What is Systemic Racism?

[PawDawg]

LBJ...Democrats...1965...Blacks still voting Democrat

It's not about something that happened over 200 years ago.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Why was black fatherless homes twice that of whites before 1965 and LBJ?

I am not ignoring any factors - I acknowledge that being born rich, white, heterosexual, Christian are also advantages bestowing privilege. But why won’t you acknowledge that being born white also makes life a bit easier in America?

I don’t feel any guilt. Why should I? Is that why you won’t acknowlege white privilege - because you avoid guilt?

You've gone from being doomed because of skin color to being white making it a bit easier. The people you favor have made things worse, not skin color.

You think Jews and Mormons have struggled because of their faith? That's ridiculous.

Nobody is born "Christian".

Guislapp could lose his "Dawg Adamant Argument Czar" card soon.

[Tech77]

From what I am reading from many politiciciabs and commentators it is becoming a crime to be white and marry a white person. Who knew?

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Why do you think your coworker had “his pants around his ankles”? And in a society that wasn’t white dominant, would that matter?

Because their parents have failed them for the big numero uno. But there are many other reasons that are their fault not ours. I don't see that with Mexicans or Asians new to our country.

[TYLERTECHSAS]

Why was black fatherless homes twice that of whites before 1965 and LBJ?

And the number is worse now. Go figure with all of our tax dollars and advantages thrown at the system and toward them. Hum....I think we all know the answer.

[DawgyNWindow]

Hey, that is great. I know lots of white people with similar stories, especially when we reach back to grandparent generations.

Still, black families in 1920s or so didn’t have the same upward mobility as white families. Buying a home in a safe neighborhood, taking out a loan, getting your kids only has t nto an average school, not being discriminated against are all things that would have been much harder as a black American at the time of your parents and grandparents.

Well, the high school I went to was 50% black, and I don't remember any teachers asking anyone to leave the room so the whites could be taught anything different than anyone else in the room. Heck, half of the teachers were black as well. I also remember them being given the same books as I was given to learn from (it's been a while, but I believe the books were just stacked at the back of the room and you were asked to grab one...so I don't think the books were different either). This was in the 1970s.

Whatever existed in the 1920s does not exist now...and has not existed for quite a while. The point of my post was to show it normally takes a couple of generations to escape poverty and create "privilege"....and only one generation to lose it. Any liberal programs that create bitterness and convince anyone that upward mobility is easy - or was easy for anyone in the past (black or white) - is a great disservice to those trying to move up.

If we stop treating these people as victims needing our help and telling them they need to be bitter, these "communities" will cease to exist in a couple of generations. I have worked with and for many black people in my career, and many of them were quite brilliant (and much more talented than I was). I am happy that they did not wait for some white liberal with a messiah complex to save them from their plight. I saw no difference in ability between them and their white counterparts, and I saw no need to give them any artificial advantages to help them advance in their careers. 90% of them were "privileged" to have been brought up in a two-parent home and most were dirt poor as children.

Programs that focus on race are racist, and they hurt the people they are designed to help.

[Tech77]

Well, the high school I went to was 50% black, and I don't remember any teachers asking anyone to leave the room so the whites could be taught anything different than anyone else in the room. Heck, half of the teachers were black as well. I also remember them being given the same books as I was given to learn from (it's been a while, but I believe the books were just stacked at the back of the room and you were asked to grab one...so I don't think the books were different either). This was in the 1970s.

Whatever existed in the 1920s does not exist now...and has not existed for quite a while. The point of my post was to show it normally takes a couple of generations to escape poverty and create "privilege"....and only one generation to lose it. Any liberal programs that create bitterness and convince anyone that upward mobility is easy - or was easy for anyone in the past (black or white) - is a great disservice to those trying to move up.

If we stop treating these people as victims needing our help and telling them they need to be bitter, these "communities" will cease to exist in a couple of generations. I have worked with and for many black people in my career, and many of them were quite brilliant (and much more talented than I was). I am happy that they did not wait for some white liberal with a messiah complex to save them from their plight. I saw no difference in ability between them and their white counterparts, and I saw no need to give them any artificial advantages to help them advance in their careers. 90% of them were "privileged" to have been brought up in a two-parent home and most were dirt poor as children.

Programs that focus on race are racist, and they hurt the people they are designed to help.

One thing that is systemic is parents in poorer homes (many or most of whom are the only parent in the home) who did not do well in school when they were young now being no (or very little) help to their kids who are in school. This is a huge problem and, I believe, one of the reasons the cycle of poverty repeats. With our system rewarding unwed mothers with payments per child, it just perpetuates. I have no idea what the way out of this mess would be. But I do think as a society we should put aside all our arguments about why it happens, and do our best to devise a way to help break the cycle of poorly-educated children. Much easier said than done, when parents don't seem to care much, but it would be a huge step (IMO).

[Guisslapp]

Well, the high school I went to was 50% black, and I don't remember any teachers asking anyone to leave the room so the whites could be taught anything different than anyone else in the room. Heck, half of the teachers were black as well. I also remember them being given the same books as I was given to learn from (it's been a while, but I believe the books were just stacked at the back of the room and you were asked to grab one...so I don't think the books were different either). This was in the 1970s.

Whatever existed in the 1920s does not exist now...and has not existed for quite a while. The point of my post was to show it normally takes a couple of generations to escape poverty and create "privilege"....and only one generation to lose it. Any liberal programs that create bitterness and convince anyone that upward mobility is easy - or was easy for anyone in the past (black or white) - is a great disservice to those trying to move up.

If we stop treating these people as victims needing our help and telling them they need to be bitter, these "communities" will cease to exist in a couple of generations. I have worked with and for many black people in my career, and many of them were quite brilliant (and much more talented than I was). I am happy that they did not wait for some white liberal with a messiah complex to save them from their plight. I saw no difference in ability between them and their white counterparts, and I saw no need to give them any artificial advantages to help them advance in their careers. 90% of them were "privileged" to have been brought up in a two-parent home and most were dirt poor as children.

Programs that focus on race are racist, and they hurt the people they are designed to help.

Ok, so if your view is that the discrimination ended in your parents generation, then I assume that 50% of your classmates in the top 10% of your graduating class were black?

If not, any theories as to why?

[Guisslapp]

One thing that is systemic is parents in poorer homes (many or most of whom are the only parent in the home) who did not do well in school when they were young now being no (or very little) help to their kids who are in school. This is a huge problem and, I believe, one of the reasons the cycle of poverty repeats. With our system rewarding unwed mothers with payments per child, it just perpetuates. I have no idea what the way out of this mess would be. But I do think as a society we should put aside all our arguments about why it happens, and do our best to devise a way to help break the cycle of poorly-educated children. Much easier said than done, when parents don't seem to care much, but it would be a huge step (IMO).

I agree, but I think the idea that unwed mothers are rewarded for having children is overblown in conservative circles. There is never an economic reason to have children unless you run a farm, and then you might break even. That is not why unwed mothers are having children by in large.

[FriscoDog]

One thing that is systemic is parents in poorer homes (many or most of whom are the only parent in the home) who did not do well in school when they were young now being no (or very little) help to their kids who are in school. This is a huge problem and, I believe, one of the reasons the cycle of poverty repeats. With our system rewarding unwed mothers with payments per child, it just perpetuates. I have no idea what the way out of this mess would be. But I do think as a society we should put aside all our arguments about why it happens, and do our best to devise a way to help break the cycle of poorly-educated children. Much easier said than done, when parents don't seem to care much, but it would be a huge step (IMO).

I think it goes back to personal accountability and parenting (or lack thereof). I had a very similar high school experience as dawgynwindow above. With my own children, I have seen first hand so many opportunities for ALL students who are struggling in a particular subject to have tutoring, extra credit, etc. to help with their education. The opportunity to succeed is there and equal in the classroom for students. CHOOSING to take advantage of those opportunities or parents (even single ones) stressing importance of education is what makes the difference. Failure to take advantage of these opportunities regardless of race makes life more difficult for anyone.

[techman05]

Why do you think your coworker had “his pants around his ankles”? And in a society that wasn’t white dominant, would that matter?

My client was speaking about people of her own race who do not carry themselves with any pride. She explained that the culture inside the jail house is where a lot of this started. She said she asks people all the time why they want to act like people who are incarcerated. She knows they aren’t helping their own cause. When they question the behavior of people of their same race, I take people seriously. She wasn’t about to blame white people for something she knows is a choice and could be changed if people cared.

[PawDawg]

I agree, but I think the idea that unwed mothers are rewarded for having children is overblown in conservative circles. There is never an economic reason to have children unless you run a farm, and then you might break even. That is not why unwed mothers are having children by in large.

Is it because they don't receive free contraception?

[techman05]

Is it because they don't receive free contraception?

You mean abstinence? That is the Conley free contraception. Everything else cost somebody something.

[DawgyNWindow]

Ok, so if your view is that the discrimination ended in your parents generation, then I assume that 50% of your classmates in the top 10% of your graduating class were black?

If not, any theories as to why?

I honestly don't remember.

But, I can tell you that the black kids that tried to study and achieve something in school were unmercifully bullied by the black kids who were not interested in any of that. I believe they decided they were not going to play along and were going to make life a living hell for any that did.

Those that did were accused of "acting white" or being uncle Toms.

There ya go. I was there and saw it happen. Don't need any theories.

[DawgyNWindow]

I think it goes back to personal accountability and parenting (or lack thereof). I had a very similar high school experience as dawgynwindow above. With my own children, I have seen first hand so many opportunities for ALL students who are struggling in a particular subject to have tutoring, extra credit, etc. to help with their education. The opportunity to succeed is there and equal in the classroom for students. CHOOSING to take advantage of those opportunities or parents (even single ones) stressing importance of education is what makes the difference. Failure to take advantage of these opportunities regardless of race makes life more difficult for anyone.

Here are some ideas to end the cycle of poverty.

You get to have one child on public assistance. The second one comes with a tube tying operation. Someone on public assistance with numerous children is just filling the jails and causing misery for generations to follow.

Any kind of financial public assistance must be accompanied by education (and not the liberal type either...I am talking about English, Math, Geography, writing, CAPITALISM, etc.) and public service. This includes section 8 housing, medicaid or any direct payments. It starts in the home.

End the marriage penalty in the tax code.

School vouchers. Let the poor schools fail, or just be there to house the malcontents so they don't disrupt those trying to get ahead. We spend a fortune on education and get nothing back.

For non-violent charges, stop locking people up while awaiting trial so they can continue planning for their futures. Create a minimum sentence for not showing up for trial that is in excess of the penalty for being found guilty. If you go 10 years without further incidents (after being found guilty of a non-violent crime), seal those records so they don't hinder someone from being a productive citizen in the future.