white guilt?

[DawgyNWindow]

LOL!

Goober the social engineering enthusiast.

What sacrifices is Goober willing to make to overcome his white guilt?

Diversity is the goal with hiring pilots????? Not when I'm flying. I want someone up there that truly LOVES to fly and put their heart and soul into it.

Only a racist would see it otherwise, but I'd be OK with him flying with a much less enthused pilot.

[Guisslapp]

Diversity is the goal with hiring pilots????? Not when I'm flying. I want someone up there that truly LOVES to fly and put their heart and soul into it.

Only a racist would see it otherwise, but I'd be OK with him flying with a much less enthused pilot.

Only a racist would think you are less safe with diverse pilots.

[FriscoDog]

Only a racist would think you are less safe with diverse pilots.

He never said less safe with diverse pilots.. He said he wants a pilot who wants to be in the cockpit..

An analogy is a surgeon.. just like that commercial that "just ok is not good enough".. You are about to have a very tricky surgery.. and the guy comes in to your room and as he enters, you hear him tell someone down the hall that "Been reinstated, the malpractice lawsuit for wrongful death was dismissed" . Would you still want this guy to perform the operation?? I would want the best person to do the job, I do not care what his skin, or hair color is.. I want the most qualified and I would expect that you would too.

[Guisslapp]

He never said less safe with diverse pilots.. He said he wants a pilot who wants to be in the cockpit..

An analogy is a surgeon.. just like that commercial that "just ok is not good enough".. You are about to have a very tricky surgery.. and the guy comes in to your room and as he enters, you hear him tell someone down the hall that "Been reinstated, the malpractice lawsuit for wrongful death was dismissed" . Would you still want this guy to perform the operation?? I would want the best person to do the job, I do not care what his skin, or hair color is.. I want the most qualified and I would expect that you would too.

Well, it is also racist to think that improving diversity would lead to more pilots that don’t “want to be in the cockpit.”

I think his implication was clear.

[DawgyNWindow]

Well, it is also racist to think that improving diversity would lead to more pilots that don’t “want to be in the cockpit.”

I think his implication was clear.

Through your racist eyes, I guess I could see how you would come to that conclusion.

I try to not look at things in that simplistic way.