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Thread: What is Systemic Racism?

  1. #76
    Super Moderator Tech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond repute Tech77's Avatar
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    What's does knowing the "estimated sum" do for a student when they are later in life balancing their check book?
    https://www.google.com/amp/mylearnin...struction/amp/

    To catch SIGNIFICANT material mistakes.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tech77 View Post
    I think that is a terrific way to teach the concept. Knowing how to apply concepts and to think is the most valuable thing you can learn. Far more important than learning the most efficient way to multiply. We have calculators for that. In fact most kids always have a calculator on them today.

    You guys need to stop being dinosaurs and get with the future. Kids learn from their parents, so if the parents criticize the methods, it doesn’t reinforce the learning.

  4. #79
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    https://www.google.com/amp/mylearnin...struction/amp/

    To catch SIGNIFICANT material mistakes.
    You are one who can probably inject logic into math and didn't need memorization. However not all of us are/were able to learn w/out memorization. I think math basics should be taught the way it was always taught (with memorization), but using good teachers. Note I said "basics"
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

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    Super Moderator Tech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond reputeTech77 has a reputation beyond repute Tech77's Avatar
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    I think that is a terrific way to teach the concept. Knowing how to apply concepts and to think is the most valuable thing you can learn. Far more important than learning the most efficient way to multiply. We have calculators for that. In fact most kids always have a calculator on them today.

    You guys need to stop being dinosaurs and get with the future. Kids learn from their parents, so if the parents criticize the methods, it doesn’t reinforce the learning.
    You jumped on me and called me a dinosaur without even hearing what I thought of it. I like some of it. I think it could have been simplified into 3 easy steps.
    Last edited by Tech77; 10-12-2017 at 10:11 AM.
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    If you think common core is better for math it means one of two things. You didn't get along with math or you had a horrible math teacher. After having raised 5 kiddos some of which did not do well in math, we found bad math teachers to be the problem even for the ones who were good in math. Good math teachers are THE most important part of education and it is no longer a priority.
    I did very well in math. I had great teachers. Common core is currently teaching my kids to do what I intuitively did in my head.
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  7. #82
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    You are one who can probably inject logic into math and didn't need memorization. However not all of us are/were able to learn w/out memorization. I think math basics should be taught the way it was always taught (with memorization), but using good teachers. Note I said "basics"
    So, let’s say you memorize multiplication tables and you learn the short hand, efficient ways to tabulate... what good does that do you if you don’t know when to apply multiplication or you fail to see all of the opportunities to use it.

    The way we carry out productive work is rapidly changing. Critical thinking skills is what distinguishes humans from the computers and robots that will replace us or certain functions we perform in our jobs. The thinking and concepts are the “basics” - the tables of values for the mathematical operations corresponding to each operand.

  8. #83
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    I did very well in math. I had great teachers. Common core is currently teaching my kids to do what I intuitively did in my head.
    It's like getting rid of the white T. It wasn't broke and didn't need fixing. Now that there is a new system, some are gonna say they like it just because it is new.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    It's like getting rid of the white T. It wasn't broke and didn't need fixing. Now that there is a new system, some are gonna say they like it just because it is new.
    This has certainly proven to be an effective red herring! It was broken for my wife. Memorization didn't work for her and she essentially tuned out for the concepts. I think she would've been MUCH better off with CC math.

    There are always guys who don't wanna learn a new way who are gonna say they hate something just because it's new...
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  10. #85
    Super Moderator PawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond reputePawDawg has a reputation beyond repute PawDawg's Avatar
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guisslapp View Post
    So, let’s say you memorize multiplication tables and you learn the short hand, efficient ways to tabulate... what good does that do you if you don’t know when to apply multiplication or you fail to see all of the opportunities to use it.

    The way we carry out productive work is rapidly changing. Critical thinking skills is what distinguishes humans from the computers and robots that will replace us or certain functions we perform in our jobs. The thinking and concepts are the “basics” - the tables of values for the mathematical operations corresponding to each operand.
    You are thinking like an engineer. Many business people don't need advanced math skills. Focus on the basics.

    Getting back to the problems we face, you know that some students will turn out to be masters of math while some won't. Those who won't MUST have the basic skills to succeed. I believe memorization is the best way to learn the basics.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

  11. #86
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnylightnin View Post
    This has certainly proven to be an effective red herring! It was broken for my wife. Memorization didn't work for her and she essentially tuned out for the concepts. I think she would've been MUCH better off with CC math.
    Did not being able to do math in her head change her quality of life? Of course not. Why was it important for her to know more than the basics?

    We agree that lack of education is a huge part of the problem. The learning system in place was not the problem. Now we won't know the results of common core for another 5 to 10 years.
    "eye fo an eye and toof fo a toof" - Idiot in Missouri

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    Did not being able to do math in her head change her quality of life?
    It certainly limited her options...isn't that what the greater conversation is about? It's not one thing, but a confluence of things that make it far less likely that a certain group will be able to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps".
    Time is your friend. Impulse is your enemy. -John Bogle

  13. #88
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    No. Common core has changed the way of teaching and learning completely. It is a dumbing down designed to prepare "some" students for standardized testing. Google common core math and you'll see what I mean. Here is an example: http://d7.freedomworks.org.s3.amazon...emainphoto.jpg
    I check back in to find this has morphed into a discussion of common core.

    Common core for math is great in theory. As Johnnylightnin says it is trying to teach kids to do math the way many of us do math in our heads. I agree that that is a good concept. The execution is terrible.

    Instead of adding clarity to math processes it often adds confusion. Even to people who have fairly advanced math skills. The example above is a great idea. Using estimation to check your answer is a great idea and many of us do that intuitively. How do you explain to a kid that estimating 291 as 200 is appropriate or that your estimate of 500 shows the actual answer of 645 is reasonable.

    Unfortunately I think common core just shifts the problems elsewhere. I always struggled with memorization. Still do. Instead of having to memorize math operations and tables, now (if you struggle with the concepts being taught) you have to memorize the operations, tables and the method they want you to use. Teaching different ways of thinking about it is great. Turning around and forcing them to think about it a certain way to get the answer defeats the purpose.

    Don't get me started on how they take what should be simple concepts and make them needlessly complicated and just the general poor execution of the common core material.
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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Other than what I've been told, and what I have read from various sources, I don't know much about Common Core. By a general consensus it appears more people dislike CC, than like it. CC didn't begin in practice until after I had left teaching at the secondary level. I have many friends who are still active teachers and they don't like it. I do have first-hand experience in teaching math to those who have been exposed to CC throughout their secondary education. I'll have more data soon.

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    Re: What is Systemic Racism?

    Quote Originally Posted by PawDawg View Post
    You are thinking like an engineer. Many business people don't need advanced math skills. Focus on the basics.

    Getting back to the problems we face, you know that some students will turn out to be masters of math while some won't. Those who won't MUST have the basic skills to succeed. I believe memorization is the best way to learn the basics.
    Please don't associate this chump with intelligent people. He couldn't think himself out of a wet paper bag!

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